Pistol primers used for rifle primers

[DHORNE]

I continue to be more of a lurker on this forum than anything, mostly because of the vast experiance of the members, I spend most of my time reading posts rather than contributing.

That being said, I have a question. I have a surplus of small pistol magnum primers and have recently started reloading .223 cal. for an AR-15. A friend of mine said they would work well for this, instead of buying the rifle primers. Has anyone ever tried this and if so, how do they work. My friend mostly reloads shotgun, and I know that I can get honest opinions here. Will greatly appreciate the advise.

[Baron von Trollwhack]

Er, Ah, Why is it that the very best competitive shooters in the USA do not do this?

But what is fact like that when you have a buddy who loads mostly shotgun and he tells you it works good? BvT

[missionary5155]

Good morning
Yes I do use a pistol primer in some rifle applications BUT
You have to work up the load from the low side as a pistol primer (Depends on brand) may be unable to hold the pressure involed.
Then will it realiably ignite the powder. Some Rifle powders need a hotter longer flame.
Then the primer hole in rifle brass is deeper so will your firing pin be long enough to reach the primer and give it a good smack...
So there are considerations to take into account....
If this is a bolt gun with cast things are much easier.. A semi-auto is a whole new world.
But I do use pistol primers in some applications. Not many but some.

[Russel Nash]

Supposedly, the metal that the outside cup of the primer is made from is either thicker and/or tougher for rifle primers.

The firing pin in an AR's bolt floats...if I am not mistaken.

So theoretically if there is enough inertia there when the bolt slams forward, the firing pin could keep traveling, hitting that supposedly softer pistol primer, and supposedly setting it off....which in turn...could theoretically make the gun go full auto.

:holysheep

Theoretically...

I mistakenly bought a box of small pistol magnum primers and stuffed them into regular 9mm Luger reloads.

I never noticed a difference.

My buddy originally had built a .38 Super USPSA Open division gun for his dad. I was with him the one day at the range when he chrono'ed the .38 Super rounds . He had a couple of batches . One with small pistol primers, and one with small rifle primers.

The chrono records showed that there was no difference between the two.

But....theoretically, since the small rifle primers have a tougher metal cup, it keeps the gases from squeezing around the primer and eroding your bolt or your slide's breechface.

My gut feeling on this is there really is no difference. You could check this for sure, load up five with the small magnum pistol primer and chrono them versus regular small rifle primers...and see what ya get.

Of course, you might want to wait to see what the other more knowledgeable and more experienced reloaders here on the board have to say.

[Russel Nash]

Baron wrote:


Why is it that the very best competitive shooters in the USA do not do this?


The very best competitive shooters are the sponsored ones. They shoot what they are given to reload with, or shoot with. Or whatever they get heavily discounted on.

99.9% of the guys here on this forum aren't sponsored. We have to pay for primers out of our own pockets.

Not to drift this thread too far, but there is another forum I am on, on a regular basis. All the sponsored shooters there give advice to newbies on what to buy....not because it is what works, is cheap, or is good, but rather what or who their sponsors are.

It makes me kinda sick to my stomach....how easily these guys trade off their integrity....

[Lloyd Smale]

if there ccis i was told by cci many years ago that there mag pistol and standard small rifle were the same primers. I dont know if this still holds true but i do know that cci pistol primers have harder cups then anyone else. If it were a differnt brand id be skeptical. Over the last year primers have been tough to find. I found a case of small pistol mag ccis and have shot probably half of them out of my ars without a bit of trouble. Just to be sure i dont load right up to the max. Back of a grain or two from max and youll be fine.

[dale2242]

I think the biggest danger is a slam fire in an AR. I see Remington does not recommend using 6 1/2 rifle primers in any cartridges but 22 Hornet and 218 Bee. I hear the slam fire in ARs is the issue. BTW, I use Rem 6 1/2 in my Contender 223 without problem. they are my preferred primer for the Contender load......dale

[deltaenterprizes]

Federal marketed their small rifle/small pistol magnum primers in the 1980s, I may still have a box.
It may also be the case as with the Remington 6 1/2 primers, designed for the lower pressure small rifle cartridges.

What brand small pistol magnum primers do you have?

[BruceB]

A few months back I bought a new Mini-14 (.223/5.56).

