Lyman mold issues common?

[jr545]

Well, I received a NIB Lyman mold with a pistol I recently traded into.
The gentleman said he purchased it a couple years back but had never used the mold and handles so I gave it a go.
I gave the mold a quick cleaning and tested for fit on the handles then I began to cast.
The freaking spues had to be pryed from the plate each and every time. I wasn't in the mood to fight it so I moved on to another mold I had waiting.
After things cooled off I gave the mold a good once over and discovered the problem. The sprue holes looked as if the machinist at Lyman had used a rabid beaver with dull teeth to chew the holes in the sprue plate. We're not talking just rough here, the tooling marks were very irregular and had gouges as if the tool used had a broked tip.
I used a little valve grinding compound to smooth things up and trued up the bottom where it meets the mold and got it to pitch the sprues when cut.
I have probably twenty Lyman molds, most purchased used and this is by far the worst I've seen.
Is this type of quality what comes out of Lyman anymore or did I just end up with one that slipped by?

[Shiloh]

I have a lot of LEE molds. More than one has had vents cut into the block for proper filling. Your sprue plate should have been replaced with one from another mold and sent back to LEE. That is what I would have done. You however, altered the original sprue by doing the repair yourself. That will "Void the Warranty" so to speak.

Lee molds can be tricky to get running right. THe advantage is that they are cheap, and the six-bangers produce a mountain of boolits. I have a Brand new LEE six-banger 158 .38/357 TLSWC that gave me fits yesterday to get running right. Finally started getting good boolits after cleaning again (Three Times!!) and adding a bit of tin. I'll enhance a couple of vent areas today.

SHilolh

[jr545]

Your sprue plate should have been replaced with one from another mold and sent back to LEE.

SHilolh

I don't think Lee would have appreciated that...:kidding:

[anachronism]

Ummm.. Lyman mould, not Lee. I've had RCBS moulds with dull sprue plates too. Some of these production made moulds really make me appreciate custom mould makers, where the makers name goes on every mould that goes out the door. Most of them are not that much more expensive. I can cut all 4 sprues on a 4 cavity LBT mould with a gloved hand, no stick needed. I've never been able to do that with a Lyman.

[44man]

Production molds are like guns that need a trigger job. A little work will pay off. Once you buy a mold it belongs to you and if it needs work, fix it. To worry about a warranty is silly if it takes a few minutes to fix it yourself. Are we not self sufficient?

[jr545]

Production molds are like guns that need a trigger job. A little work will pay off. Once you buy a mold it belongs to you and if it needs work, fix it. To worry about a warranty is silly if it takes a few minutes to fix it yourself. Are we not self sufficient?


I agree 44man......this was a little worse than needing a tune up.
I wish I had of taken pictures, It really was that bad.

[anachronism]

Lyman mould repair kits are pretty inexpensive, and include a new sprue plate.

[MtGun44]

Lyman should do better, but it is often cheaper and quicker to fix up some minor issue
than it is to fool with shipping, and the cost. Now if the cavities are well centered and
cast the proper size, you have a good mold with a one-time temporary PITA issue.

Wish it weren't so, but it is. Those beavers work cheap! ;-)

Bill

[stubshaft]

It's commensurate with what Lyman produces nowdays. I won't buy anything in an orange box anymore unless it was produced at least 10 years ago.

[machinisttx]

Production molds are like guns that need a trigger job. A little work will pay off. Once you buy a mold it belongs to you and if it needs work, fix it. To worry about a warranty is silly if it takes a few minutes to fix it yourself. Are we not self sufficient?

If I'm buying a brand new product, it better be right, or the manufacturer had better make it right. I shouldn't have to "fix" a brand new item to have it function/operate correctly. The undersize, out of round, 429421 I just bought was about three hours of my pay. No employer I've had would have let me get away with sending junk out the door, if I were so inclined. Mistakes happen, but lyman seems to have given up producing a quality product in favor of trying to ride the name.

