S&W Ghost ring sight blade

[Matt3357]

This is my S&W 686.
http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss143/Matt3357/P2270226.jpg

I read about a ghost ring sight blade for revolvers and was very intrigued by the idea. I did a lot of searching and the best thing I could come up with was a guy making them for rugers and other rifles. No one else makes anything for S&W as far as I know. I know one of the big draw backs is that normally you have to break the screw in order to remove the sight blade which would eat into profits of anyone trying to sell them, but I have come up with a solution for that. I designed the blade in AutoCAD and had it cut on a laser. It took two tries but I got one that looks amazing and I hope shoots as good. I am a bit concerned that it might be a bit high. I guess I'll find out in a couple of weeks when I get back home to my Dad's range. Tell me what you think.

http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss143/Matt3357/P2270228.jpg
http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss143/Matt3357/P2270233.jpg
http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss143/Matt3357/P2270241.jpg
http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss143/Matt3357/P2270247.jpg

Thanks,
Matt

[fecmech]

It looks good Matt but I think you are right it may be too high.

[358wcf]

Matt,
You've done well!!!
That sight should be just the thing for those of us with OLD EYES!
Yep, it looks a bit high, but I'll be the next one will be RIGHT ON-
Keep us posted on your success-
Any initial stock offering to members? This thing will sell!

Chuck
358wcf [smilie=1:[smilie=1:[smilie=1:

[kingstrider]

Looks too high and the aperature is a little large for me. But once you get it figured out I'd probably be interested in a couple of them!

[Matt3357]

Ok so I have done some drawing using suggestions from here. Let me know what you guys think.

Original Notch
http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss143/Matt3357/SWsightnotch.jpg

Current 7/32" Hole High
http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss143/Matt3357/SWhigh7-32.jpg

Lower 7/32" Hole
http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss143/Matt3357/SWSightLow7-32.jpg

Lower 3/16" Hole
http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss143/Matt3357/SWLow3-16.jpg

The blue is a representation of the front sight blade for hole size comparison, of course it will look smaller because of distance from the rear sight blade but it gives you an idea. Unfortunately on my 686, the front blade is fixed so what I have is what I got. If anyone knows what thread size the windage adjustment screw is, I could foresee these things being pretty cheap to reproduce. Please give me your feed back.

Thanks,
Matt

[imashooter2]

I've wanted to try this system for action shooting for some time now. I wrote to the "One Ragged Hole" owner and asked if he planned to make anything for a S&W but got no response. If you can bring this home at reasonable cost, I'd be very interested to try one of yours. I think the 7/32 low would work best for my 686 and 625 game guns...

[Matt3357]

I wrote to them as well, with zero feedback, so I decided to take matters into my own hands. What kind of price would you guys consider reasonable?

Thanks,
Matt

[dubber123]

I am pretty sure I saw the windage screw and nut in the Brownells catalog, if you have trouble finding them. I don't think they were too costly. Neat project.

[Matt3357]

dubber123,

Yeah, I know I can buy the screw and nut separate from the rear blade but I don't know the thread count and screw size to thread my own pieces. If anyone could tell me that I'd be golden.

Thanks,
Matt

[kingstrider]

I wrote to them as well, with zero feedback, so I decided to take matters into my own hands. What kind of price would you guys consider reasonable?

Thanks,
Matt

The reason I never ordered from ORH was they were $25 a set which seems high for a little piece of metal. If you could get them down to $20 or even $15 shipped I'm sure you'd sell a lot of them.

[Matt3357]

The biggest issue I am going to have to overcome is the threaded barrel on the base of the sight blade. If I could reproduce that and not have to buy a new sight blade to cannibalize, my costs would drop considerably. So how many people would be interested in some for $20 shipped (ORH is $30 shipped)?

Matt

[imashooter2]

I'd buy one to try at that price and a couple more if it works as well as I hope...

[DanOH]

I think I would buy one for $20.00 shipped.
Combined with a fiber optic front sight I bet it would be really slick.
dan

[Changeling]

Matt just a thought, couldn't you adapt that to single actions also.

