Hard cast RBs

[ihunts2much]

I know that hard cast round balls were and are frequently used from large bore guns for heavy or dangerous game to ensure penetration. Wouldn't a hard cast RB boost the performance of medium bore rifles (45 and 50) on medium game (deer size)? Anyone have any experience with this?

[docone31]

IF, if your bore is rust free, the hard cast will go down the tube. As long as the patches do not tear. I have tried hard cast RBs in my .50, and .54. Does ok. Accuracy is a little better with the softer lead, but it does the trick.
I had to pound them to start them. It was like useing .495s with a standard patch. You gotta work to get them in.

[giz189]

I know that hard cast round balls were and are frequently used from large bore guns for heavy or dangerous game to ensure penetration. Wouldn't a hard cast RB boost the performance of medium bore rifles (45 and 50) on medium game (deer size)? Anyone have any experience with this?I have been muzzle loader hunting for many years, and I would use the soft lead RB's only, especially for deer. Given our limited (100 yards)? range and low velocity, the soft RB is really deadly om deer and hogs. IMO:lovebooli

[waksupi]

I've been using WW ball for about 38 years. No complaints from the animals.

[northmn]

Depending on the definition of "hard cast" True hard cast is harder than WW. Hornady or someone sells a hardcast ball and tries to pawn off a plastic sabot to shoot it in for a 50. I believe it is a 480 diameter. For deer I cannot see much improvement, especially for a 50. One individual wrote about casting a harder ball for a 50 to take a moose. He had very good luck with 1/2 pure lead 1/2 WW. Claimed the ball rattled around in the rib cage and the bull dropped where shot. 110 grains of 2f. Whether you would need to go to those lengths for deer I really doubt. About the only real gain would be if you hit bone, but even then at ML ranges I doubt if there would be a gain. Pure lead worked for me. If you get WW for free it may be worth it.

DP

[ihunts2much]

I've been using WW ball for about 38 years. No complaints from the animals.

What calibers have you been using wheel weight balls in? Have you had any solid bone hits? Tell me more!

[2shot]

I have only recovered 2 pure lead RB's from deer. The first was wounded by someone else and came to about 40 yards from my tree stand belowing and coughing. The only shot I had was a head shot because it was facing towards me with it's body behind a tree. The RB hit between the eyes and penetrated the skull and about 12" of backbone. I found the RB under the skin in the neck, the deer dropped right there. The second RB I recovered was a shot from my tree stand at a deer that was a little more than quartering away from me. I pulled the shot into the right ham of that deer and it traversed through the right ham,paunch,ribcage, shoulder and was found under the skin on the left shoulder just in front of the fore leg, 3 feet + of penetration

These two deer were shot with the gun I use the most, a .50 cal. Southern Mountain rifle that I built myself. The load is 85 grains of FFg, Oxyoke prelubed patch and a .490 pure lead round ball. I have shot close to 50 deer with this load and rifle and these are the only two times I have recovered the RB's. I can't imagine wanting more penetration from a load and question the real need for a hard RB.

2shot

[waksupi]

What calibers have you been using wheel weight balls in? Have you had any solid bone hits? Tell me more!

I've used from .43 to .62 for hunting over the years. Bone is no big deal.
The main reason I have shot wheel weights, is many times I didn't have any pure lead available. Both work equally well.

[TCLouis]

Waksupi

Do you find you get less expansion and greater penetration using WW RBs to hunt vs using the lead RB which flattens out and stops against the offside skin?

[waksupi]

Waksupi

Do you find you get less expansion and greater penetration using WW RBs to hunt?

That is how it usually works. No big deal on deer, but I do like a bit more depth for elk and such.

