Ok, honeslty should I bother reloading for the .303?

[sheepdog]

I heard next to AKs that Enfields destroy brass faster than any surplus rifle around due to excess flow, head space, and extraction methods.

I'm getting a pretty decent 4,1 from a friend so considering reloading for it as I have the moulds for .311. So before I run out and buy fresh brass what am I getting myself into? Would I be better off sticking to loading for the 03A3 and my nagant?

[Bloodman14]

Sheepdog, just a few tips; when you get your brass, fireform it using a light boolit, and then NECK SIZE ONLY after that. The two LE's that I have are still using brass that I bought 15 years ago. I lost track of how many times I've reloaded it; the only sorting system that I use is the Mk 2 gets Winchester brass, and the Mk 1* gets Remington, S&B, etc. Slug the bore, and if you need some for testing, I would be more than happy to send you 20 or so boolits from the 316299 Mod that SwedeNelson just did. Gotta send some to Dave in the Desert, too.

[Multigunner]

I heard next to AKs that Enfields destroy brass faster than any surplus rifle around due to excess flow, head space, and extraction methods.

I'm getting a pretty decent 4,1 from a friend so considering reloading for it as I have the moulds for .311. So before I run out and buy fresh brass what am I getting myself into? Would I be better off sticking to loading for the 03A3 and my nagant?

I reload for my No.1 and No.4 rifles, and stories you've heard about the average Enfield being hard on brass are true, but there are ways to get around that.

If you intend to load cast boolits at moderate velocities then I'd buy some new unfired brass and for first firing use the light cast boolit loads only to avoid stretching an annular ring inside the case, thats where they crack. Neck size only of course. Once fire formed to the chamber by several light loads any load within the SAAMI specs won't damage the brass further.

On first firing I mark the case rim then next time I use that case I rotate it 180 degrees, after second firing the case is evenly expanded to fit the chamber perfectly.

I have tightened up the head gap on both my Enfields, they are much tighter than you've likely to find. After replacing the worn bolt body of my No.4 I got a no.3 Bolthead as well, it now has less than .004 headgap with the Remington cases I use. The No.1 had good headspace but worn threads at the bolthead so I found a source for unissued replacement No.1 Bolt Bodies and hand fitted a new one. This took all the slack out of bolthead fit and reduced the headgap a bit as well.

I've heard that Privi Partizan brass is the best for reloading, its thicker at the rim and doesn't stretch much. I haven't tried it yet.

Some have used a bit of fishing line or a very thin o-ring as a spacer for the rim to eliminate stretching on first firing with full power loads, it seems to work well with reports of 30+ reloads per case.

[sheepdog]

Ok so
Grab a box of privi
Shoot through it with cases marked for orientation
Slug bore for sizing
Load moderate loads keeping orientation
Neck size only

[Cactus Farmer]

Ditto on the advice so far.....if I can load for my 32 S&W and .303, you can too.
Neck size and find a boolit that fits,Paper patching is easy and works very well to get a good boolit fit on worn oversized bores.
I like the slower burning powders and although it uses a little more by weight than the pistol varities, I find better accuracy in the big volume cases if the case is fuller. The added velosity is a big plus too, some of these cactus eating jack rabbits(yea,I know they are hares) are tough and I so enjoy seeing the vapor after a good center body hit. The coyotes have to search for the smaller pieces.:redneck:

[Hip's Ax]

I haven't shot cast through my Enfields yet, but, Steve Ridgewell has a great site (303british.com) and years ago I read his site and took his advice. A lot of that advice is already been said but here's what I did for my No4Mk2.

Set headspace between civilian go and nogo with higher number bolt heads
Neck size only, I use the Lee Collet die and LOVE it
When chambering gets hard use a Redding body die to knock the shoulder back

I don't have all that many firings on my brass yet but reportedly this process really makes your brass last as long as possible.

Hope this helps.

[Recluse]

I heard next to AKs that Enfields destroy brass faster than any surplus rifle around due to excess flow, head space, and extraction methods.

I'm getting a pretty decent 4,1 from a friend so considering reloading for it as I have the moulds for .311. So before I run out and buy fresh brass what am I getting myself into? Would I be better off sticking to loading for the 03A3 and my nagant?

The only way I get consistent, accurate ammo for my .303 is by reloading it. Since the rifles are surplus, everyone (obviously) shoots different based on its condition. Reloading in order to find the "sweet load" is the only way I can trust that anything I fire out of my Enfield MkIII will go where I want it to go.

