Just How Many Rounds Have You Fired

[45 2.1]

I'm curious, after reading some posts of members telling their experiences. Just how many shots have you fired in your lifetime. Yep, you can count them all, as long as it was a cartridge of some kind. Don't worry if you think its not believeable, just put it down.

[imashooter2]

I started shooting when I was 5 years old... how the heck would I know? Whatever my number is, I'm sure it's light compared to many others.

[JSH]

I was at a little over 1K of cast bullets the end of march. That is not counting any full length gas checks and .22..........................
Jeff

[9.3X62AL]

No idea, really.......probably a couple hundred thousand or so, counting all kinds of cartridges and shells.

[BruceB]

Now, this is an interesting question, and it gave me some enjoyable flashbacks. Rather than a sum total which would be wildly inaccurate, I do remember a few specifics.

-The weekend my wife and I took our belt-fed MG42 "fishing" on a fly-out trip. We took two cases of 7.92mm surplus ammo, 1000 rounds each, and deep-sixed ALL of that mangled 2000 rounds of brass in a far-northern lake. Full-auto fun at its best!

-The two S&W Model 52s we used in Bullseye competition, which between them have logged (accurate figure) over 140,000 rounds of .38 Special, virtually all handloaded, all home-cast boolits. For every round of .38 fired, we fired at least three rounds of .22 (in the rimfire stage of the National Match Course, plus International Standard Pistol, Free Pistol, Rapid-fire Pistol, etc etc). I'd wager we fired close to a million rounds between us in competition pistol shooting over about twenty years' campaigning.

-The summer of 1961, Canadian Army rifle-coaching course, wherein I fired a scorebook-logged total of roughly 11,000 rounds of .303 British over three months of shooting. Still have the books somewhere, I believe.

-My relatively new Ruger 77 in 7.62x39, in which I fired over a thousand rounds of cast loads in the first three months I owned it, using over seventy different recipes at ten rounds per recipe.

- One of our two Old Model Super Blackhawks, which fired over 15,000 rounds before the US Gummint refused permission to bring it into the States with us...that's a LOT of full-power cast-boolit .44s!

How many rounds in total? Well into seven figures. We bought primers by the case-lot for many years, and in most years used numerous cases of 5,000 over a span of quite a few years. The large majority were for peestol ammo, but there were a LOT of rifle rounds, too, though mostly jacketed stuff. Only in about the last ten years have I gotten heavily into cast-bullet rifle work, and it's endlessly fascinating. Annual consumption now is running in the 5,000- to 10,000-round area. I reckon the 'novelty' will never wear off, at this late date.

[NVcurmudgeon]

I have been keeping track of total rounds fired in my guns since Aug.1, 1972.
The total, including today's trip to the range is 102,101. I don't deduct for shots fired by others from my guns, or add for what I've shot their guns. My best guess for the time before I started counting is about 30,000 rounds, for a lifetime total of upwards of 132,000. Son of a buck! At this trifling rate I probably won't run through my first million rounds before I am called to the great rifle range in the sky.

[Buckshot]

.............I know that for several years I've been going through about 5K large rifle primers a year. Maybe only 20K pistol primers (total, lrg and small) and maybe 30K (total) small rifle primers. My consumption of SP primers has gone WAY up since getting the K38 Smith.

When I first got my Whitworth muzzle loader I know in the first 9 months I fired a bit over 1600 rounds from it. I was keeping the empty cap tins and they each held 100 CCI and 250 RWS, so I had a solid idea!.

I guess I must be up about with Curmudgeon. Didn't seem like it was enough:-) but my heavy duty reloading and casting didn't take off until the early 80's. Yet for 25 years, it seems as though 5000+ per year would be a reasonably realistic figure.

..............Buckshot

[Junior1942]

Probably 500,000+ counting 22LR. Shooting has been my hobby for 50+ years. I have a SBH with at least 50,000 rounds through it. I have a T-C 7mm TCU with at least 100,000 rounds through it. It's still as accurate as the day I bought it some 25 years ago. Lately, I use it (4X scope) to bust clay pigeons at 150 yards. By the way, my shooting bench is on my front porch, my 25, 50, 75, 100, and 150 targets in my front yard. IOW, it's easy for me to shoot.

[fecmech]

I've been gun crazy since I was a kid,and have been shooting about 50 years. Maybe 80K+ shotgun ammo and 150-200K pistol ammo.
Ps. Buckshot--K-38's will do that to you, mine is my all time favorite and I'll never get rid of it.

[BCB]

I'm gonna estimate 70-90K rounds. If you count the military--Whoopie-Ding...BCB

[swheeler]

Not enough, but I'm still tryin' to scratch the itch!

[felix]

Max: 5K rounds big bore rifle pre college; 20K college 22 rifle team; 20K pistol 22 team in CT; 10K BR center-fire rifle; 10K big bore rifle after BR stint; 20K big bore pistol after BR stint. So, let's say: 100K absolutely, positively maximum in life time. Lately it has been no more than 1K per year. Most of my shooting has been in the venue of R&D topics rather than plinking to have fun, especially since my BR activity. I have not shot any kind of competition in the last 20 years. ... felix

[arkypete]

Bunches, lotza bunches.
Between qualifying, practicing, recon by fire, load testing, adjusting sights, hunting, competing, tinkering with cast bullets....lotza rounds.
Bought 50,000 Lyman 45 caliber gas checks 25 or so yours ago, used them up so that I'd feel good about buying 10,000 Hornady 45 caliber gas checks, which need to be reordered again.
I suspect that counting the 8 lb. cans of Bullseye, Unique, H-110, IMR 4831, IMR 4064, H-4831sc would be an equally accurate talley. Again I have no idea as to the numbers, a number of years ago a bunch of guys ordered in cases of 231 in the 4 (?) pound cans. I wore out a barrel on my Gold Cup and Python before I finished using up all that powder.
Jim

[Willbird]

well lets start with junior smallbore, 100 rounds a week for 4 months a year for 4 years, thats 6400 rounds. Then we get to junior high power, 40 a week for 3 months for 4 years, thats 2000 rounds of 30-06 and 308 before I was 18....tons and tons of 22, quite a bit of 45, 2-3 cases of 8mm, 3-4 cans of 7.62x54r spammo. I'm gonna just round it off to about 50,000 rounds between the time I fired my first shot until my 40th birthday in december 2004.

