Big Bore Silhouette Rifle

[crabo]

What are most of the people shooting for big bore lever silhouette? And what boolit?

How would a 30/30 and a 311-160 GC Ranch Dog style work?

Thanks,

[6pt-sika]

I used a number of different Marlin 30-30's over a 4 year time span and I shot the RD 311-165GC in them all with good results !

All were loaded with XMP5744 in charges of 20-22 grains and lit with CCI200's !

[NickSS]

I use the Lyman 311041 bullet and 18 gr of 4198. this load is quite accurate at 200 yards which is as far as my club shoots for silhouettes due to range limitations.

[Doc Highwall]

6pt-sika, what is your alloy with that load. I have that mould and just picked up a beater Marlin 30-30.

[doubs43]

Nick, our range is similar in limitations with a maximum of 200 meters. I am curious to know if your silhouette match uses a gong or swinger at 200 yards or do you have actual silhouette targets of steel that you knock down?

I ask because our full-size ram silhouettes at 200 meters will not go down when hit by a 30-30 bullet. Even a 250 grain bullet from a 38-55 is a sometime thing with the ram only falling if hit just right. They require at least a 274 grain bullet at a good velocity for reliable toppling over.

[6pt-sika]

6pt-sika, what is your alloy with that load. I have that mould and just picked up a beater Marlin 30-30.

I used plain old wheelweights with nothing added !

In my rifles they worked fine on silhouettes and brown four legged creatures :drinks:

I did however run all my bullets thru a .312" sizing die when lubing and attaching the checks . While they did fine at .309 and .310 they seemed to do a bit better when sized at .312 !

Matter of fact for the last 4 or 5 years I size all my 30 cal bullets at .312 !

[6pt-sika]

D43 , FWIW our silhouette range is the normal 200 meters also !

We have our rams and turkeys hinged at the base so maybe ours are a slight bit easier to knock over then yours !

However I've talked with quite a few fellows in Virginia and Pennsylvania who use a 1894 Marlin in 357 MAG out to 200 meters with no ill effects .

The targets we have meet IHMSA specs so perhaps you guys have targets that are heavier then required ?

[doubs43]

D43 , FWIW our silhouette range is the normal 200 meters also !

We have our rams and turkeys hinged at the base so maybe ours are a slight bit easier to knock over then yours !

However I've talked with quite a few fellows in Virginia and Pennsylvania who use a 1894 Marlin in 357 MAG out to 200 meters with no ill effects .

The targets we have meet IHMSA specs so perhaps you guys have targets that are heavier then required ?

It's possible that our full size rams are heavier than they should be. Our course of fire is not standard in that we shoot chickens and 8" squares at 100 meters, full size and 1/5th size turkeys at 150 meters and full size and 1/5th size rams at 200 meters. We shoot from crossed sticks at all ranges but even so we may have only one or two 40 scores all year. The 1/5th size turkeys and rams are the most frequently missed.

I wish there was somewhere near enough to shoot a sanctioned match but we're the only club in middle Georgia that has silhouette matches at all.

[6pt-sika]

I wish there was somewhere near enough to shoot a sanctioned match but we're the only club in middle Georgia that has silhouette matches at all.

I put on NRA Lever Silhouette matches for 4 years !

The first year they weren't sanctioned and a I got a very nice turn out !

The following year our club told me I "had" to have registered matches and that prettyt much killed participation here !

[doubs43]

I put on NRA Lever Silhouette matches for 4 years !

The first year they weren't sanctioned and a I got a very nice turn out !

The following year our club told me I "had" to have registered matches and that prettyt much killed participation here !

I understand completely and the decision to force you to have registered matches was not wise. Our club officials - (I'm VP and have been for many years but will likely give it up this year) - have long understood that the more rules there are, the fewer shooters there will be. Safety, of course, is never compromised. Our .22 silhouette matches will average 25 or more shooters and our Buffalo silhouette matches probably average 15 - 17 shooters. We had 8 shooters at last Saturday's lever action and pistol match but usually have 10 or more.

We try to keep our targets at a size that won't discourage too many shooters and yet be a challenge to most.

We are in the planning stages of making our range NRA sanctioned for .22 silhouette matches so that it can be used for that purpose by organizations who want to hold a sanctioned match. Our location in the middle of the state makes us a good venue. Our own club matches will continue to be casual.

[NickSS]

WE shoot at silhouettes that are made from 1/2 inch steel plate and are scaled to be visually the size of the full range silhouettes used for BPCR silhouette. My 30-30 load has no problem knocking any of them over at 200 yards. All our shooting is at 200 so the chickens are full size per BPCR rules and they are difficult to hit off hand. A good score is 3 or 4 chickens but our match winners usually score around 33 or 34 in our shoots. One of my buddies won last months shoot with a 35. He hit five chickens and all the rest. I had a 28with only one chicken hit. I am not steady off hand any more due to a stroke I had about five years ago.