All of the advice about fireforming and then neck-sizing only is spot on. One other caveat--anneal the necks every five to seven firings.

The down-under guys can give you metric tons worth of incredibly spot-on advice. JeffinNZ and .303 Man have this caliber down better than the original inventors.

:coffee:

[Pirate69]

Sheepdog,
I think you should forget about reloading and send that rifle to me. I will put it with my four 303s. :bigsmyl2: In case you decide not to ship it to me, it can be a lot of fun to reload and shoot. I have a Lee 160 grain mold that is dropping boolits at 0.314". None of my bores exceed that diameter so I am good to go on the concern for being under bore size.

I have shot light loads of 6-8 grains of RedDot without a GC, 16 grains of 2400 with and without a GC and 25 grains of IMR 4895 with GC. Also tried a light load of Bullseye but can't remember the charge at the moment. The 16 grains of 2400 without a GC gave me some experience in mining lead from my bore. All of these loads shot well at 100 yards. Some get downrange faster than others and require a rear sight adjustment to 600 yards plus at 100 yards. The less than 10 grain loads are like shooting a 22 rifle, absolutely no recoil.

I am still learning how to reload for these rifles and I am happy so far. I wanted to be able to shoot a cheap bullet, with a cheap powder charge and still have good accuracy. This fits the bill perfectly. Not sure if I will worry with trying to push the velocity. I can get that with jacketed bullets.

I also bought some demill 7.52 X 54R bullets (0.311") to reload. They shoot as good or better than milsurp 30-06. Not a bad way to get a cheap jacketed load with demilled IMR4895.

[higgins]

Given the options of what's available as surplus now (mostly nasty, corrosive, subject to hangfire, and expensive to boot), commercial ammo, or handloading, there's not much of a decision to be made by an even moderately capable handloader. You can still occasionally find good noncorrosive surplus from Greece or South Africa (berdan primed) in small amounts, but you'll pay almost as much for it as you would for Prvi commercial that Aim Surplus has on their website for 12.95/box. The advice given above is good. Make sure you understand that many No4 rifles have "generous" chamber dimensions, and that the .303 headspaces on the rim, so you can have headspace tight as the bark on a tree and still have cases that may bulge a bit to fill the chamber. Don't panic. Just neck size or minimally FL size and you'll do OK. To minimally FL size, just turn the die down about 1/4 turn until the bolt face just kisses the case head when closed (I know it's subjective, but you'll get the feel of it). Check the fit of all your sized cases before you load them. I minimally FL size for a snug fit in my Enfield with the tightest chamber because I don't want to keep track of separate brass for each Enfield I load for and I've accumulated enough range pickup brass over the years that I don't grieve over losing a case here and there. I haven't used Prvi brass for .303 yet, but have used it in 6.5x55, and I like it.

[Jim]

..... JeffinNZ and .303 Man have this caliber down better than the original inventors.
Oh, Absolutely! I wouldn't even waste time posting questions, I'd just PM these guys. Between them, I KNOW I'd get the answers I need.

[geargnasher]

One more tip, may or may not be applicable to your particular .303: One I used to have would bulge brass to one side near the case head due to oversized chamber, this played hoc with accuracy unless I marked the case heads for orientation and chambered them with aid of a flashlight. The fix was to fireform them with a narrow strip of masking tape around the case head just forward of the extraction groove, kept the round centered during firing for an even stretch. The chamber was also very slightly elliptical, so I honed out my FL die to *just* squeeze the body enough to chamber in any orientation. As with any advice, use caution and good judgement when doing this.

Gear

[Multigunner]

Ok so
Grab a box of privi
Shoot through it with cases marked for orientation
Slug bore for sizing
Load moderate loads keeping orientation
Neck size only

The case should be turned 180 degrees on second firing. That way from second firing onwards the firing pin indentation will be very neary dead center, and the case equally expanded to fill out the chamber.

I prefer to keep the majority of my loads assembled on fresh unfired cases in reserve, using only the same small number of cases for shooting over and over till they are retired, more often due to cuts in the neck or shoulder from bad feed lips than any other cause.
That way I always have a good supply of proven loads that I can use in either of my Enfields or use with other Enfields.

Due to my No.4 having minimum headspace cases fire formed in it have so far fit every other Enfield I've tried them in. The very slightly looser headgap of my No.1 and different chamber shoulder profile prevents use of cases formed in the No.1 from being used in the No.4.

