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Butcher45
02-21-2010, 03:20 PM
Sent my tuned 2tube Sam Yang 909 .454 in to have some work done on the exhaust valve, and the fill check valve. I have to wonder just how long that exhaust valve had been distorted, because this 909 is now shooting harder than it ever has since I have had it. MUCH harder. Here are some numbers.

Note how a small change in the psi fill here and there can really dial-in a shot string to a tight fps variance (similar to adjusting a powder charge in powder-burners). Only enough room to get 6 ft back from the chrony today, instead of my usual 10 ft. I will need to confirm these numbers with the chrony set 10 feet from the muzzle, but I feel they are accurate due to the consistency, and the way the rifle was shooting (hard).

Hornady .457RoundBall
3000psi
886.3=249fpe
874.3=242fpe
859.3=239fpe

Hornady .457RoundBall
3100psi
873.2=242fpe
865.3=237fpe
843.9=226fpe

Hornady .457RoundBall
3200psi
870.4=240fpe
876.6=244fpe
858.1=233fpe

BigLube ROA's 210grains approx BHN9 alloy
3000
767.4=274fpe
773.1=278fpe
764.7=272fpe
744.9=258fpe

BigLube ROA's 210grains approx BHN9 alloy
3100psi
743.3=257fpe
771.2=277fpe
769.5=276fpe
758.7=268fpe

BigLube ROA's 210grains approx BHN9 alloy
3150psi
748.6=261fpe
773.6=279fpe
775.3=280fpe
767.8=274fpe

BigLube ROA's 210grains approx BHN9 alloy
3200psi
750.6=262fpe
780.9=284fpe***
780.8=284fpe***
758.4=268fpe

Sure Fire Raptors (?215-220grains?)
3000psi
735
742.6
743.1

Lee ROA's 220grain (from BHD)
3000psi
744.6=270fpe
764.8=285fpe
751.6=276fpe
730

Big Lube PRS 255grain .452 (to small)
3000psi
669.8
686.4=266fpe
699.7=277fpe
689.8=269fpe

245grain REAL's from BHD, labeled ".457 un-sized"
3000psi
706.1=270
712.8=276
715.7=278
695.9=263 (this REAL was from a different batch)

Lyman Maxi Hunters 255grains (only had two)
3200psi
673.3=256fpe
696.7=274fpe
693.4=272fpe (this third shot was a .452 PRS 255grain)

Comments: I'm always trying to dial my rifle in to shoot four shots per fill with no more than 20fps maximum variance in fps (preferably 15 or less).

As far as the good-old, in-efficient roundball goes I like the 3200psi string the best but don't think it is worth the extra 200psi in the fill. So I'll go with the 3000psi fill until I can see what 3050psi looks like. Should work OK even though the 3000psi string falls well outside my maximum 20fps variance goal. Roundball has always shown the highest fps variance in a string out of everything I shoot out of this rifle. EPP/UG's are much more consistent.

The BigLube ROA 210grainer looks like it has a lot of potential...though I have no idea if it is an accurate slug or not. Wasn't having much luck shooting it a couple weeks ago in a friends gun. With a little more experimentation with the fill pressure, I think I can get that fourth shot in there.

The 220grain Lee ROA design has once again proven itself to be the winner in the fpe department (285fpe!) with only one fill pressure being tested. The Lee ROA is commonly known for both it's power, and accuracy......a really good boolit for the SamYangs.

I think the 245grain REAL's have as high a probablity as any boolit out there to produce very tight maximum fps variances in SamYang barrels, for the most shots possible. Only had enough (almost) for one shot string, and it stayed within my maximum 20fps variance for a four shot string. Excellent.

Oh yeah. Can't forget to mention the all-time fps king of the hill. The "X-Ring" rubber pellets! I'd venture to guess they weigh about 16grains in .45 They punch a very neat hole in cardboard, and seem to be fairly accurate at about 20 feet.
These can be re-used, and are just the ticket for very close range vermin duty around the house should you have neighbors very close by (so long as they don't mind the NOISE!).
It will be fun trying to get a really tight string out of these. The first three numbers look very promising in that regard. I'll try to take a sqwerl with one sometime just for kicks (headshot). I wouldn't ever want to get hit with one of these, rubber or not!

X-Ring rubber pellets (guessing 15grains for now.... the 44 version is said to be about 13grains)
3000psi
1433fps=68fpe
1398fps=65fpe
1399fps=65fpe
1331fps=59fpe
Buckshot
02-22-2010, 03:12 AM
.............So you refill after each 3 to 4 shots?

............Buckshot
buck1
02-22-2010, 09:47 AM
Whats your alloy butcher?
scrapcan
02-22-2010, 11:08 AM
How long does it take to reach the required pressure with the Hill pump?

Do you have access to used large bore airguns? They are just not very common in this area.
Butcher45
02-22-2010, 02:16 PM
.............So you refill after each 3 to 4 shots?

............Buckshot

Yes....because my criteria for a shot string is a fps deviance of no more than 20fps, which means 4 shots with this particular rifle. All four of those shots will perform on a critter the exact same way, and they will all hit where I aim. . The fifth shot will be plenty good enough as well.....if I ever need it I will not forget that it's there. I have to set the parameters for performance somewhere, so I refill before I reach more than a 20fps maximum variance.

