Benefit of using BPI buffer filler

[JeffinNZ]

Team.

I have been shooting my Carcano with 8gr of BPI original shotshell buffer. Last evening I made a couple of new sulphur impressions of the chamber and thought prudent to clean the chamber and barrel afterwards.

I couldn't believe how CLEAN the barrel was after 50-60 rounds of previous cast boolit shooting using the buffer. The patch, soaked in Ed's Red, came out still pink with only a tint of carbon.

The buffer is cleaning the barrel each shot.

[longbow]

I find much the same using Cream 'O Wheat.

Are you using plain base or gas check over the filler?

Longbow

[bkbville]

Jeff,

What is your load - and how did you change it when you went to using the BPI?

Did you do velocity comparisons?

[JeffinNZ]

Longbow - GCed. Have yet to try without.

Bkbville - 25gr H4350, 8gr buffer. Backed off 3-4 grains. 25/8gr produces the MORE velocity than 29gr powder alone.

[geargnasher]

Longbow - GCed. Have yet to try without.

Bkbville - 25gr H4350, 8gr buffer. Backed off 3-4 grains. 25/8gr produces the MORE velocity than 29gr powder alone.

You might want to try a slower powder, like 4831 with that filler, depending on the case volume with the charges you're using.

My take on it is that increase in velocity (due to pressure increase) is probably due to the "bottlenecking" quality of the BPI Original. It compacts tightly and doesn't "flow" at all, creating a restriction at the case shoulder/neck junction, a quality that has been discussed quite heatedly as I'm sure you know here with regard to the Swedish Mauser. Be careful what you're doing here, keep the buffer not too much below the case body/shoulder junction (hence the need for a slower, bulkier powder), just tap the case to settle the filler and DON'T COMPRESS THE FILLER WHEN SEATING THE BOOLIT. I've experimented with this in the Swede and it works very well. Keep an eye on Larry Gibson's thread in special projects, he's working on some pressure data with this filler for the Swede. It does make for a clean barrel.

Gear

[longbow]

Jeff:

I have tried plain base over filler with good success and get about the same results with plain base or gas check base without gas check over filler as I do with gas check and no filler.

I have been using cereal fillers though and have as yet to obtain shotshell buffer but will.

So far I have not noticed anything "bad" at all and several things good.

There is certainly evidence of increased pressure due to slightly flattened primer at 19 grs. of IMR4227 under COW and a Lyman 314299. Nothing significant but the primer is not flattened at all without filler. I have not worked up to a max. load to see how much difference the filler makes in that regard.

I have been finding much improved accuracy using the cast boolits and filler. Certainly not in the league of StarMetal, 45 2.1 and Larry Gibson (and probably many others) but I am seeing much improved performance. Not saying it can't be had other ways but this is working for me.

Longbow

[waksupi]

When shooting cereal fillers, I sometimes found compressed debris left inside the casing after firing. This tells me, that the case capacity was reduced, causing higher pressures. Be careful.

[w30wcf]

Here's another use for PSB. Seals the gas behind undersized bullets and allows them to shoot accurately!

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o25/w30wcf/Leverguns/44-40PSB.jpg

w30wcf

[longbow]

waksupi:

I have been watching carefully since the whole filler issue is a little controversial but so far I have not found any leftovers in the cartridges.

I do plan on trying the shot buffer since so far I have found no bad issues using the cereal filler and I have to think the buffer would have all the same advantages with non of the potential disadvantages such as packing, moisture absorption, etc.

I started using COW after reading David Southall's article on .303british.com and having e-mail discussions with him.

Another thing is that I am using COW in .303 British which does not have a very pronounced shoulder ~ not much to hang up on.

I do appreciate the words of warning though and am keeping a watchful eye for anything not right.

What cartridge(s) were you finding leftovers in?

Thanks,
Longbow

[geargnasher]

waksupi:

I have been watching carefully since the whole filler issue is a little controversial but so far I have not found any leftovers in the cartridges.

I do plan on trying the shot buffer since so far I have found no bad issues using the cereal filler and I have to think the buffer would have all the same advantages with non of the potential disadvantages such as packing, moisture absorption, etc.

I started using COW after reading David Southall's article on .303british.com and having e-mail discussions with him.

Another thing is that I am using COW in .303 British which does not have a very pronounced shoulder ~ not much to hang up on.

I do appreciate the words of warning though and am keeping a watchful eye for anything not right.

What cartridge(s) were you finding leftovers in?

Thanks,
Longbow

COW flows a heck of a lot better than BPI Original, too. More like some of the beaded shot buffers, and pressure increase is considerably less. The .30-30 can be loaded with near a caseful of COW and a pinch of Bullseye and still work. Wish I still had my .303 to play with, got disgusted and sold it before I knew anything about how to make a rifle shoot cast.