I'd like to double that number by the time I'm 45 and now that I live out of town.

Bill

[sundog]

Got a BB gun almost 50 years ago. Lots of BBs. Lots of'em, no way to count. And .22 pellets. Then .22 RF. Lots of'em. Used to shoot in an old sand pit when I was in grade school - went by myself - how many kids today do something like that? Then indoor small bore team and an indoor NRA youth club. Rifle team every day during the season, club on Friday nights. Lots of .22 RF, and no way to count. Lots of'em. The military, first Air Force, then Army. M14, M16, M203, .38, .45, 9mm, M60, Ma Deuce, 81mm mortar. An Air Force buddy, Larry Cunningham from New Mexico, got me into casting in the early 70s. Don't know if he should be blessed or cursed.... He and I would shoot quite often on the indoor range at lunch time, 50-100 rounds at a whack. Spent some time doing skeet, too. Lots of'em. I've shot more, and more regularly since I retired from the Army in 94 then when I was in. Right now it is regular for 88 rounds high power and 50 rounds (plus sighters) military bolt every month, but that's just for starters and add some practice sessions on top of that. There's small bore matches. There's plinking and load testing behind the barn, and my club range is just 8 miles from the house. It's normal to shoot another hunert or more rounds after a match, and sometimes a couple hunert pistol once or twice a month just for grins. I have some 06 brass that has like 10 or twelve loadings in a batch of about 300 pieces, other batches with varying amounts. My 35 Whelen alone has a batch of 150 that are already very well used. .45 acp brass in a batch of what started out at about 500 that the headstamp on many is gone. When I was in the Army (later years) I would go sometimes once or twice a week at lunch time and shoot pistol when the wx was nice. It was nothing to go rip off a hunert rounds.

No way to tell total.... But it sure has been fun! If I were guessing, 100K wouldn't even come close, but 250K might be in the ball park. sundog

[StarMetal]

Well I guess I fit in with you other fellows, shooting up into the hundred's of K's.When I first got my Ruger Blackhawk in 45LC I was shooting like 250 rounds of lead out of it a week and I did that for years. The thing that amazes me is with all the hundred's of K's of shooting we've all talked about here is that Carpetman still doubts that I loaded an astronomical amount of ammo on an old RCBS Jr press and wore it out.

Joe

[Scrounger]

Well I guess I fit in with you other fellows, shooting up into the hundred's of K's.When I first got my Ruger Blackhawk in 45LC I was shooting like 250 rounds of lead out of it a week and I did that for years. The thing that amazes me is with all the hundred's of K's of shooting we've all talked about here is that Carpetman still doubts that I loaded an astronomical amount of ammo on an old RCBS Jr press and wore it out.
Joe

CarpetMan doubts lots of things.

[Bass Ackward]

I'm curious, after reading some posts of members telling their experiences. Just how many shots have you fired in your lifetime. Yep, you can count them all, as long as it was a cartridge of some kind. Don't worry if you think its not believeable, just put it down.

Bob,

Was really thinking to put down a reasonbly accurate number otherwise why bother. Thought I had it too. Then I read someone counting 22LR. Oh my goodness, never considered that. Now shotgun too. Oh my God, this is nye on impossible.

What this really brings to mind, is that I could be sitting on a beach somewhere living the good life if I had just saved my money. Instead, I ..... well, .... I gotta go load some shells. I'll think on it somemore.

[Jumptrap]

I haven't got a clue. Not nearly so many as most of you. I do vividly recall that the first spring I was married to the first wife....I was laid off from work and it was the two of us....I was 20 and now past 47. I shot over 40,000 rounds of .22 rf through 3 guns....a Colt Challenger pissola, a Marlin 60, and a 10-22. I still have the 10-22 and the Colt...wore the marlin mechanism out. At least half and probably 2/3's went through the Colt. I was young had steady nerves and good eyes and I could kill starlings at 50 yards offhand with that pistol. I wore the original magazine out sliding it in and out so much and of course, the gun was well used when I bought it. I think it was made between '50 and '55, i got it in '77. I am sure I have put over 100K through it myself and am convinced you cannot wear out a 22 rimfire barrel! I'd estimate another 100K of centerfire have been shot at any rate, I'd say 250,000 rounds would be tops. I did have a life other than shooting.....raised 2 kids to adulthood, been through 2 marriages, raising 2 more children, carried a full time job, started and ran 2 businesses simultanioulsy, mowed 2+ acres of grass every week besides all the other stuff and man has to do. I have killed lots of game and yet, i'd bet I never fired over 4500 rounds at all the critters I ever shot....which includes birds and frogs and varmints. I know I have killed over 200 deer and that required maybe 210 shots. I killed and missed lots of squirrels and rabbits and grouse. But I sure had fun along the way.

[45 2.1]

Jump-
I can assure you, you can wear out to almost nothing, a barrel, 22 or otherwise, with lead bullets.

[mike in co]

you gotta be kidding me...........
powder burning rounds since about 1957.....start with a winchester 67a 22,then a marlin 60, military, ( do icbm's and crusie missles count ??? ), then 222 and a lee loader. now only buy power in cases and primers the same way. up till last yr did a bunch o shootin. ipsc, nra, club stuff in pistol, then cmp/dcm various mil rifle and br in rifles....throw in shot gun for three gun......( the last time i loaded 40 s&w it was a "batch" of 7000 rounds...).......not a clue just a lot in 48yrs of shooting......

all i can say is i'm planning on shooting a bunch more......

[carpetman]

Jump---One of the major reasons I took up casting was along the lines of what you said about .22 rimfires. I was contemplating taking up reloading and had bought a Lyman Reloading Manual to read. Their discussion of cast bullets was most interesting to me. They described a test where two identical 30-06 barrels were used. One was using cast bullets and the other using jacketed bullets. Same number of rounds fired in each. They said when the jacketed barrel was worn out,there was no measurable wear in the cast barrel. This was followed by their question of how many .22 rimfires have you seen with shot out barrel? I couldnt think of any.

