What moulds are rare?

[sheepdog]

I really don't know what Lyman, RCBS, Ideal, and Lee moulds are rare. While I may not need them I would certainly like to be in the know so I can pass them on to someone if I run into them cheap.

So with that said what are the old discontinued moulds that are the gems to look for?

[beagle]

Rarity depends on the need and probably the availability. The list may be long or short. Not many of the RCBS moulds are "rare" as most are still in production.

The Lyman/Ideals are a different proposition.

Here's what I consider rare from my standpoint:

225107
257312
31133 HP
311407
311440
358431 HB
429422 HB
462560

There are probably others that are near and dear to someone's heart but that's my take on it.

In the last 5 years, with all of the custom mould makers popping up, it has been been possible to get about anything made that you want./beagle

[theperfessor]

I don't know about "rare" but since Lee doesn't make HP molds any more they might have slightly more value and interest than the plain versions. I have a .452-190 and a .358-150 Lee. The .358 is OK, the .452 not so much as far as expansion goes.

I would also bet the the special order RCBS molds are the same as far as value.

Just my opinion.

[GLL]

I would certainly agree with beagle about the IDEAL 358431 HB &
429422 HB !

When you find those two please give me a call ! :) :)

Jerry

[BABore]

Jerry

How'd you like one of each of those in a 4 cavity mold.:)

[GLL]

Bruce:

I am already signing over my retirement check to you each month !

I barely have enough left over for a couple Guinness on Friday nights ! :)

Well, maybe we can talk about it ! :)

Jerry

[autofix4u]

Rarity depends on the need and probably the availability. The list may be long or short. Not many of the RCBS moulds are "rare" as most are still in production.

The Lyman/Ideals are a different proposition.

Here's what I consider rare from my standpoint:

225107
257312
31133 HP
311407
311440
358431 HB
429422 HB
462560

There are probably others that are near and dear to someone's heart but that's my take on it.

In the last 5 years, with all of the custom mould makers popping up, it has been been possible to get about anything made that you want./beagle

Beagle, you right about the 31133 hp for sure. i looked for over 3 years for one with no luck. Then found 2 at a local yard sale. also got a 358431 at the same sale, that needs some work but it still drops good boolits.
About 6 months ago picked up a 257312 but it needs lots of work. And I didnt spend over $30 on any of them & there not for sale..

[Buckshot]

...............A few more:

358009,
311467, (or any other Loverin of most ANY caliber:-))
323471
300136

..............Buckshot

[stubshaft]

H&G #38 -- Been looking for one for years and besides pictures I have never seen one in person. It is similar to the 31133HP. Any Lyman/Ideal Loverin designs. RCBS Limited edition molds (not special order molds but those made and discontinued like 30-150SP).

[iron mule]

i was looking at some of the moulds that you all were talking about and see that no one mentioned anything about the old sharps and ballard moulds that the buffalo hunters used// do any of you have an intrest in these // i have a few, nope none of them are for sale , it is something that i enjoy collecting old reloading and casting tools // some of this has been in the family for a while and passed down some i have found at estate sales and such , and always looking for more/// just thought i would ask about these
mule

[atr]

I certainly agree with Buckshot,,,,ANY Loverin desgin mold.....I am fortunate to have found one for my 7mm

[Doc Highwall]

I was going to mention 457130 by Lyman, but Suo Gan says it is just plain ugly.:drinks:

[beagle]

Picked up one of those last summer and have some loaded but haven't had time to shoot them yet.

That was an oldie and Lyman made a rerun about 10 years back in a limited run of a 100 so there may be a couple floating aroind./beagle


I was going to mention 457130 by Lyman, but Suo Gan says it is just plain ugly.:drinks:

[beagle]

How could I have forgotten the 3589/358009......... Must be old age./beagle


...............A few more:

358009,
311467, (or any other Loverin of most ANY caliber:-))
323471
300136

..............Buckshot

[sundog]

I have been honored to be the current custodian of a 358311 HP. It's the only one I've ever seen. The owner, an older gentleman and a friend, asked me to take care of it for him, in the context of, "I want you to have this and take care of it forever." That's pretty awesome. btw, it makes nice boolits.

[AnthonyB]

I must be doing pretty well; I have six of the fourteen moulds listed! :)
Tony

[Cord]

The 429422 has at least three, according to this picture:

The one with the captured base plug is the oldest, maybe early 30’s.
The hollow base plug is attached by a screw through the side of the
block at the bottom, just like a “Cramer” style, that’s why the handle
screw goes in from the top on that side of the mould. It is ventless,
somebody scratched some lines in it.

The next oldest is a pre-war ventless of the removable handle plug type.