Gear

[waksupi]

The .358 Winchester comes to mind immediately, as that is what I shoot the most. Considering the small shoulder area, I would think other chamberings based on the .308, would be worse for the condition, since the neck area is smaller.


waksupi:

I have been watching carefully since the whole filler issue is a little controversial but so far I have not found any leftovers in the cartridges.

I do plan on trying the shot buffer since so far I have found no bad issues using the cereal filler and I have to think the buffer would have all the same advantages with non of the potential disadvantages such as packing, moisture absorption, etc.

I started using COW after reading David Southall's article on .303british.com and having e-mail discussions with him.

Another thing is that I am using COW in .303 British which does not have a very pronounced shoulder ~ not much to hang up on.

I do appreciate the words of warning though and am keeping a watchful eye for anything not right.

What cartridge(s) were you finding leftovers in?

Thanks,
Longbow

[longbow]

I would not have thought that .358 Win would be problem.

I could certainly see .308 or .243 being of concern or ~ any large bodied steep shouldered cartridge for that matter.

Just goes to show you, one shouldn't assume.

I started out with light charges and using direction from others who had used fillers but recognize that there "issues" to be aware of.

I am following the 6.5 Swede thread with much interest.

Longbow

[JeffinNZ]

I agree about the sharp shoulder, small bore. I wouldn't want to run BPI in a 6.5 Rem mag for example.

[Nrut]

Here's another use for PSB. Seals the gas behind undersized bullets and allows them to shoot accurately!

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o25/w30wcf/Leverguns/44-40PSB.jpg

w30wcf
Thanks for posting that w30wcf..
A light just started flicking back in the recesses of my dimly lit mind.. :shock:

[handloder]

Just a thought for users of cereal fillers...
I believe it is prudent to sieve the Cream of Wheat type cereal fillers as they will contain wide variations (box-to-box) of "fines". I have settled on the 20-40mesh cut (the cut below 40 mesh is pretty much "dust"). Always plan to make these reloads with freshly sieved cereal as the cereal 'particles' will naturally crack/disintegrate with time possibly causing unexpected performance problems. Try to keep these reloads under 30 days old.

[curator]

I have found compressed COW on the inside of case shoulder areas when used in 6.5X55 Swedish mauser and ,223 Remington cast loads. The same loads using plastic shot buffer showed less primer flattening and no compressed filler on the inside of cases. COW seems to work best for me in cases without a dramatic bottleneck. Cartridges like .303 british, .35 Whelen, .30-30 Win are OK. Cases with more severe bottleneck like the 6.5X55 that may seem to require filler appear to benefit from using a filler that "flows" like Plastic Spherical Shot Buffer or Puf-lon.

[geargnasher]

I have found compressed COW on the inside of case shoulder areas when used in 6.5X55 Swedish mauser and ,223 Remington cast loads. The same loads using plastic shot buffer showed less primer flattening and no compressed filler on the inside of cases. COW seems to work best for me in cases without a dramatic bottleneck. Cartridges like .303 british, .35 Whelen, .30-30 Win are OK. Cases with more severe bottleneck like the 6.5X55 that may seem to require filler appear to benefit from using a filler that "flows" like Plastic Spherical Shot Buffer or Puf-lon.

Just remember that not all plastic shot buffers are created equal and there are VAST differences in pressures from one to another. One shouldn't use, for example, BPI Origninal in place of Pufflon without reinventing the load from scratch. The compacting fillers (not spherical) allow use of slower burning powders, so one should really think outside the box when using it. The free-flowing fillers don't make that much difference, in fact Pufflon themselves recommend only a 10% reduction in charge weight IIRC.

Gear

[giz189]

Just my .02 worth, but primer flattening can be caused by a number of things from over pressure to pushing the shoulder back to far on the case with the resizing operation. Hard to tell which one is causing it. But from what I understand, if you have a primer flattening because of over pressure, according to some of the "experts", I have read, you have surpassed the safe pressure by many thousands of psi already. Can't remember where I read it, maybe Ken Ohler...

[ulav8r]

I used COW in a .308W load years ago. The bullet was a Speer 130Grn and about 7 grains of Unique. That was in 1968 and I have not seen my notes in years so DO NOT use this load without taking full precautions. I had tried reducing loads to minimum and at about 4.5-5 grains of Unique and no filler, a bullet just barely made it out of the barrel. The first filler tried was dacron fiber and it left residue in the bore so I switched to COW. Don't remember if I later used it in 30/30 but I think not because of worms in the COW that had been around for a while.

Next time I start loading more cast bullets in the 30/30, I will probably try the COW again.

[BOOM BOOM]

hi,
Just a thought, could the residue be the result of moisture.
I think one should dry a ceral filler in an oven at about 200* for 1-2 hr. , then load it within 24 hrs. as all ceral COW, GRITS, CORNMEAL may be hydroscopic.

WAkSUPI did you dry the cow first?