[Gussy]

I took my shoes off and started counting, when I ran out I started putting marks in the dirt after each round of fingers and toes, then I ran out of dirt. My wife refuses to let me use crayons as she doesn't like cleaning the walls.

Lets face it, I can't count that high.
Gus

[JohnH]

I'm curious, after reading some posts of members telling their experiences. Just how many shots have you fired in your lifetime. Yep, you can count them all, as long as it was a cartridge of some kind. Don't worry if you think its not believeable, just put it down.

I'd like to know myself. I don't know how many boxes of 22 I shot as a kid. Kinda like sundog here, was a gully that dad and the neighbors dumped tin cans and glass in....spent untold hours there poking holes in stuff. Would get boxes of 22's for working around the house. Played with a cap and ball revolver for a long time before I got my first model 10. Used to go out with a friend and throw clays for one another, used 20's and 12's. Dad had a Trapdoor , my first centerfire rifle, but we didn't shoot that too much. Then came a Taurus PT92 and my first loading set up, I was going through 3 or 400 rounds a weekend with that thing. WOOHOO. Then I started casting for the model 10, then came a long string of guns. Then came skeet and a few 1100 12's and one 1100 20. I was shooting 100 rounds a Sunday sometimes 200 + shooting the handguns. Gees. These days I'm shooting 50-100 rounds a week depending on the weather, some weeks more some less, but easily 500 rounds a month. Was a 7 or so year period that I didn't shoot even a rubberband, but I still think I've probably fired at least 50,000 if not 75,000 rounds in my lifetime and adding to it everyday.

[Jumptrap]

Jump-
I can assure you, you can wear out to almost nothing, a barrel, 22 or otherwise, with lead bullets.

Well, maybe you can. My old Colt has 100,000+ through it and the bore is mirror bright and sharp and as accurate as ever. maybe 600-700,000 would do it, but that's something future generations will have to prove with this Colt .22.

[Jumptrap]

Jump---One of the major reasons I took up casting was along the lines of what you said about .22 rimfires. I was contemplating taking up reloading and had bought a Lyman Reloading Manual to read. Their discussion of cast bullets was most interesting to me. They described a test where two identical 30-06 barrels were used. One was using cast bullets and the other using jacketed bullets. Same number of rounds fired in each. They said when the jacketed barrel was worn out,there was no measurable wear in the cast barrel. This was followed by their question of how many .22 rimfires have you seen with shot out barrel? I couldnt think of any.

Cman.

I have seen several 22 barrels abused to death but never seen one actually 'shot out'. I have even seen .22 rf barrels that looked like Hell but still shot well. The 22 rf is an amazing cartridge, probably the finest thing that ever came along.

[45 2.1]

Jump-
What do you call shot out? You look down the bore and can see a FAINT spiral and the bullets won't stabilize anymore. I'd call that shot out myself. Remingtons are worse at this than others, at least the one I had was like that. I've had several that had no rifling for half the barrel to. I didn't say I did that, just that it was possible to do it. Someone in the past 70 years did alot of shooting with those rifles. BTW, 100,000 thru a 22 barrel isn't anything. I shot in local competition from 1972 thru 1982 and put that many thru my first target pistol barrel and shot indoor target rifle with the American Legion for years before that. I've shot a load of 22's. From what i'm seeing here, i'm convinced that people don't shoot much anymore.

[longhorn]

Pretty impressive numbers! Only time I ever counted was the summer after I graduated high school-31,000 through one Ruger 10-22. Back when I was shooting CAS matches, I was buying commercial cast (I know, I know) bullets in 10,000's 3 or 4 times a year. Now if I could just cast as fast as I can run the Dillon, and had twice as much time to spare.....

[45nut]

My turn I guess. ;-)

I know I have to number in the 30k range and I am guessing conservatively. Quite a bit I figure,tho the 22rf certainly has been the champion I have got quite a bit of centerfire ammo in the past 15-20 years. Once I started reloading I was like a maniac with the 38spl,9mm and 45's. I would go buy a box of 500 and load'em up and shoot'em up on my days off. This was with a RCBS pita piggyback progressive. As many rounds as I was turning out there were way too many substandard rounds. I finally got into a Dillon RL 550 and the reject ammo numbers were cut into the 2% range of what they were.
Now that I have been casting my own the satisfaction factor has really gone through the roof as well.
Speaking of 22's,I have a Winchester Model 56 that was built in '29 that I aquired in '85 or so that has served me like a champ. No matter the ammunition it seems to have "eyes". And though the rifle has thousands upon thousands of rounds through the pipe a simple brush-through and the bore looks nice and shiny. Rifling though not sharp is well defined. A most impressive gun.

[buck1]

I was thinking about this the other day, but in reverse. I want enugh lead to last the rest of my days.
I couldnt come up with a # then either.
But , - windy days, +test loads +500 yd walking shots( dont worrie the rabbits are still safe) with a hand gun= somewhwere about 105,000 +several thousands of 22 lr . I cant even rember how many full cases I have bought of those much less bricks , or boxes.
thats the best honest answer I can figure +/- .
.......buck

[carpetman]

Well guys I aint gonna put a number here. That would be too easy a target for Starmetal Joe to upstage. But I will tell you this much. I start out with a .22 and when it is all shot out, I load up a spiral die and shoot it down the barrel to make some new twist for the next caliber. All that shooting erodes away the chamber so I can go to a longer case. I have a couple of .50 Alaskans that started out as .22 rimfires. All this got me to wondering just how many. So I did what Gussy did and started making a mark in the dirt for every 10,000 rounds. I'm up to 40 acres that I got plowed up and Im still going. Now I do have a tractor that is stuck in reverse and I might have to go out there and unplow a few acres to have more room. But it's been too hot to plow. Many of you might ask how hot is it? Well if you do,I'll tell you. Just the other day my neighbor was a plowing his cornfield. It got so hot the corn started popping and he thought it was snowing and froze to death.

[Junior1942]

Just the other day my neighbor was a plowing his cornfield. It got so hot the corn started popping and he thought it was snowing and froze to death.I know what you mean, Carpetman. Last summer it got so hot and dry here that the dirt daubers flew themselves to death going all the way to the river for mud.