The newest is a factory vented handle type, they introduced the vent
lines around the time of WWII. I don’t know when 422 was discontinued.


I think the 358431 was made in the same styles, I have heard of an early
captured plug example, but have only seen the vented, wood handle type,
and only two of those, ever! They were too expensive for the condition.

[beagle]

Lot of variations on both the 358431 and 429422. I have a 429422 with a floating captured plug that is reversible to make either HB or PB bullets. The pin is numbered to the block.

One bullet that hasn't been mentioned is the 358395 HB. Pretty hard to find and many variations running, from my experiences" from 144 through 160 grains./beagle


The 429422 has at least three, according to this picture:

The one with the captured base plug is the oldest, maybe early 30’s.
The hollow base plug is attached by a screw through the side of the
block at the bottom, just like a “Cramer” style, that’s why the handle
screw goes in from the top on that side of the mould. It is ventless,
somebody scratched some lines in it.

The next oldest is a pre-war ventless of the removable handle plug type.

The newest is a factory vented handle type, they introduced the vent
lines around the time of WWII. I don’t know when 422 was discontinued.


I think the 358431 was made in the same styles, I have heard of an early
captured plug example, but have only seen the vented, wood handle type,
and only two of those, ever! They were too expensive for the condition.

[georgewxxx]

I have a feeling what we're talking about is there's a difference between "RARE" and desirable or really usable. A lot of the older Ideals/Marlins are very rare, even RCBS has a few discontinued or added to there special order list, but hardly any of us would have any use for them. Most of the older casters have samples of Belding & Mull, Cramer, Modern Bond, Hensley & Gibbs. Even the lowly Herters is considered collectible because of the limited quantity produced.

All those you guys listed are now considered extremely usable and most, if not all, are discontinued moulds. I have a few of each of the out of business mould makers and after trying to work up loads with most of them I can see why they're not made now days. Look at our group buys and you'll see many of those are still very popular.

After learning how to deal with new powders, rifling, twist rate, primers, with all the different hardnesses of lead has changed considerably in the last 50 years. .....Geo

[beagle]

I agree with George, these are not "rare" moulds...just desireable and Lyman would do well to take note and make a short run of each as most of them have been proven with time.

That's the beauty of the GB moulds. They allow the younger casters to try some of these proven designs and have gone to the point of even improving them.

There will never ever be any of the old gems of the H & G persuasion and if anything, other than the popular "bullseye moulds of the 60s, these are fairly rare./beagle

[Blammer]

.625 dia round ball mould is rare.

well I can't find one.

[McKee Boykin]

All .228 molds are rare!

[MT Gianni]

Harvey Pro-tex with the zinc washer as base and the LY 44 & 38 cal 2 piece molds for different alloys are non common either.

[Cord]

The original question was not whether a mould is simply uncommon
and rarely seen; it was “old discontinued moulds that are the “gems”
to look for.

So, as I understood it, the rarest mould you can think of is not the idea,
rather, what “rare” or very seldom seen mould could you stumble across
that would have STRONG interest among a large number of serious and
knowledgeable casters, and be worthy of being called a “gem” of a find?

Instead of rare oddballs, or wildcats and special orders, it made me think
of items that would easily fetch well over $100 on fleabay, or something
that you wonder- “why the heck did they discontinue such a great design,
and where did they all get to?”

A close example might be #429303, they always bring strong prices, but are
really not that rare – and #452423 is also discontinued, and will bring a good
price, but I don’t consider either as “rare” or a “gem” to find, they are the
“semi-precious” stones , I see many more of those than 429422 or 358431.

Surprisingly, a clean 358439 HP will not bring $100.

[ktw]

Any of the adjustable length "Perfection" molds.

[Bent Ramrod]

Also, the one-piece cylindrical Ideal paper-patch moulds.

I have not found many of the "heel" moulds in .32 Short and Long (299152 and 299153) or the hollow base for the same caliber (299155). Ditto for the similar designs in .38 Short and Long (358159/358160 and 35870) and the .41 Colt (386176/386177 and 386178). These would fall into the categories of uncommon as well as desirable to anyone who wants to shoot the old calibers. You really can't shoot your gun without such moulds; the only alternative is a custom mould of the same type of cavity.

The Hudson, Pope, French and other tapered or multi-diameter moulds are sort of in a less urgent category; you don't have to have them because other moulds are available for the calibers, but someone might be interested in trying these in his Scheutzen rifle. They are not often seen.

There are certainly a lot of Ideal and Lyman designs that are rare, and not particularly sought after because equally good designs are available or they're just plain weird, like the 358101 and the 358363. These would primarily be of interest to someone who wants the complete series of Ideal and Lyman moulds. Sometimes finding such a collector is a harder job than finding the collector's item.