I don't get it.... There are complaints about manufacturing leaving the USA, then complaints about crappy products, then complaints about how nobody knows how to do quality work anymore....and then someone says to just suck it up when you get a bad product. Looks to me like the average consumer doesn't want quality.

[jdgabbard]

If I'm buying a brand new product, it better be right, or the manufacturer had better make it right. I shouldn't have to "fix" a brand new item to have it function/operate correctly. The undersize, out of round, 429421 I just bought was about three hours of my pay. No employer I've had would have let me get away with sending junk out the door, if I were so inclined. Mistakes happen, but lyman seems to have given up producing a quality product in favor of trying to ride the name.

I don't get it.... There are complaints about manufacturing leaving the USA, then complaints about crappy products, then complaints about how nobody knows how to do quality work anymore....and then someone says to just suck it up when you get a bad product. Looks to me like the average consumer doesn't want quality.

I look at it kinda the same way, but a little differently. While I agree with you, I see it more like a car. Yeah it should drive good. But if I wanted a race car then I should have bought a race car. Not a Grand Am... That said, the grand am better work like its supposed to. I understand molds not being as good as a custom mold. But at the same time I know I'm buying something that is just made to "function."

[RobS]

If I'm buying a brand new product, it better be right, or the manufacturer had better make it right.


Looks to me like the average consumer doesn't want quality.

I do agree with a new product being "right" if you will and that a manufacturer should make the situation as painless as possible for the customer when there are issues but today many people do not take the satisfaction of doing a great job. Yes there are those who feel that they should do their best and I'm on board with this, but our society is just not what it was 30 to 40 years ago........hell 10 years ago. So if you are a person who doesn't have the $$$ or one who doesn't want to wait on a group buy mold then you are left with the inprecise possibilities of i.e. Lyman in this example.

I've had no problems with any of my custom molds from LBT or from MountainMolds which is the advantage of this route. I've also not had any problems with RCBS other than the mold not being as nicely finished as the custom molds. Lyman and Lee well not the case. I too will have a hard time looking at a Lyman mold as the last 3 have all been undersized and for the price I feel they should be of good quality. Lee...........they are cheaper and even though they should be done right out the door many times they are not and so for 1/3 the cost of the other mold possibilities I simply do the extra work to make them well finished on my own.

I buy the Lee mold at less the cost with the understanding that I will be working on them when they arrive at my door. Sometimes though a person gets a Lee mold that needs no work at a heavily reduced price in comparison to other mold options which will bring a smile to a person's face.

IMO.............It is what it is.......................nothing more, nothing less.

Rob

[Zbench]

JR, I have a Lyman mould of recent manufacture that has the same problem as yours. Here is my tale.

I bought a .380 mould from Lyman (it was actually my first mould, too green to know any better).

After cleaning it up and casting 100 boolits, I realized that they were .002" out of round. Additionally, the sprue plate was reamed with a dull reamer causing all sorts of ridges that required you to pry out the excess with some needle nose pliers.

I called Lyman and they told me to send it back. I did, and enclosed a letter stating what the problems were. After about a month I got it back. They rebored the blocks and the mould now at least threw a concentric boolit.

However, the sprue plate was the same crappy one that they originally sent with it. I called to complain and was told that after looking at it, the technician decided it was "within factory specs". I told the woman on the phone that their specs sucked, and it would be the last mould I ever purchased from them.

I ordered a reamer from MSC and cleaned it up on my mill and it works great now. Even better is that the sprue plate comes to more of a knife edge which shears the sprue more easily.

I agree with what is written above. In my mind, if you have to pry the excess out with needle nose pliers, that is a completely different situation from having an occasional stick from time to time. Lyman has lost it, they won't get any of my business.

Bottom line, I spent probably double on what the mould cost on shipping and buying the reamer. I could have just spent the same amount and had a mould that worked great right out of the box.