[Pb head]

I reckon a few magazines or so. Started at about 11 yrs old and haven't stopped yet and I'm over 62 at this time. The only aspect of the shooting sports I never got too involved in was shotgun other then small game hunting. Been heavy into casting the last 40 yrs since I was discharged from the Air Force in '65. I will say I've learn more from the guys on this and the old Shooters site then all the preceding yrs I spent casting and trying to sort out all the conflicting information in gun rags. As far as how many rounds I have fired I couldn't even begin to say. I do know that the garbage man takes a lot of empty primer boxes away each Thursday in the trash bags.

Pb head

[45 2.1]

Well guys I aint gonna put a number here. That would be too easy a target for Starmetal Joe to upstage. But I will tell you this much. I start out with a .22 and when it is all shot out, I load up a spiral die and shoot it down the barrel to make some new twist for the next caliber. All that shooting erodes away the chamber so I can go to a longer case. I have a couple of .50 Alaskans that started out as .22 rimfires. All this got me to wondering just how many. So I did what Gussy did and started making a mark in the dirt for every 10,000 rounds. I'm up to 40 acres that I got plowed up and Im still going. Now I do have a tractor that is stuck in reverse and I might have to go out there and unplow a few acres to have more room. But it's been too hot to plow. Many of you might ask how hot is it? Well if you do,I'll tell you. Just the other day my neighbor was a plowing his cornfield. It got so hot the corn started popping and he thought it was snowing and froze to death.

Carpetman-
I think you just snowed Joe.

[KCSO]

I've been a firearms instructor and shot matches for the last 34 years. One instructors re-cert alone was 1500 rounds of Pistol 500 shotgun and 500 rifle. Plus practice ammo ???? In one year when I was shooting PPC I shot a Smith 28 loose with 30,000 rounds all double action, I couldn't begin to count up all the rounds. I did keep count on how many rounds I loaded with my Lee Turret press and when I had it re-built last year it had cranked out 150,000 rounds of ammo.

[StarMetal]

45 2.1

Nah, was just busy lookin for my ******** boots cause the **** sure is gettin deep in here now.

Joe

[Jumptrap]

Jump-
What do you call shot out? You look down the bore and can see a FAINT spiral and the bullets won't stabilize anymore. I'd call that shot out myself. Remingtons are worse at this than others, at least the one I had was like that. I've had several that had no rifling for half the barrel to. I didn't say I did that, just that it was possible to do it. Someone in the past 70 years did alot of shooting with those rifles. BTW, 100,000 thru a 22 barrel isn't anything. I shot in local competition from 1972 thru 1982 and put that many thru my first target pistol barrel and shot indoor target rifle with the American Legion for years before that. I've shot a load of 22's. From what i'm seeing here, i'm convinced that people don't shoot much anymore.

I'd call your description accurate. I've never seen a 22 rimfire that was cared for, in such condition. I've not examined hundreds of 22 rimfire rifles and pistols. Perhaps if one was to use a borescope and peer down the barrels of my well used 22's, wear could be detected. However, I don't have one and depend solely on eyesight...and from what I can see, I cannot detect any wear at all.

I do have in my possession an ancient marlin 1897 lever gun that was abused by my late uncle. He allowed the barrel to rust, never ever cleaned it in any way and the result is a pitted and well 'worn' bore. However, it still shoots reasonably well. I was raised by a man who cleaned his guns religiously and dad inspired me to do the same. That being said, I admit, I am not as fastidious as he is.....taking anything to an anal extreme gripes my ass. If dad fired one round, his guns were cleaned as if he had fired 500. Yeah, they all look great.....but mine do too. Biggest difference between his guns and mine, is the fact that I actually used mine instead of looking at them.

No, I do not shoot as much as I used too. I don't have the free time to spend 'playing' that I once did. I never engaged in competition of any sort. I never had a pile of surplus money to spend on guns and ammunition and reloading components on a large scale. My income was never large enough to allow 'daddy' to have toys, when the kids couldn't have them for the same reasons. When I reached better financial means, my responsibilities grew as well and that ended hours of spare leisure time. Saturday afternoons were never free to hang out with the 'boys' and burn a ton of ammo and then spend Sunday on the golfcourse or nursing a hangover. I had a kid who wanted to go fishing and squirrel hunting and play baseball. I gave my free time to him, instead of to my own petty self indulgences. As a result, my kids grew into responsible adults who didn't smoke pot or get drunk or throw bricks at passing cars. So, no, I didn't shoot as much, as many did or do. And, that is why my guns aren't worn out and the reason I cannot account for 900,000 rounds sent down range. I had other things to do.

[carpetman]

Jumptrap--I bought this gizmo at Wal Mart that slides over a MiniMag flashlight. It has a tail on it that has fiber optics inside it. You can point a beam of light into small place with it,and it works great on bores. I think you can get one with the flashlight for under $20.

[beagle]

Man, this is an interesting thread.

Count a bunch of years shooting pistol and plinking rats at the local dump, maybe 20K by the time I went to college.

Then smallbore for a couple of years is another 20K plus all of the cast shooting for fun.

Then the Army. First tour in Nam, I cracked one M60 barrel at the lug area after 75K actual count rounds and that was just after mid tour. I'm gonna say 150K. (door gunner on a Charlie model gun). That's not counting shooting birds out the door with an M-16 or "honkin" at hooches with an M-79.

2nd tour, I didn't get much, maybe 75K of assorted 7.62, 20mm and 40mm. Mostly test fire stuff that tour but at 4K a run, pretty soon, it's big money.

Then high power for about 5 years, and skeet and trap and throw in a bunch for cast along the way as I still had to have sanity.

Then all the range sessions for the Army and we always shot up the extra ammo.

Since I retired in 1989....17-20K a year of cast and that's conservative.

I'd conservatively say between two and 3 million rounds for a lifetime and I ain't done yet./beagle

[45 2.1]

45 2.1

Nah, was just busy lookin for my ******** boots cause the **** sure is gettin deep in here now.

Joe

Now that you got your boots on, tell us how many because a few 100 thousand won't wear out a Jr. They just get wobbly at that amount.