[Matt3357]

I don't see any reason why not as long as they have an adjustable sight similar to my 686. I have never seen one so some one else would have to answer that question. Right now my only hold up is finding a tap for the windage adjustment screw threads. Without that, my cost per piece would go up by about $10. If anyone knows where I can get an odd sized tap like that, please let me know.

Thanks,
Matt

[fecmech]

I don't see any reason why not as long as they have an adjustable sight similar to my 686. I have never seen one so some one else would have to answer that question. Right now my only hold up is finding a tap for the windage adjustment screw threads. Without that, my cost per piece would go up by about $10. If anyone knows where I can get an odd sized tap like that, please let me know.

Thanks,
Matt

Have you tried Brownells??

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

Matt, I have a Ruger Blackhawk (Single action) if you wanna stop by one afternoon and take a look at the rear sight.

[Matt3357]

Thanks, I am still on the search for the thread size and count for the windage screw. I called S&W today and tried to talk to an engineer there, but they were on their lunch break as well. I'll call tomorrow afternoon and see what I can fined out. Brownells does have a huge selection of taps in Standard sizes. Lets just hope something can be gleaned from S&W. I know Weigand makes an aftermarket sight for them, so someone else knows what it is. Lets just hope I can get my hands on a tap for it.

Thanks,
Matt

[imashooter2]

You can always buy a replacement screw and measure/count threads...

[Matt3357]

The problem with that is the screw is so fine, unless you are absolutely perfect with your measurements and count, then the numbers are way off. I did try this with my current screw, but the answers I came up with did not match anything standard, I checked metric and came up with nothing, so I'm still at square one until I get a chance to call S&W.

Thanks,
Matt

[Changeling]

Matt I wish I could answer your question, however no one seems to know. Your best bet would be to try and contact S&W again. If you are told they are unavailable again leave your phone number and hours of availability for a return call to you.
If you CAN find out the thread I'm sure there are companies that could make you a tap.
Good luck and I wish you the best, it seems to me your idea has considerable merit.

[bobthenailer]

if you get it going ! i would also like to buy a few rear sights!

[muzzleblast]

I am interested also.

[Matt3357]

Well, I have one more mid-term tomorrow morning then I'll be free all next week for spring break, besides work. I should be able to do some major foot work on this next week hopefully.

Thanks,
Matt

[Slow Elk 45/70]

Yup, I'll be in line for 2-3, looks like a great Idea, let us know if you are successful

[BOOM BOOM]

Hi,
very interesting.

[imashooter2]

According to one of the more knowledgeable members over on the S&W forum the thread is a 3-80.

ETA: Looks like they are available commercially...

http://www.tapsndies.com/catalog/item/6846094/6820290.htm

[Matt3357]

Oh dang, I never even thought about asking over there. I am even a member. Doh! I guess I've been so busy that I forgot about them. Thanks! Looks like this might actually kick off then. I will get a few different ones made up and get a range report next weekend hopefully. A big thanks to you imashooter2!

Thanks,
Matt

[Highland Drifter]

Matt,
I tried to contact the "One Ragged Hole" people several years ago about an S&W sight blade, also with no responce. I would be very interested in a couple of these. The low 7/32" looks good to me.

Brian

[missionary5155]

Greetings
I pulled out my 19-5 3.5" and I think the 3/16 hole would be the best on mine.

[Matt3357]

Well I found a tap on Brownells, so look for a product in a few weeks after I get some time to do some testing and get some money for the initial investment. It looks like they will run around $22 shipped. I have spring break this week so I'll be working on it all week. Some testing next weekend and maybe some inventory by the end of the month. What are the rules of selling before you have to become a vendor?

Thanks,
Matt

[imashooter2]

If you are going with the 7/32 low, I want the first one. Let me know where and how for payment. :)

[Matt3357]

Oh and this comes with a replacement screw. I was wondering about the nut. That you can use from the old blade right? Or would a new nut be wanted?

Thanks,
Matt

[Three44s]

For the sum of $22 ...... I'd be very interested .........

I have the small appeture of the set that ORH sends installed on a 9.5" Super Redhawk ...... and use it with the Ruger gold bead painted black ........

It's a DEAD NUTZ outfit!

Three 44s

[imashooter2]

Oh and this comes with a replacement screw. I was wondering about the nut. That you can use from the old blade right? Or would a new nut be wanted?

