Greenhorn Questions, Stupid is, Stupid does.

[Greenhorn44]

I am as green as they come. 2 weeks ago I bought my 1st lyman manual. Now I have everything to load boolits. Went crazy i did. If your going to do something. Git'r'dun. Read the manual front to back.....still I have questions.....read the lee 2nd edition front to back... still have the same questions.

1. Im loading 44 mag cast bullets and I am trying to perfect the roll crimp like winchester. Whats the best techniqe for setting up the bullet seat and crimp die. (Its the lee set that came with my loadmaster, gonna wait to break out the rcbs dies i got from BPS when im smart enough not to destroy them).
2. Would a factory crimp die work better for 44mag.
3. How much lube is enough.[smilie=b:

I really have many more questions than this, But it is my duty to my Pioneers to this trade to ask the right questions in the right thread topics.

-Whoever smelt it , delt it.

[buck1]

I am as green as they come. 2 weeks ago I bought my 1st lyman manual. Now I have everything to load boolits. Went crazy i did. If your going to do something. Git'r'dun. Read the manual front to back.....still I have questions.....read the lee 2nd edition front to back... still have the same questions.

1. Im loading 44 mag cast bullets and I am trying to perfect the roll crimp like winchester. Whats the best techniqe for setting up the bullet seat and crimp die. (Its the lee set that came with my loadmaster, gonna wait to break out the rcbs dies i got from BPS when im smart enough not to destroy them).
2. Would a factory crimp die work better for 44mag.
3. How much lube is enough.[smilie=b:

I really have many more questions than this, But it is my duty to my Pioneers to this trade to ask the right questions in the right thread topics.

-Whoever smelt it , delt it.

1 Seat and crimp in two seprate operations(best way) Or adjust the seating depth with the die high in the press(no crimp yet) and the seat stem low in the die(seats boolit with out crimping). Then raise the seater stem all the way up in the die, and adjust the crimp( Adjusting crimp on boolit already seated) . Now lock your die ring, then lower the seater stem to contact the boolit.
2. NO
3.Tumble lube takes a light coating, But in my opinion TL is not enugh for the .44 mag (none agree on this). MY .02...Buck

[kbstenberg]

Greenhorn no question is a dumb question. If you have a prob. at least a dozen others have been in the same situation.
I agree with everything that was told you in the last message. If i could tell you WHY
#2 A lot of times the factory crimp die (by any manufacturer) will decrease the bullet size. Which will cause a leading prob.
#3 Are you useing a boughten cast bullet a bullet you cast or a jacketed bullet?
How are you determining the size of the bullet you are to shoot?
These are a few of the questions other members will ask to help you on your way.
Kevin

[Greenhorn44]

Just ran my very first 50 rounds through the Lee Loadmaster. I set the roll crimp but the roll was minimal. 1.610 is the proper length of a 44mag. But the Bought cast bullet has a crimp sleeve/pocket alittle to far back on it. when I crimped one at that point of the bullet. It looked good but measured 1.770.
I set the bullet seater to the proper length on one with a good crimp it buckeled the case out about half way down the case.
I plink at the indoor range with 240 grain jacketed. So i just figures 240 cast bullet would be a good start
Is that a good size bullet for plinkin paper, or since im reloading myself should I switch it up.
A Big Thanks

[Greenhorn44]

Had to seat the bullet alittle deep to get my OAL of 1.610 It should be safe, though i heard it may increase the pressure abit, I just hope not to much

[1hole]

I read and I chuckle. BT,DT. None of use were born knowing any more than you.


"1. Im loading 44 mag cast bullets and I am trying to perfect the roll crimp like winchester. Whats the best techniqe for setting up the bullet seat and crimp die. (Its the lee set that came with my loadmaster, gonna wait to break out the rcbs dies i got from BPS when im smart enough not to destroy them).

First, you ain't gonna destroy any dies. They are a LOT stronger than our cases.

Set your seater/crimper die in three stages:
1) raise the die off the press a couple of turns and first seat your bullets to the OAL you wish by screwing the seating stem down.
2) raise the seating stem well off contact with your seated bullet and then screw the die body down until you get the degree of crimp you like, lock the die ring there.
3) screw the seater plug down until it's in firm contact with the seated bullet.

That's it. You may want to tweak the seating depth or crimp a bit but it will be easy to do from where you are. And you will quickly find that slight variations in case length can make significant differences in the degree of crimp you get, not usually enough to make any difference in the shooting tho.

Only greenhorns worry much about seating to a book OAL. Most books list what they used to develop their data but it's no more a law than their listed powder charges. Seating a LOT deeper will raise chamber pressure but not enough to blow your hand off unless you were at an absolute max before seating deeper. In many years of reloading, I've never paid any attention to book OAL at all. I seat handgun bullets at the crimping groove and vary rifle seating until I find the seating point for best accuracy for each rifle and load.


"2. Would a factory crimp die work better for 44mag. "

Lee's Factory Crimp Dies are the best of their type in the opinion of many but some don't like 'em. I do.


"3. How much lube is enough."

Bullet lube or case lube?

It's almost certain your handgun sizer dies are carbide and, while a little case lube does let them work smoother, lube is not neccessary.

Case lube IS neccessary for bottle neck cases tho. Be sure to fully cover the lower,thicker part of the cases with a continuous thin layer of a proper lube or they WILL get stuck and you'll pull the rim off trying to remove them from the die. Then you will need a stuck case remover. Well, except for cases stuck in Lee dies. For them you just remove the decaping rod holding nut/collar, then use a hammer to drive the rod down and push the stuck case out; works good and won't hurt a thing.