[crazy mark]

Not counting 22 RF I would say in the area of 100,000 to 200,000. Approx 10% of them were jacketed or factory shotshell. I couldn't count how many rimfire as we bought it by the brick and my model 63 Win saw at least 10 years of shooting 2-5 bricks a month. We used to rat shoot at the dump and once in a while the racoons or skunks that used to come through. Mark

[StarMetal]

45 2.1

Don't forget with two stage rifle dies there are twice the ram strokes and with pistol dies there can be three to four times as many strokes, and in addition I loaded for friends. Yeah loading for friends isn't what I shot, but I'm talking about the RCBS JR press wear now. It got more then wobbly, it got to the point where it wouldn't line up a case with the sizer die mouth. RCBS said they wanted it back to see it and I shipped it. They called me and said over the phone they were amazed at the wear. Yeah I kept the ram clean and lubed.

Had one of the first RCBS autoloader the 4x4. Friend and I were loading lots of 223, 5000 at a batch. After 3000 rounds the sizing station on the ram head had indent .030 of an inch. RCBS wanted to see that head and I sent that back. If you don't believe any of this just call Speer and ask for the mechanical engineer by the name of Ken Alexander (he was working for RCBS at the of my dealing with them) and ask him about that early press. The head was suppose to be cast steel that was heat treated. Ken said that it must have missed the heating treating.

Joe

[waksupi]

I've been pondering the question, and really don't know. I shot up a box or two of .22's a week from the time I was in probably fifth grade, (best three years of my life) until I got out of high school. Once I got a real job, on Fridays I would cash my paycheck, and get a brick of a thousand .22's every week, and it was seldom I didn't have them used up by next payday. This went on for 2-3 years. As my firearms interest grew, but time grew shorter, I didn't shoot as much for about five years, maybe a couple hundred rounds a month. Then when I moved to the Big Draw country down on the Reservation, my shooting went way up again. I imagine 4-500 per week there, and every evening was tied up casting bullets and reloading. Since I bought this place in I believe '86, I've shot on a real slow week maybe a hundred rounds, and on a regular week will run 2-400 a week in various firearms. My math is no good to add it all up, but it is probably enough to fill up Carpetman's pickup! Probably pushing a quarter million pretty close, I suppose.

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
WELL I STARTED W/ .22'S RF. many 1000's.
Then 30/06 & .38/357's don't even own those guns anymore back in the jacked only days but prob. 2-3,000 30/06, & 30-50,000 .38/357's (lead included).
Then .25/06 maybe 500 all jacked.
Then 7mm/06 & 7mm mag. of which I have empty J boolet boxes for 4,000, started keeping the boxes for cast & I've filled & emptied them several times.
Then .44 mag. empty J boolet boxes for about 3000, which I've filled & emptied several times.
So who knows a bunch. It keeps me out of trouble & off the street.
Oh, forgot to add black powder pistol & rifle. Oh well you get the drift.

[carpetman]

Joe---Nah the head didnt miss heat treating. The speed you were reloading at heated it up to the point it lost it's temper. Your lube wasnt working as you boiled it away.

[StarMetal]

Ray

unhuh

Joe

[carpetman]

I have a neighbor who has lurked on a bunch of these boards for years. To my knowledge,he has never made a post on any of them. During the over 20 years or so I have known him,his routine is go to the rifle range EVERY Saturday and Sunday. Weather has no impact whatsoever on this. It might get interrupted to go to a shooting match someplace. He did win the Texas state pistol shoot one year. He is a mechanic and he once told me if he has a problem with something,he might head out to the range during the week to sort things out. He mostly shoots a contender and the bulk is with .22 rimfire. He goes through a lot of bricks. He does shoot other stuff and is very good with long guns too. He does reload,but is not into casting---buys cast bullets. Is very good with longbows and recurves too.
One day he came down and his car had been stolen. It was parked behind the garage where he works. His car was locked and some of the other mechanics had left theirs unlocked and key in them,but his was the one stolen. It was his work car--nothing fancy. A week or so later,I saw him checking under the hood of his car and thought it was the one that had been stolen. I walked down and asked how was it recovered? It seems as though a restaurant owner had a car problem,so neighbor drives over to the restaurant and gets it started and drives it back to the shop to repair it. A week or so later the owner calls my neighbor and asks him when he is going to move his car off his parking lot? I think how many rounds my neighbor has fired would be a most interesting number. Certainly there is no proof that it does any damage whatsoever.

[Scrounger]

When I was shooting at West End in California, I'd go up there at 5 or 6 AM. Every day there was a man up there practicing. Pistols, .22, .38, .45. about a hundred rounds each, maybe more. Summer or winter, if it wasn't raining, he was there. He had flood lights mounted on the back of his pickup so he could shoot before daylight. Naturally he was a competition shooter, had won state championships and placed very high in nationals. But he had paid his dues. I always wanted to be a better shot than I am but I knew I never would be. Because I didn't want it bad enough to earn it like that gentleman and the others had. They had the 'need' to be the best, I didn't. I can accept that.

[Leadmine]

Conservative estimate...300,000

[slughammer]

He had flood lights mounted on the back of his pickup so he could shoot before daylight. Naturally he was a competition shooter, had won state championships and placed very high in nationals.

OK, I give up. Who was it?

[Scrounger]

OK, I give up. Who was it?

I don't remember his name. I didn't know him, just saw him at the range. And he wasn't a talkative kind of guy. He came up there to take care of business. Think you might know him?

[slughammer]

Think you might know him?

Wouldn't know him, but perhaps I would know his name.

I have lived in AZ and shot at Rio Salado; out there Rob Leatham, Brian Enos and other locals were just a regular thing. Figure some folks would be familiar with these two names. Doug Koenig shoots at one of the PA ranges local to where I live now; 7 or 8 time winner of the Bianchi Cup, ever hear of him? Nice guy.