Remember that due to the case shoulder filling out to fit the always loose chamber shoulder that fire formed cases have a slight increase in case capacity.
Not a problem unless one were working up max loads in a fireformed case then using the same load in an unfired case.

A case fireformed to individual chambers should always give a much higher level of accuracy than a factory or mil surp load fired for the first time in the loose military chambers.

British range manuals give a 4 inch group at 100 yards as being the best you can expect with the military ball, With Taylored to the rifle Handloads My No.4 is a sub MOA rifle.

[Shiloh]

If it was mine, the answer is YES!! WHy wouldn't you??

Shiloh

[1874Sharps]

The Brits made a great battle rifle when they made the 303. The headspace is on the rim of the cartridge and the chambers of the SMLEs were cut long so that even a muddy, dirty cartridge would chamber. When fired, the shoulder expands out to the front of the over-cut chamber, but there are no headspace problems since the cartridge headspaces on the rim, not the shoulder. This set up does not make for the highest accuracy potentially, but it does do well for reliability in adverse conditions. As other posters have said, if the case is necksized after the first firing, then the cartridge will headspace on both the shoulder and the rim, enhancing the accuracy potential of the rifle, all other things being equal. I have an old WWI SMLE and it shoots quite well with a Lee cast boolit as well as several Lyman boolits and a custom gas check paper patch boolit. These rifles were the best battlefield rifle of WWI in my opinion, with the M1 Garand taking the honors in WWII.

[Multigunner]

[quote]the chambers of the SMLEs were cut long so that even a muddy, dirty cartridge would chamber{/quote]
Actually I looked into this common belief, and found that the generous shoulder clearance was a hold over from the days of the Black Powder pellet loaded .303 cartridge.
Clearance was left losse due to a quality control problem the british had with supplies of .303 ammo from a wide range of sources.
Canadian .303 ammo was strictly within the original royal standard drawings, and Canadian chambers were cut accordingly, they then found that much of the ammo supplied to them by the British was so far out of spec that it wouldn't chamber in the Ross rifles.
The British also found that much of their ammo would not chamber properly in Lewisguns and Maxim guns, so the Flying Corp and RAF began setting aside known good quality ammo for their aircraft guns, marking the crates with a Green Cross, and later commisioning their own ammunition with crates marked with a red spot or label.

Firing a cartridge with more that a slight muddy finger pint on the body could jam an Enfield , and mud at the case neck could blow out the bolthead, even water in the chamber has been said to crack the SMLE action body on the left sidewall.

According to Musketry 1915 many rifles were rendered unservicable by mud getting into the action and chamber. Cartridges were wiped clean with a rag moistened with oil and allowed to dry before use.

A rifle might survive inadvertent firing of ammo with a trace of mud on it, but I would not make a habit of it.

The SMLE reputation for reliability in the mud of the trenches was due to the relative ease with which mud could be removed from the action, magazine, or chamber, under field conditions.

[docone31]

Wow, that is a pretty comprehensive article. I love it.
I must be one of the lucky ones. I have gotten at least 10 or more loads from my American made brass.
I also paper patch. Even though I run full tilt loads, I do not seem to have the issues shown here. When I get loaded ammo, it is only to form the case to load paper patched loads.
When I paper patch, I size to .314. When I load factory, I use .312 bullets rather than .311.
I must be a lucky one. My #1MKIII is the sweetest shooting, easiest to reload, and good looking rifle I have owned. I floated the barrel, useing original military wood.
I just never had any issues with it.

[JeffinNZ]

Hey Big Ed: How good are those XTP's!!!! Man, I used to pull FMJ's from 7.62x39 and put XTP 100gr in for goats and wallabies. Absolutely leveled game on the spot.

[atr]

I find loading successfully for the 303 a CHALLANGE....I have other rifles which are alot easier to reload, especially with cast boolits. But to me, some of the most enjoyable times when I reload is when I can get a challanging rifle to shoot well. I get satisfaction from that.

so to answer your question,,,should you or shouldnt you.....my answer would be "yes" if only for the challange of it.

ps....great comments by all on this thread

[O.S.O.K.]

Boy, not much to add but I will second, third, fourth - whatever the neck sizing and accuracy improvement for handloading.

In particular, I have found that the 200 grain Lyman bore-ridder (gas check) sized to .314" can be shot very accurately out of my SMLE's. I load it to 2000 fps and get exellent results.