Thanks,
Matt

The kits usually come with a screw and nut. Depending on the stake job, sometimes the nuts can be hard to get off the screw nub.

[BruceB]

Gents;

Everyone on this thread is missing the origin, intent and THEORY of a "ghost ring" sight.

Why do you think it's called a "ghost ring"? It's because a REAL ghost ring is a RIFLE sight, mounted as close to the eye as possible, and with as thin a 'ring" as possible, and as large an aperture as possible, so that it literally appears as a thin gray blur around the front sight....a "ghost" in the field of view. It minimizes the amount of target picture that it obstructs, and the only concern to the shooter is the front sight. A true ghost ring sight is one of the fastest iron sights ever devised, and the accuracy doesn't suffer much if the shooter is familiar with the sight. I refer you to the "battle sight" on the #4 Mk 1/2 Lee Enfields (not the over-simplified two-range sight, but the more-elaborate adjustable type) for a decent example of the ghost ring. It has a bit more ring thickness than ideal, because it's a combat sight, but it still demonstrates the principle rather well.

I see references here to using a 3/16"aperture, or whatever... I have modified Garand and M14 sights to use a 3/16" hole FOUR INCHES from my eye, and they work wonderfully well. The same-diameter hole at three feet from the eye is just an impediment to easy aiming.

Putting an aperture sight on a revolver presents a hole out at arm's length, through which we still have to align the front sight and target. It actually OBSCURES more of the target than a conventional Patridge sight! It is most certainly the farthest thing from a "ghost ring" that I can imagine.

The utility of such a sight completely escapes me.

[Matt3357]

Thanks shooter, I will go ahead and include the nut.


Matt

[Matt3357]

Dang I would not want to meet the guy who has 3 foot arms, he'd be the size of a gorilla:kidding:;-)

[Matt3357]

Ok so, I have come up with yet another design change that I like the most out of all of them. I installed it on my gun tonight but I haven't had time to take pictures yet. It is a version of the 7/32" low. Basically the only difference is the horizontal metal is about half the height reducing the obstruction of the target. I compared both designs and decided to do initial testing with this one. I will have pictures and a full report after the weekend.

Thanks,
Matt

[Three44s]

Gents;

.................................................. .....................


The utility of such a sight completely escapes me.


My OHR is the 7/32" appeture and I use it in conjunction with a Ruger front bead painted black on a Super Redhawk wearing a 9.5" barrel.

It works for me very well.

A neighbor bought the set from ORH and kept the 9/32" appeture that comes with the set and gave me the smaller one. If I thought I needed the larger one, I'd buy another set to have it. I have not seen the need for my "fifty something" eyes ... when that changes, I'll make the switch.

Regards

Three 44s

[Matt3357]

Sorry for the long time between posts. I have been super busy with homework I was supposed to do over my spring break. I have some time tonight so I'll post pictures of the latest design. I have one more tweak I need to make to it and they should be ready. Now to gather the necessary tools and we'll get busy. I hope you guys are all still interested.

Thanks,
Matt

[lamina1982]

I have been looking for one for my newly aquired 4"500. Id definitely want one!!!

[Three44s]

Speaking for myself,

Your schooling comes first ..... no need for an apology!


Best regards

Three 44s

[Matt3357]

Alright guys I am having the final revision cut today. I will have to wait until I get my tax return to purchase the rest of the tools and make the first purchase of parts. But here is the good news. I would like a couple of people to take them for a test drive and let me know how they like them and if there is anything they would change. I would offer the first 5 people the sight blade of their choice for $10 shipped just for product development. The catch is, it will be a couple of weeks before I get them out. So if you can wait that long and are interested, shoot me a PM. I will post pictures of the final blade shape as soon as I can.

Thanks,
Matt

[Matt3357]

3/16" final revision
http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss143/Matt3357/3-16final.jpg (http://s570.photobucket.com/albums/ss143/Matt3357/?action=view&current=3-16final.jpg)

7/32" final revision
http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss143/Matt3357/7-32final.jpg (http://s570.photobucket.com/albums/ss143/Matt3357/?action=view&current=7-32final.jpg)

Ladder sight Prototype
http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss143/Matt3357/ladder.jpg (http://s570.photobucket.com/albums/ss143/Matt3357/?action=view&current=ladder.jpg)

[McKenzie]

PM sent.