[DwarvenChef]

For big game, Moose Carabou, Elk and such I'm building a 58-62 Hawken. Keeping to the tradition of bigger game... bigger bore :p The more I think about it the more I like the 62 :)

[oldfart1956]

Fellers I figgered I'd just jump in here and ramble on a bit. As for the orig. question..it depends on your take on performance. Harder balls will penetrate further than soft balls especially if they hit bone. No doubt about it. And they can be driven at higher velocity. Here's why. At some point you'll drive a soft ball so fast it expands so rapidly you'll lose penetration because of the expansion. A flat disc doesn't penetrate well. The hard ball retains it's shape and keeps on chuggin'. But what about accuracy? I shoot smoothbores so for me it's a moot point. Rekkin you'll have to try it and see how it shoots in your particular rifled gun and if the accuracy is acceptable or not. Something I hope ya'll understand is that when you find the ball on the off-side hide of a broadside shot deer... it's not a good sign. Note...I said broadside shot. What happened was the ball stopped too soon. It didn't "expend all its energy" inside the deer. It stopped. You'll never drive a roundball fast enough to achieve "hydrostatic shock"... whateverinell that is. Either yer driving the soft ball so fast it's expanding too much to penetrate thru and thru or the range is too great. (If the ball isn't expanded I'd suspect the latter) I'm a firm believer in having 2 holes in deer. Since they seldom stand still long enough for me to load a 2nd. shot, I want an inny and a outie. A harder ball might do it..a bigger one definatly will. Just my ra,blin' thoughts fellers. Audie..the Oldfart..

[northmn]

Likely the original "hard" round ball were hardened with tin to possibly 1-20? It really does not take that much to harden them. While I do believe a pure lead round ball can be driven too fast, that would only be a close range issue. After 50 yards I doubt if it would much matter. I also feel that there is too many attempts at "magnimizing" the smaller calibers. The current use of the 50 for a standard in modern zip guns is an example. A 50 is probably one of the best all around deer rifles with round ball, whether with pure lead or a slightly hardened ball, but if more power is wanted then get a big bore. Most that have used a 58 are quite impressed with its performance on deer. A 62 would also be fine for bigger stuff.

Norrthmn

[Odinbreaker]

I like a little smaller diameter ball if cast hard they usually cast a bit larger. I than use a thicker patch For instance if you usually cast a 535 for 54 go to a 530 or even a 520. I also like an over powder felt was.

[Lead Fred]

A 45 cal ball going out my 42 inch barrel at 2000fps has gone though everything Ive shot at.

I only have used pure lead. I have enough to last my life time, and my grandsons.

If We ever did run out, Id use WW in a heatbeat

[10 ga]

I asked similar ? a while back. See thread. Best 10 ga

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=70345&highlight=Harder+elk

[44man]

You will never drive a pure lead ball fast enough to stop penetration in a traditional muzzle loader. I have killed a few tons of deer with .45's to .54's and never recovered a ball.
Hard lead ruins accuracy. It either needs to be so small and rely on a cloth patch or it needs beat in with a hammer that will cut the patch.
The ideal fit is to have a ball large enough and a patch thick enough to engrave the ball .005" IN THE GROOVES. If you punch in a ball and patch, then pull it (Easy with a large cloth piece.) and do not see the weave of the cloth engraved into the groove portion of the ball, it is wrong.
Add fouling when trying to load a hard ball in the field and you will just wind up going home to fix the gun.
I use a .535" ball in my .54 with a .022" patch and a .445" ball in the .45 with the same patch. For target with the .45 I use a .450" ball and a .012" patch. I have shot all day with both, over 200 shots using Young Country lube without ever wiping the bore.
With my .54 I have hit 4 out of 5 steel chickens at 200 meters off hand and brought home thousands of dollars in groceries and prizes. No deer has EVER gotten away hit with any of my muzzle loaders out over 100 yards. I would not fear shooting any animal with my .54.
This is what you should get with pure lead at 50 yards.

[44man]

Here is 5 shots at 100 meters off hand with my .54.
Yeah, I wiggle a little, sorry for that.

[Hanshi]

Pure lead has always worked for me on deer, even large ones. I prefer to use pure lead in all my guns that have grooves inside the bore. Pure lead can sometimes be a bit troublesome to come by as a few of you might be able to confirm. WWs are not so hard to locate. I think I'll save my lead for rifles and use ww metal in my smoothy.