[azrednek]

[QUOTE=45 2.1]Just how many shots have you fired in your lifetimeQUOTE]

Geez!! Think it would be easier to count the number of telephone poles I've driven past!! Why not ask how many different women I've lusted for :) !! Kidding aside my answer is pure speculation. Having some shooting friends with and at one time having my own NFA guns alot of rounds fired. Not counting the 3 years with mg's and countless 22's roughly 2-10,000 per year. When I was younger with keen eyesight and into long range shooting I shot alot less as each shot was slowly and carefully aimed. Deliberatly kept the number of shots down to prevent the barrel from heating up. I also took the time to take notes. Now-a-days with eyesight that doesn't allow much sharpshooting after an hour or less, it's quanity more than quality at the range. Once things start getting fuzzy I bring the target in closer and plink away. A few times a year I go shooting with a friend and it's strictly muzzle loading black powder rifles. Might spend a few hours and not shoot more than 25-35 times.

[Bass Ackward]

I'm curious, after reading some posts of members telling their experiences. Just how many shots have you fired in your lifetime. Yep, you can count them all, as long as it was a cartridge of some kind. Don't worry if you think its not believeable, just put it down.

Bob,

I got interested in this once you started it and I can't put this down. It's kind of like your youth too, because you can't get it back. That's what the significance of this is of coarse, memory lane. Too imposible to tell.

I can remember that I lost my first SBH, 44 Mag to timing failure and frame stretch at 56,000. My second SBH, to a cracked forcing cone at 49,000. I figure that between the other 44s that there is another 25 - 30,000. So that adds up to what, 130,000. I've had 5, 458 Americans, that average 2000 rounds per year for 33 years so there is another 66,000. I started out slow with the 45 rifle but picked up after the arthritis set in from those damn 44s. I was used to the simplicity of shooting bottle necked small bore and became intrigued by the challenge of the 45. Now why? Because when I shot the 44s, I was a shooter. When I started into 45 rifle, I became a caster and a reloader. 45 rifle was the best teacher out there, for casting, for me, because it gives you doctorate degrees from the school of hard knocks in every phase of cast shooting. And it is more fun treatment than a Ciropracter.

Forget the military because I wasn't paying for that, and I say another 12,000, 12 guage from failed attempts at those sports not counting hunting. And I shot far more 22LR than anything else for the one reason that leaves us all. You don't have to mold or reload them. So deep down, are we shooters? Or .... reloaders?

The good thing about this mental exercise is to teach me that I haven't shot enough 22LR for a long time. I still own 4, and the newest one is a 52 Winny single shot with less than 2000 through it. So maybe I need to run that total up a little more than it is what ever it is. It might just bring back a few memories to boot.

I picked up a couple of bricks last night. They feel kinda dry, I wonder if some liquid Alox would help them out? :grin:

[Leftoverdj]

Less than most of you, but more than enough to make people question my sanity. I know I have scrounged, cast and shot over a ton of WW and think I am headed close to my second ton.

[45 2.1]

Bob,
When I started into 45 rifle, I became a caster and a reloader. 45 rifle was the best teacher out there, for casting, for me, because it gives you doctorate degrees from the school of hard knocks in every phase of cast shooting. And it is more fun treatment than a Ciropracter. :grin:

Bass-
Your right about the 45 rifle as a doctorate level degree. If you learn how to shoot benchrest quality groups, the other ones are alot easier. Just to think that Harry Pope said the 4570 wouldn't shoot, ha!

[StarMetal]

ALL, except the 6.5 Swede using a 96 Swede rifle.

Joe

[Four Fingers of Death]

Buckshot and fmech, I gotta agree, I picked up a K38 a few months or so and have been on a heavy schedule. Finally got to use it last Saturday at the range. Liked it so much, I went again on Sunday. Reloaded a bunch of ammo for it ready for next weekend. This one is very old, converted to SA (it was a DA originally and pulling the trigger will cycle the action, but not cock the hammer) and has been kicking around one of the big pistol clubs in the city near where I used to live. I bought it off the club armourer and he said he has sold and resold it more times that he could remember. It has been in constant use since new and it is one of the old ones with the pin through the frame and bbl.

Its gonna get a lot more use I can tell you.

Mick.

[45 2.1]

ALL, except the 6.5 Swede using a 96 Swede rifle.

Joe

You would be wrong on that one Joe!

[StarMetal]

Let me expand, at over say 1900-2000 fps If you're getting really good accuracy over 2000 fps I think you should tell Buckshot, Me, Waksupi, Oldfeller, and other's what it is you're doing to get it.

Joe

[45 2.1]

Let me expand, at over say 1900-2000 fps If you're getting really good accuracy over 2000 fps I think you should tell Buckshot, Me, Waksupi, Oldfeller, and other's what it is you're doing to get it.

Joe

OK Joe. First, study the development history of the cartridge and tell me what you find. The barrel has deep rifling and a fast twist. It destroyed thin jacketed bullets. Check the military issue bullets with a magnet and tell me about it. The 96 was meant for a 160 gr. jacketed bullet and is throated for it. If you want accuracy with a "cast bullet", you will have to find a "really hard" oversize bullet to try that isn't too long. I haven't read of any of you trying anything like this so far, not withstanding Oldfellers attempt at wadcutters. Wait till the 6.5 Kurtz bullet gets done and try something with it. You might get a surprise.

[StarMetal]

So the way I see I'm right so far. I don't believe Oldfeller did good with any kind of cast bullet at high velocity out of the Swede yet. I wouldn't hold my hopes for the new short bullet coming up soon.

Joe

[1Shirt]

I am 67, and I figure that I have probably averaged at least 2500 rounds a year, some considerably more, a few a lot less. When you add full auto rounds in the military (quad 50 was a real hoot), as someone has already said, it is a crap shoot of estimates.
1Shirt

[45 2.1]

So the way I see I'm right so far. I don't believe Oldfeller did good with any kind of cast bullet at high velocity out of the Swede yet. I wouldn't hold my hopes for the new short bullet coming up soon.

Joe

Joe-
What you and others don't realize is that the swede is very critical as to loaded neck diameter. If you don't fill the chamber neck full with very little clearence it won't shoot. If you fill it up, it shoots very well. An example: I use reformed 30-06 cases and have for a long time. A .468" bullet with the reformed cases which have turned necks shoots benchrest quality groups. The new Graff 6.5x55 brass has a neck wall diameter .001" less than the turned reformed cases. With the same load and bullets, it shoots like crap while the same load and bullets in the reformed cases shoot great. I have alternated loads and targets to test this and it proved out. If you can't get brass with a thicker neck, then get a larger bullet. Take a case that has been fired with a full load, flare the neck end slightly and try your bullet. When it will just fit with some resistance and no slop, then that is the size you want to use. You can try this yourself by patching up a small bullet to diameter.