[imashooter2]

Like I said in post #32, I want the first 7/32 low you make. PM sent.

[Matt3357]

Sorry for the long delay fellas. Unfortunately all of my time is being consumed by my school final projects. I have finals next week and then I should get some time to make them up. I have all of the profiles cut out, I just need to make the barrels, attach, and clean them up. Don't give up yet, I will come through once things settle down.

Thanks for your patience,
Matt

[Shootingstar]

Matt, I'm very interested , one for shure! may be more. I have many Smiths.

[Matt3357]

Alright fellas, I just ordered the tap and drills. I'll order some screws tomorrow so when I do finally get some time to breathe, I'll get some made up. It will still be a couple of weeks before I have any final products. Please bear with me.

Thanks,
Matt

[Matt3357]

Sorry about this being so late in the game, but I've been a bit busy to say the least. Here is the list of the four guys that responded right away wanting to do a review for me.

McKenzie
lamina1982
Gray Fox
imashooter2

Sorry if I mislead anyone. These guys have helped me from the start and I will get them done as soon as school calms down.

Thanks,
Matt

[imashooter2]

School is first and I completely understand how that can take all your time. Don't worry about it. I'll still be here when you're ready.

[lamina1982]

Thanks again Matt, and good luck

[McKenzie]

Matt,

No hurry. Tend to the school first.

McKenzie

[Bear4570]

Put me down for a one of each of the round hole.

[Matt3357]

Alright fellas the first samples are done. Those of you who were listed above will receive emails with payment information. And as soon as I get some feed back from them, I will make any changes necessary and start producing them and selling them in the classifieds.

Thanks for all of your patience!

Matt

[lamina1982]

Got my sight installed on the model 500. Now just have to shoot it to try it out. I'd like to get a fiber optic front sight first.
http://www.handgunhunt.com/photopost/data/500/500hs.jpg?4110

[Matt3357]

lamina1982,

When you find a company that makes them, let me know. I would like the same on my 686.

Also, for those that have concerns changing out your own sight blade. I am going on vacation tonight through Sunday. When I get back, I will write up a recommended installation technique with pictures and everything. Hopefully we will get our laser CNC up and running here at work again and I'll have a bunch of the special screw drivers cut out.

Thanks,
Matt

[lamina1982]

Well Ill probably go with Hi Viz or williams firesights-which evers cheapest. Mine has a pinned front sight.

[imashooter2]

Well Ill probably go with Hi Viz or williams firesights-which evers cheapest. Mine has a pinned front sight.

Might I recommend SDM? Hi Viz has a round top profile. I like a square top blade.

[Firebricker]

Matt, When you start cranking them out put me on the list. I like the sight pic lamina posted.
Your work look's good. FB

[Matt3357]

Anyone get a chance to shoot theirs? I know range time can be hard to find. I would like a bit of feedback before I start making them.

Thanks,
Matt

[crabo]

I have a rear sight that will not move. It is jacked all the way to one side. I got the gun with the sight that way.

Would the new sight blade and screw fix this?

[imashooter2]

Crabo,
I believe and new screw and nut would fix your problem. One of Matt's blades would make for interesting experimentation though.

Matt,
I've managed to get to the range once for an ICORE match since your package got here. I confess that I was not eager to jump into a match with the aperture before I had a bit of range time with it. ;) I do have it mounted and my regular shooting bud and I are working on a day off to go to the range. I hope to have something to report soon.

[crabo]

imashooter2, I've got a 4" 686 that I usually shoot steel with. That should make for a good trial of the ghost ring blade.

I don't normally have the red dot on it, but I was working on some loads. I have a fiber optic ready to go.

Matt, what do I need to do to get one to try out?

[AzShooter]

Matt when you are in production I would like to order two of the low mount sights. My old gunsmith made them years ago but has passed away. I already know they work real well for steel speed shooting.

[Matt3357]

Gentlemen,

As soon as I get some feed back from my original testers, I will set up some kind of system. These by no means will be "mass" produced, and the limiting factor of selling them will be the overhead for the screw and nut assembly. Until I get some capital built up, I won't be able to order a significant amount.