I also bought a couple thousand Remington 6.5 primers, in spite of the recommendation that they NOT be used in .223 etc. Primers were scarce, after all. My new Mini perforated one primer in the first hundred or so fired, and I stopped using the #6.5.

Switching to CCI 400s, I loaded several hundred rounds.....and again perforated a primer in the first hundred or so rounds.

The rifle has now fired almost a thousand rounds, and no further perforations have occurred. I still won't be going back to the #6.5s, though.

I would not substitute pistol primers for rifle primers in ANY autoloading firearm. The chances for screw-ups are just too great, and the pressures involved can be very high. In bolt-action and single-shot firearms using cast bullets, I DO use a lot of pistol primers. That's due to their ignition characteristics.

[KCSO]

The only time I use a pistol priner in a rifle case is with a small charge of fast burning powder and cast bullet loads. I have found that the pistol primer causes the load to be less position sensitive. In a 223 on an AR platform I would want a fairly hard rifle primer.

[Rocky Raab]

Pistol primers are designed to function with the normally weaker springs found in handguns. They are also designed to work at pressures no higher than about 40,000 psi. Both of those design goals are accomplished by having thinner and/or softer cups.

The dangers (as pointed out above) are perforation of the primer, or (in some guns) slam fires. Taking that into consideration, pistol primers should never be used in semi-auto rifles, or in loads that exceed 40,000 psi.

[Freightman]

Made a mistake and loaded some 7.5x55 Mas 47/59 ammo with LP primers instant full auto, on those rifles even LR primers are prone to full auto CCI #34 is all I found that were tough enough.

[Cadillo]

Supposedly, the metal that the outside cup of the primer is made from is either thicker and/or tougher for rifle primers.
The firing pin in an AR's bolt floats...if I am not mistaken.
So theoretically if there is enough inertia there when the bolt slams forward, the firing pin could keep traveling, hitting that supposedly softer pistol primer, and supposedly setting it off....which in turn...could theoretically make the gun go full auto.
:holysheep



Or far worse yet; fire out of battery (aka Slam Fire) with bolt open or only partially closed.

Any rifle with a floating firing pin should be stoked only with ammo using primers hard enough to resist a slam fire situation. Pressure should always be given its due respect.

[JIMinPHX]

I've used pistol primers in lite load lead .223 rounds that were fired in an H&R single shot with good results when rifle primers were not available. That's not really quite the same as what you are asking to do.

[dominicfortune00]

Made a mistake and loaded some 7.5x55 Mas 47/59 ammo

Did you mean 7.5 x 54, maybe?

[Adam10mm]

I use pistol primers in my .223 and .308 subsonic loads but Trailboss is pretty easy to light anyway.

[DHORNE]

Sorry for the late reply, have been out of town for a day or two, a lot of good information. Everything that I have read says that the small pistol primers are the same dimentions but do have a thinner cup wall than the rifle primers, the slam fire issue is what concearnes me with the floating firing pin of the AR.

Thing is I have a bout five thousand magnum small pistol primers and it would have been great if I could have used them, instead of buying more rifle primers.

[DHORNE]

Thye are Remington 5 1/2.

[DHORNE]

Alos found this on another forum, haven't seen any data for this yet.

The 1-1/2 and 5-1/2 are the same as far as the type and amount of primer mix they contain. The 5-1/2 is not a "magnum", by standard terminology, and NO charge weight adjustment is needed compared to the 1-1/2. The difference is in the thickness of the metal in the primer cup, with the 5-1/2 being slightly thicker.

Remington recommends the use of the 5-1/2 for use in 357 Magnum and 40 S&W as it is more resistant to cratering (flowing up around the firing pin) and piercing when fired due to the pressure in those rounds.

[lylejb]

Just a suggestion,

With primers still in short supply, why don't you post a trade in the swappin & sellin section?

With as many members as this board has, you might find someone within driving distance that has what you need, and needs what you have.

Wouldn't hurt anything to try.;)

[DHORNE]

Didn't think about that, good idea! Thanks.

[Cherokee]

Last year I unintentionally loaded 223 with CCI SP primers, not light loads. All 200 went bang in my AR without any problem. I would not intentionaly do it again, just my experience.