[StarMetal]

45 2.1

Sir, don't tell me what you think I don't realize. First I don't own a 6.5 Swede, but I do own a 260 Remington with a little faster twist. Now Buckshot, Oldfeller, Waksupi, and I forget what others own the actual 6.5 Model 96 Swedes, and I can gaurantee you that at least half, if not all of them know just about every thing there is to know about shooting cast in a rifle. Waksupi and Oldfeller at just about 100 percent convinced, oh and beagle too, that the long cast bullet is bending upon leaving the muzzle from extremes high rotational speed and that the alloy can't be made hard enough. Beagle equates it to a thin copper wiring chucked in a drill and turning the drill on. It spins straight for awhile then it bends out of shape. I'm not totally convinced of this yet. I told them the only way I'll believe that is if they could shoot a long cast bullet from Swede straight up into the air while standing in the center of a very large shallow pool of water so they can retrieve the bullet undamaged. This also is the reason I had Bullshop send me some of those very longer and heavy 22 caliber cast bullets so I can shoot them out of my 1/7 twist AR15 to see if their theory is right on the bullet bending because of the rotational forces. Now sir, I know all about the things you mentioned like the neck thickness. You want to know something and I'm not kidding, in fact if you want proof of what I am about to say Call Mike Schnelle, Tulsa, Ok, Bob MeNeely, Fort Collins, Co, Quay Simpson, Chillicothe, Ohio, and Bob Bonucci, Fayettte City, Pa and ask them...and that is I don't all the time go through all that baloney you and others on there talk about, neck thickness, fit the throat, weight the bullets, etc. etc etc..and still shoot mighty small groups with both handguns and rifles using cast bullets. Go ahead and call them and if you want phone numbers I'll supply them. One more thing ask Mike Schnelle how far I can hit you with a Model 19 Smith 357 mag with four inch barrel. First thing he'll do is laugh, then say I've been waiting a long time for one of these call, then he'll tell you. Now, I've done all these things to the 260 Rem. Long bullets, short bullets, hard and soft bullets in both long and short bullets, soft alloy, hard alloy, thicker case neck, weighed bullets, fit the throat, different bullet diameters, a host of different powders, and a whole lot of other things...and this rifle so far won't shoot cast good enough for me and probably must guys on here. How's it shoot jacketed? Shoots holes..real fine shooting rifle, even harvested deer with it. Rifling twist is 1/9. So if you have a 6.5 Swede shooting very small groups with cast bullets at high velocity (at least above 2000 fps) you should go to the shoot the fellows are having in Nevada and show them what they are doing wrong. Either that and post and tell Oldfeller and Waksupi.

Joe

[45 2.1]

45 2.1
Sir, don't tell me what you think I don't realize. First I don't own a 6.5 Swede, but I do own a 260 Remington with a little faster twist. Now Buckshot, Oldfeller, Waksupi, and I forget what others own the actual 6.5 Model 96 Swedes, and I can gaurantee you that at least half, if not all of them know just about every thing there is to know about shooting cast in a rifle.

Joe-
96 twist is 7 1/2", you say yours is 9". Explain yourself.
As far as calling your buddies, you do it if you need to find out something. I'm not the only one who has found out how to get the swede to perform, and you were just told how. Get a 96 and find out for yourself. As far as how far something will shoot is not a secret only know to your buddies, there are alot of people who know how. Just because you or yours can't do something doesn't meen its not possible. Now calm down and don't blow your fuse partner.

[StarMetal]

45 2.1

I explain the 260 in that it has the same bore size as the Swede, but the twist is different and the case capacity slightly different. I only mention it because it's a 6.5 and hard to find the perfect cast bullet and load for it. Just thinking maybe 6.5's are a bear.

Now if you can shoot say 1 to 1 1/2 inch groups at 100 yards, with a scope or receiver sight at say 2000 to 2400 fps I was to see the targets.

Not blowing a fuse.

Joe

[StarMetal]

45 2.1

I've been told the Swede twist is faster then what you said.

Joe

[45 2.1]

45 2.1

I've been told the Swede twist is faster then what you said.

Joe

Lyman manuals #44 thru #48 list the Swede rifles having the twist as 7 1/2". Thats in print and should pretty well nail that down. Barrel twist has nothing to do with bore size or case capacity.

A 1 turn in 9" is slower than 1 turn in 7 1/2". 6.5s with a fast twist are hard on long bullets, granted. FLGC bullets shoot fine, why not try to duplicate the construction in cast, a very hard skin with a softer core. An achievable goal if you use the right alloy, water quenched, with correct bullet size and length or a properly alloyed paper patched bullet or with copper driving bands. All these options work when done right. That range for right is very narrow here, I happened on it by accident myself.

[StarMetal]

You'd have to shoot cast zinc bullets to have the hard alloy you speak of. It's true just about all the Swedes shoot jacketed elonquetly for a military rifle, better in fact then some factory rifles in other calibers. That fast twist and long bullet are the culprits alright. The fact that all the Swede fellows on here have got that shorty mould in the works is because they haven't found the majic bullet for high velocity in the Swede. If you found the alloy or bullet or both...why you holding out? If you own a Swede why go by what the book says on the twist and not just do the cleaning rod trick on it to find out. Personally I didn't think there was anything faster then 1/7 such as in the AR15, but I'm told the Swede is faster. Yes I know the smaller the number the faster the twist, this old boy never got mixed up on automobile rearend ratios such as 2.73, 3.08, 3.55, 4.11...the lower the number the higher the speed the gears will push the car to if there's enough horsepower. The big numbers are for drag racing.

Joe

[45 2.1]

As someone else just put it, "i'm not holding your coat* or leading you down the primrose path. Most all folks want to "Do it thereselves", and just be given the right direction after they've asked. You don't have a swede and they haven't asked.