IF your muzzle has a clearly visable coat of sprayed bullet lube after firing a few cast bullet rounds, usually in a "star" pattern, you have more lube than is really needed but it does no harm. I LIKE to see that lube star, it reduces the likelyhood of leading the bore!


Note to greenhorns; Loading dies do NOT need to be installed in a press any more than finger/hand tight.

[Echo]

I am as green as they come. 2 weeks ago I bought my 1st lyman manual. Now I have everything to load boolits. Went crazy i did. If your going to do something. Git'r'dun. Read the manual front to back.....still I have questions.....read the lee 2nd edition front to back... still have the same questions.

Now read 'em back to front. Can't read too much.

1. Im loading 44 mag cast bullets and I am trying to perfect the roll crimp like winchester. Whats the best techniqe for setting up the bullet seat and crimp die. (Its the lee set that came with my loadmaster, gonna wait to break out the rcbs dies i got from BPS when im smart enough not to destroy them).

+1 for seating and crimping in two stages. As long as the bullet doesn't stick out in front of the cylinder, your OAL is OK.

2. Would a factory crimp die work better for 44mag.

Haven't used the Lee FC, so can't comment. Others have dissed the FC for pistol boolits.

3. How much lube is enough.[smilie=b:

I assume you are asking re boolit lube. The lube star mentioned above is a good indicator. If it's there you are using enough - maybe too much, but that's much better than not enough.

I really have many more questions than this, But it is my duty to my Pioneers to this trade to ask the right questions in the right thread topics.

The other guys here are the Pioneers, not me. I've been doing it for years (decades?), but am still learning.


-Whoever smelt it , delt it.

Ask away, Mate - we are here to serve...

[AZ-Stew]

From what I've read, you're seating your boolits .160 deeper than they would be if you crimped in the crimp groove. That's A LOT. By that, I mean you're making a major change in the volume of the case. If I'm not mistaken, I saw in another post that you're using 10.8gr of Unique for this load. That's a fairly hot load with the proper case volume. As long as a loaded cartridge fits the cylinder, it will work properly. The OAL given in manuals is a SAAMI spec that ensures loaded rounds will fit in every gun ever chambered for that cartridge. If your gun allows it, a longer length is no problem at all.

What you've done is seat your boolit a LOT farther than its design depth. It takes up too much of the case volume and will increase pressures. As someone else said, use a bullet puller to get the bullets out past where they belong, then seat them to the crimp groove. Safety first!

Regards,

Stew

[Greenhorn44]

I will do. Everything I have read in my books says to pull the boolit.

Peer pressure is a pain. But i bet a revolver blowing up in yer hand hurts worse

[Shiloh]

I echo what Echo said!! ;-)

There are so many knowledgeable folks on this board. Thousands of years of combined knowledge. I am a better caster, loader, and shooter of cast bullets because of this sight. Ask your questions without fear.

Shiloh

[cajun shooter]

I remember in 1970 when my buddy and I were loading some 357 mags for our new S&W 19's. I ran out of 357 mag cases and just put the same load in some 38 spl. cases that I had. The load was a max load of course as all greenhorns load till she blows. Well as luck would have it we stopped at the local gun store on our way to the range and I told the owner what I had done. He turned pale and ask if i had fired any yet and I said no; we are going now. He said David please go and bring all those rounds to me. He unloaded all of them and explained what could have happened to me had I fired them. Thankd God I talked about my reloading.

[mdi]

I personally don't use a factory crimp die. I have a gun with a bore of .432" and the Lee Factory Crimp Die swages the case/boolit down too much for good shootin' in my Puma.

[Greenhorn44]

I went ahead and back them boolits out alittle. put a real nice roll crimp on the crimp groove, chambers well. I feel that I did the right thing, by backing them out. looking foward to trying them out tomorrow.
My First 50 rounds, its a good feeling. Thanks for all your guys knowledgable input.
There is only so much information you can gather from manuals.

[jlchucker]

I personally don't use a factory crimp die. I have a gun with a bore of .432" and the Lee Factory Crimp Die swages the case/boolit down too much for good shootin' in my Puma.

Every gun is different. I use the Lee Factory Crimp die in my 44 Mag Winchester trapper and my EMF Hartford (Puma when sold by other companies) and have no trouble with either. Speaking of Lee Factory Crimp dies--there are two versions. One is for rifle cases, and the other for pistol. The rifle ones work in the fashion of a collet--and they won't swage cases or boolits down from lateral forces. Only the small diameter at the top part of the collet touches the case to do the crimping, and this part exerts sideways force to give you a crimp. The pistol version (357, 44, 45 etc) is self contained, and probably could give problems when loading ammo for oversize bores. I may be lucky with my own loads, because I haven't had to use .432 boolits (yet). I don't know if Lee would open up a 44 FC die or not. You'd have to contact them.

[Slow Elk 45/70]

You are doing fine....you need to remember that the information in the manuals is a one size fits all deal.....some pistols have longer chambers than others, moving the boolit up or down from the factory crimp grove , should not raise the pressure enough to matter using Cast Boolits...unless you are running Max+++ loads IMHO , and I have loaded and shot many thousands of cast over the years...it is good to be careful, but no one here will lead you astray....when you ask questions like this, include the weapon and powder grains/type with the question for better answers.... lots of folks use 240-250gr boolits in the 44mag for GP shooting and hunting.....good luck and no question is stupid, unless you don't ask it !!!

[Greenhorn44]

Hats off to all, I appriciate it.