It's may be possible to get a 5 shot string within 20fps with this rifle (my buddy's stock 909 gets at least 6 shots@around 600-610fps using 250grainers), but that's going to be a bit tricky. Might require a more accurate fill pressure than I am able to provide my rifle every single time.



Whats your alloy butcher?

I still haven't started casting my own yet. When I do, I will be casting them using lead/tin alloy with a BHN between 6 and 10 or so. Some guys say pure lead works best, and for some boolits it may. With some boolits (from Springfield Slim) I have recorded results superior to the pure lead when shooting the approx BHN9 alloy.



How long does it take to reach the required pressure with the Hill pump?

Do you have access to used large bore airguns? They are just not very common in this area.

When using the HillPump (manual method) it takes me about three or four minutes of pumping to refill the air reservoir after I have taken four shots. When refilling using one of my carbon fiber SCBA tanks, it takes about 25 seconds.

The used bigbore airgun market........well you can find a nice deal on a used Korean gun here....

http://www.network54.com/Forum/79574/

Research sellers (and buyers) here.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/406412/


The used market isn't really a viable option for the domestic bigbores IMO. When it comes to the DAQ guns, people will advertise their well-used and abused DAQ bigbores for almost twice the money DAQ sells a new one (I call these people "scalpers"). This is residual from the days there wasn't any competition readily available, and those days are gone so the price for second/third/fourth hand DAQ's should go down soon.

Also, beware of people selling bigbores that they have just recently bought. There are a lot of "polished turds" popping up on the used market (very poor builds).

For the same money scalpers are selling used DAQ's for, you can buy a brand new Gargoyle, which is arguably the most advanced, and the very best bigbore airgun on the market. And you won't have to wait long (if at all) to get one.

The Gargoyle has three valvestems that can be swapped out quick and easy. The low-powered valve will give you a bunch of 300fpe shots with roundball. The "regular" valve is intended for slugs weighing up to 250grains, and will give you three shots at about 400fpe using 220grainers. The "long pin" valve is for very heavy boolits, and puts the power output at 600+fpe.

So you are basically getting three bigbore airguns in one.

https://gargoyleairgun.com/Home_Page.html
yondering
02-22-2010, 02:39 PM
That's pretty cool! I've heard of big bore air guns, but never messed with them. Sounds like your getting just slightly less than 45 ACP power; I'm impressed.

How about the noise? Are they very loud? I would assume they are louder than one of the cheap Crossman pellet guns, but how do they compare to something like a .22 rifle?
Butcher45
02-22-2010, 02:45 PM
That's pretty cool! I've heard of big bore air guns, but never messed with them. Sounds like your getting just slightly less than 45 ACP power; I'm impressed.

How about the noise? Are they very loud? I would assume they are louder than one of the cheap Crossman pellet guns, but how do they compare to something like a .22 rifle?

Roughly as loud as a .22, without the sonic "crack".

The environment you are shooting in can have an affect on the level of noise. When I was shooting out on the wide-open plains of Wyoming, I didn't feel the need to use earplugs like I usually do when shooting in the National Forrest/wooded areas of Western Oregon.

However, those super-sonic rubber pellets are hella' loud!
scrapcan
02-22-2010, 03:52 PM
Butcher45,

have you been around many of hte 30 or 35 caliber guns? This whole large caliber airgun topic has been on my mind for some time. Ihave been watcing the network54 forums for some time.
Butcher45
02-22-2010, 03:57 PM
Butcher45,

have you been around many of hte 30 or 35 caliber guns? This whole large caliber airgun topic has been on my mind for some time. Ihave been watcing the network54 forums for some time.


When I was hunting Jack Rabbits in Wyoming, my hunting partner was using a DAQ .308 awesome caliber. I am hoping to get a .308/.32 barrel so I can do easy caliber swaps with my 909. Guessing I'll get 1000+fps with 100grain .32 boolits which will make for better small game hunting due to the flatter trajectory.
MT Chambers
08-06-2015, 08:10 PM
I've shot alot of PCPs and I would not want to have to drag that big bottle out for a fill every 3 or 4 shots, my Daystate .303 is bad enough refilling every 13 shots.
LongRangeAir
08-06-2015, 08:27 PM
As far as noise goes, my .257 is much louder than a .22 rimfire. More like a .38 special. You Don't want to shoot it without either ear protection, or the LDC in place!

You will find that a bit of tin will give much better fillout, and more consistent weights.

KnifeMaker
W.R.Buchanan
08-07-2015, 02:31 PM
The Gargoyle page doesn't come up. Is it Russian?

how do you find them?

Randy
yondering
08-08-2015, 01:26 AM
The Gargoyle page doesn't come up.

Maybe because this conversation was over 5 years ago?
Tatume
08-08-2015, 06:47 AM
http://gargoyleairgun.com/
W.R.Buchanan
08-09-2015, 01:32 PM
Maybe because this conversation was over 5 years ago?

who looks at dates anyway?

The gargoyle link ends up at XP airguns, which is interesting reading.

Randy