Lee TL with "normal" sizin and lubin

[TCLouis]

For all of the anti Lee mold folks hit your ignore button.

Now for the rest of you, have any of you used one of the tumble lube bullets with your normal sizing and lube?

[mroliver77]

It worked ok on one bullet for me that was barely touched by the die. Another that needed considerable sizing almost lost the grooves altogether. I had known this when I purchased the mold and figured for low power loads with a tight fitting bullet very little lube would work well enough.
They sized way more off one side than the other.One side had no grooves while the other had strong grooves. I never figured out why. I wondered if this would happen if fired full sized. I recovered some from the bullet trap and found they had sized evenly . FWIW. Jay

[Cayoot]

It worked ok on one bullet for me that was barely touched by the die.

How did this boolit take the lube? Did you find it would take (and hold) soft lube better than hard? Or the other way around?

Was there any sign of leading in your bore? Or did you restrict your use of this boolit to low velocity loads?

Inquiring minds want to know!

[Willbird]

I tried it, the story was I had a 1911 with a very tight chamber, it would not run .454 boolits, so I lube sized them, the problem with alox was the lube would jump back out of the grooves after sizing, like little worms :-)

I finally sent the mold back to Lee, they made some noises but replaced it with a normal mold,

for me the whole TL concept is a dud, for some it is a miracle. I found the boolits harder to sort for proper fillout, and the lube on the noses made seting depth get deeper, and by the time I cleaned the noses I could have paper patched the dang things for how much time I had in them.

I posted the whole story above on the Chas-list and man some folks came unglued at the idea of sizing and lubing TL boolits in a lube sizer, but if they need sized, might as well lube them while they are in there I figuired.

Bill

[Buckshot]

..............I think Lee has changed their TL machining design, I don't know when they did or if it was across the board. I have a couple TL designs and the drive bands are distinctly flat with sloping sides. At the range on day there was a box of odds and ends for sale an amongst the stuff was a 6 cavity with handles for their 148gr DEWC of TL design.

When I went to use it for the first time (having gone through all the Leementing it needed, which was minimal), I was dismayed to find only the top and bottom band to be the well defined sloping flat topped bands. The balance being rounded. I re-cleaned and smoked the cavities. Same thing. Cranked the heat up on the pot and went to casting as fast as I could. Same thing.

Cooled the blocks and got my magnifying glass out and closely inspected the cavities. The bands were all rounded except for the top and bottom. I had beforehand bought the 2 cavity version of that boolit design and it cast flat topped slope sided sharply defined bands.

By their very design, I don't suppose that a TL boolit could stand much sizing anyway. Maybe .002" or so. That's .001" all the way around the slug. I can't recall ever trying to size a TL Lee.

I do know that for target type loads that I've shot in my K38, the TL design surely carries more then enough lube! If used for such an application like that, I wouldn't be afraid to sizem down a bit.

BTW, all 350 rounds of 38 Special I'm carrying to Winnemucca is loaded with Lee TL, 148's. The normal grease grooved 148WC seems to be more accurate, but the TL's are accurate enough and thier lubing simplicity is sure fast and simple! I don't have to siz'em.

...............Buckshot

[mroliver77]

<How did this boolit take the lube? Did you find it would take (and hold) soft lube better than hard? Or the other way around?

Was there any sign of leading in your bore? Or did you restrict your use of this boolit to low velocity loads?

Inquiring minds want to know! >

I run my lube sizer fairly warm trying to get good lube filling. It filled good on the TL boolit. I make my lube stiff as I hate lube migrating everywhere. It did not stay in the TL design very well.I think the Alox is the key to making lube stick on. I did not try any softer lube. If I remember correctly I got no leading. I only shot them in a 1917 45 ACP revolver and it never leads.(Well Willbird gave me some bullets he bought and had trouble with and they leaded the whole bore.) I was so impressed with that mold I have no idea what become of it. I gave up the TL idea fairly quickly. Having recently purrchased a Star sizer it is faster I believe than TL. Jay

[Cayoot]

<Having recently purrchased a Star sizer it is faster I believe than TL. Jay

I am thinking strongly about a star, just because so many people say how much faster they are. Can you answer a few questions?