Back to the system. I am thinking about taking a list of names so people will get them first come first serve. I wouldn't ask for payment until I get them manufactured and I think the price will be $25 a piece. Payment methods will be money order or Paypal.

I guess I can go ahead and start a list, but please know that it will be a couple weeks. I want to get some feedback before I start making them and selling them for full price. I want to know I am making the best product I can.

Shoot me a PM with what size you would like and how many. I will post the list and update it every couple of days.

Thanks,
Matt

P.S. I do have some good news. I mentioned before how the electrodes burnt out in the laser CNC I had these cut on here at work. Well, they are actually spending money and having them replaced. As soon as I get some feedback and make any changes, I will have my buddy cut enough blades and enough removal tools so I can make these until I turn 40, or at least til the end of the year.

[crabo]

I'm in, 7/32 whenever you get around to it. This is for the kit, right?

[Gray Fox]

Matt:

I have the one you sent mounted on my 625 .45 ACP Mountain Gun and hope to finally get to the range tomorrow. I'll post results and impressions if I do. GF

[Matt3357]

Gotcha down Crabo. Yes it is for the kit. If they get the laser fixed in time, I will supply the tool as well.

Thanks,
Matt

[Highland Drifter]

I'm in for a 7/32. Thank you for taking up this project.

Brian

[imashooter2]

I gotta get out and shoot this thing...

http://imashooter2.com/pictures/app-760.jpg

http://imashooter2.com/pictures/app-close-600.jpg

[lamina1982]

I only had 4 shells left loaded for the 500 and only 3 went off-damn primer. So I had a very light shoot with on fri- Definitely way better than the notch rear. Once I get the fiber optic front sight I bet it will really shine Then. I was 110% SATISFIED WITH THIS SIGHT!! Great work and fills a nitch were the one ragged hole doesnt fill with SW people. Thanks again glad I got in early and once can afford fiber optic front Ill post more feedback.
THanks again MATT

[imashooter2]

Well I got to the range today and put 100 rounds through the 7/32 aperture equipped 686. Remember that this report is with only 100 rounds downrange. I have lots more shooting to do before I complete my evaluation.

I had trouble with fine accuracy on single action Bullseye type shooting. I couldn't get the hang of the sight picture and there was a lot of horizontal stringing.

For double action shooting at 15 yards it was very fast to acquire sight picture and hang one or two on a sheet of 8.5X11.

One of the earlier posters opined that the aperture would block off a lot of peripheral view. Just the opposite is true. You can see a lot more around the sights than with a standard blade. Now I'm wondering if the 3/16 aperture wouldn't be a better size than the 7/32...

So, the jury is still out for me. Right now, I don't trust my sight picture enough to take the close shots by hard cover or no shoots at ICORE or USPSA. I think it would rock for an iron sight steel gun though. Very fast when the targets are large and great precision isn't needed.

[redale1]

Matt, Just foundthis thread. Don't know if you still make these but I want some for my guns if you do. This seems to be what I need to be able to use my handguns again. Let me know.

[gagunguy]

Has any one heard from Matt or purchased one of these sights?

I have 3 S&W revolvers I'm wanting to put these on.
I've tried to contact Matt direct but with no success.

Some please help, this is the only true lead I've found on such a sight.

gagunguy@aol dot com

[imashooter2]

The sample I got is no longer on my revolver. As the previous report stated, it was good for really fast rough shooting, but I never could get accurate with it.

[Tatume]

Here's another alternative that might be of interest:

http://www.brownells.com/handgun-parts/sights/rear-sights/s-w-v-notched-rear-sight-kits-prod22514.aspx

[sixshot]

Not trying to horn in on someone else's business but if they are not suppying them maybe I can help. I have been making them for quite a while but I don't furnish the replacement screws, you have to get that from Brownells. I just sell the peep sights. I know I have 2-3 available right now. If I've put this is the wrong place I can move it.

Dick

[fireguy976]

Hi Dick,

im looking to change sights on my 686.

would be interested in seeing what you have.

can reply to my email fireguy1@sympatico.ca

cheers
Ken

[Vaquero gambler]

Did anything happen with the development of this sight blade. I'v been away for a bit and may have missed any recent updates.