[6pt-sika]

I understand completely and the decision to force you to have registered matches was not wise. Our club officials - (I'm VP and have been for many years but will likely give it up this year) - have long understood that the more rules there are, the fewer shooters there will be. Safety, of course, is never compromised. Our .22 silhouette matches will average 25 or more shooters and our Buffalo silhouette matches probably average 15 - 17 shooters. We had 8 shooters at last Saturday's lever action and pistol match but usually have 10 or more.

We try to keep our targets at a size that won't discourage too many shooters and yet be a challenge to most.

We are in the planning stages of making our range NRA sanctioned for .22 silhouette matches so that it can be used for that purpose by organizations who want to hold a sanctioned match. Our location in the middle of the state makes us a good venue. Our own club matches will continue to be casual.

Best shoot I ever had for lever silhouette was 14 people and that was in the first year !

And that was all for the big bore targets !

The second year I was set up for Big Bore , Picstol Cartridge Lever and 22 Lever !
At a cost of about $2000 to our club . I was a little displeased that I had our club spend the money for the 22 targets and an additional berm at 40 meters . However the club officers weren't at all put off .

Anyway after 4 years and lack of participation this year I decided not to have the matches anylonger . It got a little old getting there at 8AM every month setting all the targets and then "maybe" two additional shooters show up !

[w30wcf]

I ask because our full-size ram silhouettes at 200 meters will not go down when hit by a 30-30 bullet. Even a 250 grain bullet from a 38-55 is a sometime thing with the ram only falling if hit just right. They require at least a 274 grain bullet at a good velocity for reliable toppling over.

doubs43,
It sounds as if your rams are not in accordance to the NRA specifications. Like others have said, I have no trouble at all downing 200M rams with cast in my .30-30.

In fact, at the Ridgway, PA High Power Silhouette range where the Rams stand @ 500 meters, my trusty .30-30 loaded with 205 gr. bullets over a load of H414 will knock them down with no trouble.....I just have to hit them first!
http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o25/w30wcf/RidgwayJune2007.jpg

w30wcf

[doubs43]

WOW! w30wcf, that is a beautiful range. What are the four distances in the picture?

Did you have your 30-30 barrel made specifically with a twist suitable for the 205 grain bullets? We have had several people try using lever action rifles in our Buffalo shoots but they've had accuracy problems past 150 meters. That doesn't appear to be the case with your rifle and, I assume, others who shoot with you.

6pt-sika, it sounds like you've put a lot of effort into your matches and I understand your frustration. I run a .22 bench rest match and participation isn't all I'd like it to be although it stays between 4 & 10...... the low turnouts just enough not to cancel the matches. I did call them off for Jan - Mar because of cold wet weather. I'm hoping the break will get people to anticipate the new season.

The picture below shows our 1/5th scale (approximately) ram with the 6 x 10" piece of cardboard that I use for practice at 200 meters. The ruler will give you an idea of actual size of the ram. The bullet is the RCBS 312 BC bullet that I use in my Winchester High Wall 38-55.

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i99/doubs43/200MeterRam1.jpg

[six_gun]

I shoot at the Blacks Creek Range south of Boise. I have used a Win pre 64 30-30, a Puma 92 in 357 and a Win 94 in 38-55, and all with great success. Our rams are a mixture of what could be scrounged from other ranges but they all go down if they are set up as per the guidelines that the NRA came out with. They should be set on the stand and moved back until they tip back then only moved forward on the stand until they will stay. The NRA came out wity this rule 1 or 2 years ago because so many people hard set the rams and you can't knock them off the stand with a cannon, let alone a 30-30.

My 30-30 load is a RCBS 180gr RNFP with a GC, which has an actual weight of 190 gr. Under that bullet I use 34 gr of IMR4831 for a MV of about 1775fps

My 357 load is a RCBS 180gr silhouette with a GC and 15 gr of Lil'gun. This bullet weighs 190gr also and goes about 1800fps

My 38-55 load is a LC 240gr over 10.6gr of Unique. This bullet goes 1250fps and it takes awhile, but when it gets there, it knocks them down.

I have tried a puma in 44 mag but I have never got it to be accurate enough byond the pig distance of 100 yards. I blame the 1in 38 twist and for that reason, I have never got a Marlin in 44 mag because I don't want to waste the time trying to get it to shoot as good as my other guns do.

Sixgun

[doubs43]

Sixgun, I think you likely have the answer. Our full size targets are set solidly and take a good wack to knock down.