1. Do they seat gas checks like the lyman and RCBS do?

2. Are they hard and time consuming to adjust the lube dispensing function (so that lube only goes where it is supposed to go)?

3. I have ALOT of .38, 9mm, .41 and .45 boolits to lube, right now I have 3 Lyman 450s (and was planning to get another) so that they are always set up for each caliber. I do this in an attempt to save time in changing sizer dies. Is the Star fast enough that it is worth the cost? I know the sizer dies are about 3 times the cost, but that is a one time purchase and doesn't bother me that much. What I'm wondering is, is it fast enough to make up for me not changing dies on the other sizers? Also, is it fast enough to be worth it (to you) in price over the other main brands?

4. Does it use nose punches? Or does it press on the base?

I hope you don't mind me being so inquisitive, but I would gladly purchase the sizer and a few dies/nose punches if it is worth it. I would then save the 2 lymans for rifle boolits and experimental stuff.


Thanks!

[Willbird]

The Star is very fast to change over, I use an adjustible parallal to measure the distance between the base punch and the top of the die once I have it setup, rather I put the adj parallal in there and slide it open until it is tight, and lock the screw then measure it with a micrometer, I will get the size of parallal needed and post it later.

http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNSRIT?PARTPG=NNLMK3&PMPXNO=1757346

you can push the boolits nose first into the die or base first, but nose first you only need one punch for many sizes and shapes. with the method I explained above you can change over to another boolit and be running in literally minutes.

The lube part is much nicer than a lyman, it simply does not squirt all over unless you put a boolit in backwards, then it makes a booger of lube on that boolit and inside the die that is gone with the next couple of boolits. The machine only puts lube pressure into the die when the handle is at the very end of it's travel, the boolit IS moving very slowly but I would estimate the distance it travels once the high pressure lube cyl starts it's work is about the width of a grease groove.

the holes for lube are on .125" centers and most dies have 3 sets, the holes are nicely counterbored to fit a 7-1/2 shot to plug them, if you had a bunch of differant lube groove numbers you would have to adjust that to change boolits. But many boolits are just one groove.

it is so fast you won't belive it. you simply place a boolit in the die and pull the handle, repeat over and over, the lube res. has a die spring (or an air cyl if you buy that setup) to maintain lube pressure and you have to wind it up every now and then but I have done over 1000 on a stick of lube so I bet it doesnt need wound often (I have the air cyl) if your handy you can make your own air cyl setup.

Veral Smith says it does gas checks just fine. I have not tried gas checks yet as I bought it for pistol boolits and I don't thus far use GC on them.

[Cayoot]

WOW Willbird! This thing sounds like just what I need. I had read some peoples comments that the dies are a pain to get adjusted and that the lube is hard to adjust also.

Does the sizer die come with the 7 1/2 shot or do I need to obtain that myslef?


I will get the size of parallal needed and post it later.

I would really appreciate that! I'll order it as soon as you post it. I can see that I'm going to become a STAR user very soon!

Thank you very much.

[TCLouis]

Thanx all.

I guess I should have included one more quetion in this . . .

For 30, 38, and 44 calibers what are the as cast diameters of your bullets in an alloy something kinda like wheel weights?

[azrednek]

have any of you used one of the tumble lube bullets with your normal sizing and lube?

Following a freind's advice I cast a bunch of 38 cal 148gr double end wadcutters in the tumble lube design. I tumble lubed, dried overnight, sized them to .358 and tumble lubed again. All the extra work did absolutly nothing to improve accuracy and shot the same as the ones I just tumble lubed and loaded. My friend is simply a better shooter than me but swears the extra steps is his key to some excellent shooting. Can't argue with him ,he is one of the best handgun shooters I know and if it works for him I'm not going to tell him he's wasting his time.

Sizing the TL slugs to .358 just seemed to drive the lube from the bearing surface into the grooves. Don't know what may have been left of the grooves had I sized to .357 but sizing to .358 barely touched the slug. I ran a few hundred of the same slug through my RCBS sizer using a hard lube with heat. The groups seemed to open up a little more compared to the tumble lubed slugs but it could have been my shooting that was to blame.

Don't let me discourage you, give it a try, it might work well for you. If you have the time and equipment try both lubing methods with slugs from the same mix and compare your target group size. I recently cast some 148 gr hollow base wadcutters and I'm going to tumble lube a batch and compare the group size to those sized and lubed with a hard lube.