I myself have been searching for a long time for a 375164 for my .38-45 Bullard.

[DLCTEX]

What moulds are rare? Those I can afford.:mrgreen:

[Doc Highwall]

Lyman .550dia RB for 56cal smooth bore for Massachusetts deer hunting.

[Dollar Bill]

Production molds that cast round boolits the correct diameter.

[johnly]

Here's a picture of my 358431 mold.

http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee13/johnly1923/MVC-016L.jpg

John

[Yance]

While not an old Ideal or H&G I think this old Hall from the 30's would qualify as "rare". 7 pounds of steel and brass to cast 148 gr button nose wadcutters. On a good day I can run around 1,000/hr., abou 15 minutes at a time.:roll:

I also have an original Geo. A. Hensley #68. IIRC he only made moulds in '34 and '35 before partnering with Gibbs.

http://tinyurl.com/yguknbo:bigsmyl2:

[Doc Highwall]

How about a nose pour Lyman 457676 45Cal 510 grain with 20-1: alloy

[johnly]

While not an old Ideal or H&G I think this old Hall from the 30's would qualify as "rare". 7 pounds of steel and brass to cast 148 gr button nose wadcutters. On a good day I can run around 1,000/hr., abou 15 minutes at a time.:roll:

I also have an original Geo. A. Hensley #68. IIRC he only made moulds in '34 and '35 before partnering with Gibbs.

http://tinyurl.com/yguknbo:bigsmyl2:

That's not rare.... It's a piece of history!:drinks:

[44mag1]

I have an Ideal 450-225, I dont know if its real rare but its a fun bullet in my 45 colt

[Yance]

I have an Ideal 450-225, I dont know if its real rare but its a fun bullet in my 45 colt

I have it's "cousin", 450229 that's also a neat plinkin' bullet in .45 Colt even tho it was designed for the old cap'n'ball 44's.

[giz189]

I have noticed that the ones I want really bad seem to be pretty rare.

[Dschuttig]

I think the most expensive ideal handle-less mold i've ever seen sell on ebay is the the 350319 DC, and that went for around 320 bucks. Not the most popular mold, unless the 351 WSL found a second life! Rarest one I've got is a 316275, originally designed for the 318 "J" bored Gew 88 rifles. Never seen another one. Weird design, two grease grooves with a crimp grove in between.

[Dschuttig]

Almost forgot about the two webley molds, 457195 and 457196. I've never seen them at auction, but I imagine they can't be cheap..

[StanDahl]

Here's my 358395 HB. I think you're supposed to fill those big fat lube grooves with tallow or something!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v405/StanDahl/358395HB.jpg

Here's a 31133 HP.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v405/StanDahl/31133HP.jpg
They're both Ideal's. (I just noticed that the 31133 isn't vented.) It's a pain for me to cast decent bullets with either of these, even with pin-heating techniques. I'm really intrigued by the group buy (32 cal) RG mould technology, but I have a hard time shelling out the bucks for something new when I've already got something that (kind of) works.

[largom]

Do the Modern Bond molds have any "desirable" value?

Larry

[Upstate Matt]

...............A few more:

358009,
311467, (or any other Loverin of most ANY caliber:-))
323471
300136

..............Buckshot

I have seen 3 or 4 311467s on ebay over the last year. They all seem to go for $72, except the one I got week, a just listed buy it now for $25. Now I need the 311465 to complete the 30 cal set.

[Buckshot]

..............I think the ONLY loverin Lyman still offers is the 8mm 323470. They discontinued the 150 gr 7mm early this year I think it was. GPC had them listed (SC) for $45 each so I ordered 5 of'em. The order went through but 2 days later I got an e-mail saying they'd been sold out.

................Buckshot

[2Tite]

Bent ramrod,
I pm'd you concerning the 375164 you've been looking for..................

[BCall]

I found one the other day I think is rare, a Lyman 350457. Need a little clean up, and I'll have to send it to buckshot for a new HP pin, but it was cheap. Dunno what I'll do with it, maybe try some 35 Whelen paperpatch.
http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh259/blcall/SN851634.jpg

[pdawg_shooter]

I really don't know what Lyman, RCBS, Ideal, and Lee moulds are rare. While I may not need them I would certainly like to be in the know so I can pass them on to someone if I run into them cheap.

So with that said what are the old discontinued moulds that are the gems to look for?

If you ever run across a 301618, or a 301620 I am a player for sure.

[mtnman31]

I think nearly all the molds I see on fleabay are "rare and vintage".