My 38-55 velocity is 1319 FPS with the 320 grain bullet you see in my picture.

[6pt-sika]

WOW! w30wcf, that is a beautiful range. What are the four distances in the picture?




I've shot the Ridgeway Range before when w30wcf was having his October Lever Jubilee shoot !

And let me tell you those rams at 500 meters look way way out there !

This course is set up for high power bolt action rifles so the ranges of fire are ,

chickens 200 meters
pigs 300 meters
turkeys 385 meters
rams 500 meters!

While I can't say I hit all the rams at 500 meters I did get more then one with a peep sighted Marlin 336SC in 35 REM . But I think that was more from the excellent spotting w30wcf was giving me rather then my ability to shoot !

[6pt-sika]

Look at the pic of the Ridgeway Range in the upper left hand corner and see the white object !

Thats a full size buffalo at 835 yards ifmy memory is correct !

[Cimarron Red]

w30wcf --

Thanks, John, for posting the pic of my favorite range -- the Ridgway Rifle Club. I haven't seen it since I moved to Colorado. And I really miss the place.

John O'Donnell, the BPCR silhouette match director recently sent out a notice that the club is in the process of installing berms for NRA lever gun silhouette matches (all three games) on the range at the bottom of the hill. Have you heard anything?

[doubs43]

I've shot the Ridgeway Range before when w30wcf was having his October Lever Jubilee shoot !

While I can't say I hit all the rams at 500 meters I did get more then one with a peep sighted Marlin 336SC in 35 REM . But I think that was more from the excellent spotting w30wcf was giving me rather then my ability to shoot !

Hitting a ram at 500 meters with a lever action rifle is good shooting regardless. A good spotter is worth their weight in gold at such ranges but the shooter still has to make the information work for him or her.

All I can say is, I'd dearly love to shoot on a range like that.

[crabo]

Any recommendations on a particular model? I have a 24" CB in 357 and was wondering if Marlin makes a 24" in 30/30?

[6pt-sika]

Any recommendations on a particular model? I have a 24" CB in 357 and was wondering if Marlin makes a 24" in 30/30?

Marlin "made" a 336CB with a 24" full octagon barrel about 7-10 years ago and I had one of these set up for lever silhouette with Williams peep and Lyman front sight however since they quit making them this model seems to bring a premium on the used market !

If I were you I'd try the 357 some and if I were disatisfied with that I would do the easy thing and either get a 336XLR in 30-30 or a 1894Cb with the 20" barrel in 44 MAG . They no longer make any of the 1894CB's with the 24" barrel either :groner:

[6pt-sika]

Hitting a ram at 500 meters with a lever action rifle is good shooting regardless. A good spotter is worth their weight in gold at such ranges but the shooter still has to make the information work for him or her.

All I can say is, I'd dearly love to shoot on a range like that.

I failed to mention also at the October Lever Action Jubilee we were shooting from the sitting position mostly as it was just for fun !

Most of us used a different rifle at each yardage as well !

[Cimarron Red]

I just visited the Ridgway Rifle Club's web site. They have some information posted about lever gun matches, and here's the link:

http://www.ridgwayrifleclub.com/

[EDK]

Marlin "made" a 336CB with a 24" full octagon barrel about 7-10 years ago and I had one of these set up for lever silhouette with Williams peep and Lyman front sight however since they quit making them this model seems to bring a premium on the used market !

If I were you I'd try the 357 some and if I were disatisfied with that I would do the easy thing and either get a 336XLR in 30-30 or a 1894Cb with the 20" barrel in 44 MAG . They no longer make any of the 1894CB's with the 24" barrel either :groner:

SUPPOSEDLY they still have 24 inch 30/30 (and 38/55) barrels for 336 Cowboys at MARLIN. Some posters over at marlinowners detailed the process. I had bought a 30/30 Cowboy and wanted a second, so got a straight grip beater to be converted....then found another Cowboy at a fair price. The pistol caliber guns with 24 inch barrels are more available....but they aren't giving them away either! MARLIN may have 24 inch barrels for them also?

:cbpour::redneck:

[Whit Spurzon]

I sent a Texan in last year to get the Cowboy Conversion in 30-30.

http://www.myhostedpics.com/images/Pathfinder/arlin001.jpg

I am mighty pleased with what they sent back to me.

Sent in another Texan to have the conversion done in 38-55 and I'm excitedly waiting for its return.

In a conversation I had with the nice lady on the phone at Marlin the week before last she said they were only doing the 38-55 conversion at this time.

[Doc Highwall]

I have a friend that works at Marlin and he says it is a little different now that Remington owns them for having gun's changed over like yours.