Pete

[machinisttx]

I look at it kinda the same way, but a little differently. While I agree with you, I see it more like a car. Yeah it should drive good. But if I wanted a race car then I should have bought a race car. Not a Grand Am... That said, the grand am better work like its supposed to. I understand molds not being as good as a custom mold. But at the same time I know I'm buying something that is just made to "function."

I'm not sure what you're driving at. There isn't any reason for an off the shelf mold to be significantly out of round, tapered, or undersized...other than a bad one getting out occasionally(understandable and fixable). I don't have a problem giving them a little more leeway than I would a more expensive custom mold, but I'm not going to accept a bad one that needs work to make right. I'm paying for it to be right, not paying to work on it.

[leadman]

Most of the newer Lyman sprue plates I have came with the taper in the hole not bored all the way to the other side. There was still part of the initial drill hole left on the bottom so the cut sprue would hang in there.
I have a counterbore tool that matches the taper so I use that to finish the work Lyman should have done.

[Cheshire Dave]

I've had the same experence as you Leadman. Hit them with a counter sink and sharpened them. Don't know why Lyman can't just go .03 deeper. Seems they don't understand how the sprue plate is supposed to work. I've had RCBS moulds that needed to be lapped before the bullets would drop out too, but they seem better overall.

[theperfessor]

Sounds like problems that should have been caught by the machine operator. Inadequate countersink depth means something needs to be adjusted. A rough surface is caused by tool wear or chipping. Both should be picked up by any reasonable QC check. It doesn't take much work to look at a tool to see if it's chipped or if a countersink comes to an adequate edge.

Trust me, people can be trained to do this.

[HORNET]

That 'land' at the bottom of the countersink probably is to Lyman specs. If you take a countersink all the way down to give a sharp edge, you end up with a burr rolled out that would chew up the top of the mold unless you had an operator removing them (ie: another operation & more cost). I recall reading a mold tuning article by Guy Loverin where he mentioned the need to sharpen the sprue holes to get a clean cut so its been a known issue for a long time. I clean them up with a countersink and polish them or just make a new plate if I want to reduce the size of the sprue hole.

[Tazman1602]

Man that one sounds like it's a bit out of line with QC but on ALL my molds whether new or bought used I've taken to honing them flat with a stone I use to smooth trigger sears on 45acps along with the top of the blocks.

REALLY makes a difference on the way the sprues cut and on the amount of pressure it takes to cut them too.

Except to LEE molds I've started to buy most of my custom stuff from a vendor here on the forum.

Nothing personal to Lyman but your customer service in the last two years has gone in the TOILET.................."just the facts Ma'am"..................and 'dem is 'de facts..........

Just to back all the guys up that say the old molds are MUCH better than the new ones? I've bought two 20+ year old Lyman molds in the last six months and they are fatter, rounder, and built better than anything I've bought in the last few years in the mold dept from Lyman with almost NO issues except for minor tuning needed.

Art

[44man]

If I'm buying a brand new product, it better be right, or the manufacturer had better make it right. I shouldn't have to "fix" a brand new item to have it function/operate correctly. The undersize, out of round, 429421 I just bought was about three hours of my pay. No employer I've had would have let me get away with sending junk out the door, if I were so inclined. Mistakes happen, but lyman seems to have given up producing a quality product in favor of trying to ride the name.

I don't get it.... There are complaints about manufacturing leaving the USA, then complaints about crappy products, then complaints about how nobody knows how to do quality work anymore....and then someone says to just suck it up when you get a bad product. Looks to me like the average consumer doesn't want quality.
Gross problems like under size or out of round is different and I hate that stuff too. They should never leave the factory.
Only small problems that a fella can fix fast and easy will not need postage and waiting time to get it back.
With the prices Lyman and RCBS charges, all should be perfect but we all know it will never happen.
The scary thing is that you either have to spend more money for postage or to buy a fix for a sprue plate. You might have a perfect mold otherwise, send it back and they might just send you a new mold that is out of round.
We all want perfect products but the board and share holders don't care what we want and the larger the company, the worse it gets.
How management treats employees can destroy confidence in what you buy too.