[fecmech]

Cayoot--They come with some 7.5 shot in the die package. I comfortably size approx 1000 bullets per hour with my star. I drop the bullets in nose first so there are no top punch issues. They do spoil you though, I still use the Lyman for my .44's cause I don't shoot a lot of them and that seems to take forever! Nick

[Cayoot]

WOW!!!

Ok! I'm Sold! Where is the best place to buy a Star? Do I need to go through the manufacturer (direct), or is there a distributer who would give a better deal? (Yes, we have an ffl, so I can go directly through distributer).

Thanks!

[Willbird]

I would go thru Magma the mfg. and I would order whatever dies I needed in the same order. The accesory they refer to as a "shovel Handle" is well worth the money, and when it gets cold again you will want the heated base. Also ask for a half dozen spare O-rings for where the die goes in.

buy the best, buy it all, and and only cry once :-)

Bill

[Cayoot]

Thanks Willbird. There is a Star on ebay right now. I'm going to try to win that, if I fail in my attempt, I will be contacting Magma...these sound great!

Did you ever come up with that parallel size?

Thanks a big bunch!

[Willbird]

I looked at all the sizes I had written down, all 3 of them are between 1" and 1.25" that would be for 429421, Lee 158 RF, and a Saeco 122 grain 9mm roundnose, What you are adjusting is the position of the grease groove, so if you look at the distance from the groove to the base in the range of boolits you want to size you will get an idea how much difference there is.

The San Diego Stars are reported to be better than a Magma one (By San Diego Star sellers anyway hehe) , I got tired of bidding on them on Ebay only to see the sizer and die(s) of unknown quality go for 95% or more of new price.

The only problem I have had with mine is the upper O-ring that seals on the sizer die wants to leap out into the recess in the die when changing dies, this requires some twisting and cursing to get the die out. I have been going to clean the o-ring groove out good and glue the o-ring in there with some RTV black silicone so it seals but cannot leave the groove.

Bill

[Cayoot]

The San Diego Stars are reported to be better than a Magma one (By San Diego Star sellers anyway hehe) , I got tired of bidding on them on Ebay only to see the sizer and die(s) of unknown quality go for 95% or more of new price.

Ok, so there areTWO manufacturers of the Star? Magma and somewhere in San Diego?

Or am I missing something?

How do I look into these San Diego Stars?

[Willbird]

Star Machine works invented and orig. mfg. the star sizer and the star loader, They were in San Diego, so orig mfg. star loaders and sizers are commonly referred to as "san diego" models, Magma bought the rights to the lubesizer and they now mfg. it.

Another fellow bought the rights to the star loader.

To determine if the one on ebay is a san diego if that is not stated ask the seller.

Bill

[Cayoot]

I would go thru Magma the mfg. and I would order whatever dies I needed in the same order. The accesory they refer to as a "shovel Handle" is well worth the money, and when it gets cold again you will want the heated base. Also ask for a half dozen spare O-rings for where the die goes in.

buy the best, buy it all, and and only cry once :-)

Bill

WOW Bill,
I just called Magma and ordered everything...btw, thanks for the tip on the O-rings, the person taking the order told me that if, while removing the die, I feel the die hanging on, just give it a twist, that should save the O-ring.

However, I've been around me a most of my life :wink: , I know that I have an incredible ability to break the unbreakable. So I ordered them anyways!

But WOW! one sizer, 5 dies, shovel handle and air feed (and 1/2 dz extra O-rings)= $500!

But I did get to see a video of the Star in use....I'm sold. It looks as useful and worth the price as my progressive loader.

The only complaint that I have is that I was told that they have a 6 week backlog!

[Willbird]

How well I know your pain hehe, my credit card was so hot after ordering mine that I had to leave it out to cool for several hours before putting it in my wallet. I got lucky I guess and got the last one on the shelf.

Now you have time to cook some felix lube and make some molds for making sticks (they can be solid for the star no hole needed)

majestic mountian sage http://www.thesage.com/ has many felix ingredients from one place,

I am running LBT blue but will eval the felix with the goal of using it for at least my own boolits (I want to sell a few)

Bill