From my personal collection I don't have any that I consider rare. I have a few uncommon ones but I think that the market for them is pretty small and I don't buy molds with the intent of selling them or turning them around. I buy molds that I can use, not collect. My personal strategy for puchasing rare or unique molds is to rely on the group buys and custom makers. I figure I am not willing to spend a ton of money on a rare mold that may or may not drop a bullet that is usable for my needs. I'd rather spend a few bucks and have a mold made exactly to my specs or needs. That isn't to say I'd pass up a "rare" mold if the price were right.

Some of the less common molds I am always on the prowl for include molds designed for the .351 and .401 Winchester self-loaders, molds designed for paper patching, and odd ball cartridges like the 577/450 Martini Henry, 43 Spanish, 43 Mauser, 41 Swiss and 577 Snider.

[nanuk]

Awhile ago, I bought moulds that I thought I might have a need for, or they seemed practical from what I've read, and the price was right for trading fodder.

Now that I've sold/bought/sold rifles, I have several moulds that I doubt I will ever find a need for, but I hold them for the "Kewl" Factor.

my favorite one WOWWER is the SC 462560. Unless I can Beagle it I think the nose will be too small, BUT, I"m working on a buy for a custom barrel/wood for a ruger1/3 that it may just fit for an awesome thumpgun/Hammer. if not, then it too will become trade fodder

[Catshooter]

nanuk,

Yep, that 462560 is thumper. I have one that I milled the gas check off of before I found out that they were an uncommon mould.

I have a 457676. And that dude is a thumper par excelance! Mine cast at 560 gr.


Cat

[Iowa Fox]

My wife and daughter both like to snoop around at rummage sales so they are always looking knowing I am a caster. They have managed to make some good finds for me in the $5 to $20 dollar range. My daughter gets to Davenport once or twice a week for work and that town was a strong hold for casters years ago. She found a as new 456192 from the Barlow days in the box for $10 a few years ago.

The other thing she is on the look out for in Davenport is old Schuetzenverien ribbons, pins, buttons, tools, and old photos. The Davenport Schuetzen park is long gone now with only the trolley pavillion left from the original buildings. James Stelk's writtings indicate as many as 10,000 people would attend a match in the late 1800's. Thats a lot of folks having a good time drinking beer and getting some cast bullets down range. Every little town in the surrounding area had their own Verien.

To the best of my knowledge they still crown a king every year, since 1862.

[beagle]

Oh, you definitely got a gem there. I was corresponding with an old fellow out west several years ago and he was definitely a .348 Winchester fan as I picked up the three popular Lyman .348 moulds and two for the .351 SL from him and three were factory HPs. Naturally, that made my .348 Browning smile and I picked up a .351 SL since then. Hurt my wallet though.

That's a good bullet and well worth having buckshot make a HP pin for./beagle


I found one the other day I think is rare, a Lyman 350457. Need a little clean up, and I'll have to send it to buckshot for a new HP pin, but it was cheap. Dunno what I'll do with it, maybe try some 35 Whelen paperpatch.
http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh259/blcall/SN851634.jpg

[John Boy]

A summary observation: Nearly all the accurate black powder Ideal molds that were made for Schuetzen target shooting in the 32 and 38 calibers. When Lyman bought out Ideal, black powder shooting was at a low ebb v nitro powder shooting, Lyman saw fit to completely void the warehouse of those schematics and cherries.

Examples:
Ideal 375166: When I read that this bullet calculated 17.65 ratio in a 1:18 twist based on a revised Greenhill formula for black powder - I had to have it. There are 2 known 375166 molds in the US. Lyman had no cherry or schematic - from pictures made a schematic and Lou Sellman, a Lyman Distributor convinced Lyman to make a recut ... after he put up $1800 for the cherries. It took me 2 full years for a group buy to have this mold recut. With BP and am sure with smokeless, it is consistently on the money accurate out to 500 meters on the Rams. Bill Loos did put up on eBay, a modified base 375166. I paid $120 for it

Additional ones of note:
* Doc Hudson design of the Ideal 319273 - 319289 - 375272 and 375296.
* WF French design Ideal 319323
* And just found for a 'bargain price, the Ideal 311413 'Squibb', accurate to 600yds for the 30-06
And least we forget, all the Harry Pope bullet molds!

[Huntducks]

i'm still looking on the cheap NO EBAY PRICES for a 257463GC 75gr and a 429348 180gr about 4mo ago I bought out a guy sell casting metal SB/PB and lino he cleaned out the garage for a 96 year old in a rest home in the trash about 20 cans full was a 1/2 doz molds and several hundred lbs of bullets I had been looking for a 358344 and found a 4c with 2c in 358344 and 2c in 35887.

Now if were really talking rare I bought a pair of lyman Harvey prot X 358500 and a 429518 $15 ea with handles and 2 bags of washers I have casted a few bullets but have yet to shoot either weird lookers.