If you have excessive headspace, I would get a new bolt head to reduce it to spec as well. Some rifles will cause head separations on the first shot...

Post your results!!

[legend]

MAN,GREAT POST !!

NOW , i understand how to make my # 4 work better.

thank you all.

[budman46]

sheepdog,
excessive chamber dimension/headspace can be overcome by expanding the case neck of your brass with an 8mm-9mm expander ball, then sizing with a .303 die until the bolt just closes, creating a "false shoulder" to establish proper headspace for your gun's chamber. lock the die, then fireform with an appropriate charge. subsequent loadings will fit the chamber properly, increasing the longevity of your brass.
budman

[Brithunter]

Oh boy I must be the luckest man on earth as despite having Five rifles in .303 at the moment, in the past i have had and passed on a further six .303 rifles and at one point was loading for Eigth .303 rifles I have yet to have a case failure on reloaded ammunition. I also don't muck about with cartidge positioning usually just feeding them from the magazine if it has one.

Most of the problems seem to stem from undersized cases. I buy new R.P brass to cut down and form into 6.5x53R brass as it's undersized in the web area and the 6.5mm case is 0.005" smaller at that point. Now if that 0.005" smaller case if fired in a normal .303 chamber it has that 0.005" to expand BEFORE IT REACHES NOMINAL CASE WEB DIAMETER let along expanding to fit the size of the chamber it's being fired it.

It's no wonder the cases fail and you get case head seperations. Now for my normal .303 handloads I use Greek surplus HXP which is boxer primed and seems to be the correct size at the web area to begin with.

In my BSA Model E sporting rifle I use a hot load with Hornady 150 grn SP jacketed bullets for deer hunting. I won't mention the powder charge here but it's one I would not feel comfortable firing through a No1 but the P-14 action handles it comfortably and it does a good number on the deer :-P !

All my .303 rifles that I have now are sporting ones as I sold the last of the Military ones just before Christmas and that was an AC11 ME in .303 of course. The current crop are:-

P-H Supreme No4
BSA Model E
BSA Model C (the restoration project)
Muscat martini carbine
Century Arms P-14 sporter ( that's been re-chambered to .303 Imp).

Now I realise that others have reloadign more 303 cases than i have but my records (which sadly are not fully complete as I sometimes forge to write them down) have in excess of 1000 reloads listed so more than a handlful :p.

[koehn,jim]

I shoot a number 5 and after slugging the barell i went to the 314299 and have great results. I do full length size however as i have several and have great success with case life. The prvi partisan brass is the easiest to get and seems to work best. Good luck . If you want to trade some 314 bullets to try let me know. The bore on SMLE s can sometimes be a bit large. is yous a 2 groove or more .

[PAT303]

I've been loading sized down 324366 8x57 boolits and they shoot very well in my 5 groove enfield and look just like Mk7 military fodder to boot,my two groover is a bore rider only.Plenty of information is available and with the correct case fireforming and sizing you'll get years of shooting out of 100 new cases.Once my supply runs out I'm feeding my enfields Privi brass only,nothings better. Pat

[223tenx]

Springfield Sporters carries bolt heads for the enfield in different sizes to accomodate different headspace. You might be able to eliminate the excessive stretch.

[dukenukum]

MY favorite rifles to cast and load for are .303's these guns rock my favorite bullet is Lyman 308329 this boolit stacks em all in at 100 yards (longest range around me) .
the 303 does not reach its best performance with out hand loads.

[Sailman]

Case life for 303 Enfield

I have a No. 4 MK-1 Enfield

I have been shooting this rifle with 80 cases of 303 Enfield brass. The brass was purchased new and has been shot ONLY in this rifle.

I have a Lee Collet Neck Sizing Die. I have only neck sized the brass after shooting the brass in this rifle.

The following is the history of the eighty (80) 303 cases:

Number Of Times The Brass Was Shot Number Of Cases Replaced With New Brass

20 cases shot 62 times 2
20 cases shot 62 times 4
20 cases shot 62 times 5
20 cases shot 48 times 0

As you can see, it looks like you should be able to get around 50 shots with you brass before you start to get some failures.

Sailman

[zuke]

I had read somewhere to make sure your brass fill's out properly put a black rubber "o-ring" on the case,roll it down to the rim then chamber and fireform.
That make's sure it's tight up against the bolt face and cure's the headspace problem.