[StarMetal]

Well 45 2.1, they are like me, not believing it, but I'll tell you what, just to get you to tell us and maybe to help get my 260 shooting, and further more maybe provoke me into buying a Swede, I would like know to how you get your 6.5 Swede to shoot mightly small consistant groups at high velocities.

Joe

[DOUBLEJK]

Hmmmmm' not near as many as I'd of liked too...

N way more than the better half thinks I deserved....:grin:

[Bad Ass Wallace]

Well I used to shoot in the State team for 12 years and fired 7-8000 rounds per year. Since that time I shoot about 300/month in both pistol & rifle.

With a shooting life of 40+ years must be approaching about 225,000!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v152/BAWallace/My_cast_45.jpg

[45 2.1]

Well 45 2.1, they are like me, not believing it, but I'll tell you what, just to get you to tell us and maybe to help get my 260 shooting, and further more maybe provoke me into buying a Swede, I would like know to how you get your 6.5 Swede to shoot mightly small consistant groups at high velocities.

Joe

If you want to know, then you have to buy a swede. A M38 would be the easiest to have success with. I don't care if you don't believe, since most people i've talked with don't believe you either. If you want to play, you have to pay.

[Oldfeller]

Oh heck, let's try again.

The shorty swede slug we have on order was designed to drop at .270" band diameter or there-abouts so that folks could size it to fit the wide throat of the Obendorf swede guns way back near the case mouth. Ostensible reason was that the bullet was so short it wasn't going to go but half way down that long throat anyway and it needed to be fat enough to rub the throat walls as it was seated in the case to get some alignment.

This slug will run just short of half an inch down a smooth tapered throat before it ever sees rifling marks on the driver bands. During that smooth throat run it will shrink from .270" to .264" as the throat constricts near the end and sizes her on down.

This .270" as seated body diameter may also jack the neck open enough to take out a good bit of the slop that exists in the military neck recess (but not all of it). That is a extra benefit of the larger diameter.

The little cut down slug-lets that I used going after Dan's prize had little machined cones on the pointy end, not wadcutters. The fact they worked well supported our general theory on the 6.5 that "shorter was better" although I did cheat by seating them independently of the cases all the way down into the rifling using a length stopped seating rod. I also used the same set of fired cases for all the sets of shots which is why the whole thing was such an extreme time eater (not to mention machining the slugs and weight sorting them).

I cheated quite a bit on that contest which is why I would never actually try to claim Dan's 200,000 rpm prize.

We actually have two "confirmations" that shorter is better, Buckshot's shorty hollow points was the second. And yes, I do think the long bullets bend on exit which is why I built steel pin supported long bullets to test the theory.

When the 6.5 Kurtz mold is done and shipped then we will get lots of confirmation (and some failure).

That's Karlina -- she won't give it up easily. She's a tall skinny snooty bitch that likes to frustrate you, she does NOT try to please you.

Oldfeller

[StarMetal]

45 2.1

You still haven't answered if you actually measured the twist on your Swede.
You also still haven't produced any targets, bullet pictures, etc. Any other time you're eager to jump on a thread with your vast knowledge. Does it have anything to do with it me that has made the statement about the 6.5 Swede perhaps?

Joe

[waksupi]

Well, I was going to stay out of this one, but I guess I may as well put my dog into the fight. Back on the old Shooters board, the 6.5 was beat to death, and the shooters came to love it or hate it. It is finicky. Period. I'll bet Jumptrap still has nightmares. The best accuracy was always right around 1700 fps. Soft bullets gave superior accuracy. Push them faster, and groups dissapeared. I did the experimenting with the pure tin (edited, I had mistakenly put pure lead in the original post) bullets at higher velocity. Disasterous. Recovered bullets from the snow were banana shaped. The high rotational force of the issue Swede rifling is not going to be forgiving to fast speeds, and longer bullets. I've got two M38's, and a M96. Same results, no matter the load.
What happens with the shorties, remains to be seen.

[45 2.1]

45 2.1

You still haven't answered if you actually measured the twist on your Swede.
You also still haven't produced any targets, bullet pictures, etc. Any other time you're eager to jump on a thread with your vast knowledge. Does it have anything to do with it me that has made the statement about the 6.5 Swede perhaps?

Joe

Nope, I haven't measured and am not going to, i'll take Lymans, several reloading manuals and the swedes word for it. I didn't claim vast knowledge, but i've been down the 6.5 path for 30 years and have found out what I wanted to know about it. As I said before, your opinion will mean little to me until you behave in a more friendly manner. As a non owner of the swede, your statements are arm chair only and have no practical merit.

Waksupi has a very good point, large short 6.5 molds are few and far between, so the 6.5 kurtz will open up a new testing period for alot of us.

[StarMetal]

45 2.1

Oh, behave in a more friendly manner heh? Who are you, Father superior. Frankly I don't care about your opinions and I don't care if you don't care about my opinions, in fact I don't care about you. You're an arrogant old cuss if I've ever seen one. Do us a favor and stay out of my posts and I'll stay out of your posts. Go razzle someone else with your BS. What's your come back? That I'm a know it all? That you get pm's of other posters telling you that? Maybe I can say the same about you.

Joe

[45 2.1]

45 2.1

Oh, behave in a more friendly manner heh? Who are you, Father superior. Frankly I don't care about your opinions and I don't care if you don't care about my opinions, in fact I don't care about you. You're an arrogant old cuss if I've ever seen one. Do us a favor and stay out of my posts and I'll stay out of your posts. Go razzle someone else with your BS. What's your come back? That I'm a know it all? That you get pm's of other posters telling you that? Maybe I can say the same about you.

Joe

I think you just proved my point. Anyway, i'm not the one with no experience with the rifle or cartridge claiming something with absolutely no contact with it. And your last statement is pretty close to being something personal. I'm through with you, don't contact me again.

[StarMetal]

No you aren't getting off that easy. You proved our point. You're the one that's an armchair shooter. I'm glad you're through with me, frankly you can disappear for all I care. Bye 45 2.1 tata, ciao, adios.

StarMetal

[brimic]

Most of the lead I've put down range has been through my 870 wingmaster. I've shot trap with it for 20 years, and would guess that 100,000 rounds through it would be a conservative estimate (dang those are good guns when you think about it). All others combined, maybe 10,000, most of them being .22 LR.