Hensley & Gibbs #107 .44 Caliber Full Wadcutter

[Texasflyboy]

A recently acquired two cavity #107 Hensley & Gibbs Plain base mould. I've had this one on my list for some time and finally managed to get it this week. These are the first photos of it. I plan to cast up some first projectiles this week and develop a mild .44MAG load for target shooting.

This mould does not appear in the ledger, I had to create the entry myself based on numerous sightings on eBay over the years. No idea why it doesn't appear on Wayne's ledger list that he sent me, but I surmise that it was a popular mould at one time, being an almost perfect copy of the ever popular #50 full wadcutter but in .44 caliber.

The photo:

http://hgmould.gunloads.com/molds/107&50.jpg

Link to much larger High Res Photo of #107:

107 High Res Photo (http://hgmould.gunloads.com/molds/107_11.jpg)

[theperfessor]

Very nice! Any idea of the weight of the 107?

[Le Loup Solitaire]

This mold came in three weights. There was a 107 A,B, & C. The A weighed 245 grains, the B weighed 185 grains and the C weighed 135 grains. I was able to find a B in almost mint shape, a 4 cavity version....as shown in the pic, Seated flush with the top of the case mouth, no crimp and using 5.5 grains of Unique it will shoot virtually one hole off the bench at 25 yards all day long. At 50 yards its still one hole, but the hole is bigger, like 9 ring size. I imagine that the C would do as well and could also be deep seated, but I'm not as sure about the A at 245 grains...that seems a bit heavy for a wadcutter and might require some special consideration in terms of seating depth, powder charge and pressure. This is a great design and mold. LLS

[hammerhead357]

Flyboy is it a Murphy Or. mould or before? The bolts for the sprue plate stop are not tapered which Wayne went to at a later date. This is an interesting mould. I will have to check my old info to see if I have anything on it....Wes

[Hardcast416taylor]

I refer to my LEE .44 wadcutter mold as a "flying trashcan"! Cuts a nice round hole on paper with decent accuracy at 25 yds. ( my eyesight limit).Robert

[Texasflyboy]

This mold came in three weights. There was a 107 A,B, & C. The A weighed 245 grains, the B weighed 185 grains and the C weighed 135 grains.

You learn something new every day. Even I didn't know that about the A,B,&C weights. But now I do and will update the ledger accordingly.

Thanks for solving a mystery for me....

Tom

[Texasflyboy]

Flyboy is it a Murphy Or. mould or before? The bolts for the sprue plate stop are not tapered which Wayne went to at a later date. This is an interesting mould. I will have to check my old info to see if I have anything on it....Wes

Don't recall. I will check tonight and post the pics of the mfg stamp. Will also weigh the bullets that came with it.

[Wally]

I refer to my LEE .44 wadcutter mold as a "flying trashcan"! Cuts a nice round hole on paper with decent accuracy at 25 yds. ( my eyesight limit).Robert

Yes, I have one as well and I use it carefully as one can no longer buy one. Great plinking bullet in the .44 Spl/Magnums using Bullseye powder. My Ruger SBK is very accurate with this bullet in a .44 Spl case with 5~5.5 grains of Bullseye.

[sagamore-one]

I have a 107B in 6 cavity and a friend has a "matched" pair in 6 cavity with the thick sprue plates (1/2 again as thick as my standard sprue plate). He purchased his new as a "matched " pair. I got mine used from a fellow board member.
As cast from my mould, 190gr in #2 alloy and size .430. His are 185 and size .429.
8 to 8.5 gr of SR4756 is my favorite load. All my Smiths love them and it shoots to point of aim in the Bulldog.
107 is listed in my H&G brochure dated 1-11-94 with a,b and c weights explained.

[Texasflyboy]

107 is listed in my H&G brochure dated 1-11-94 with a,b and c weights explained.

I need new(er) glasses.

[smilie=s:

Thanks!

[ANeat]

Im sure Ballisti-Cast can cut you one. There #707, H&G number + 600

http://www.ballisti-cast.com/images/Page%205%20bullets%20edited.jpg

[Texasflyboy]

Just got finished casting with the new mould. No complaints about performance. Seems I have the 107A at ~240 grains. My pot is filled with wheelweights at the moment, so 240 grains seems about right for a # 107A according to the catalog.

http://hgmould.gunloads.com/molds/107_12.jpg



http://hgmould.gunloads.com/molds/107_13.jpg



http://hgmould.gunloads.com/molds/107_14.jpg

[Slow Elk 45/70]

Vari nice boolit, I may really need one of those......

[hammerhead357]

Well I guess I waited to long. Didn't have to go to the shop to find out all of this.... Glad someone had all of this info at their finger tips.....Wes
Darned nice looking boolits though... Should be good out to 50 or 75 yards...Wes

[Windy City Kid]

I have a H&G 107C in a 4 cavity. It cast a 133gr. boolit, .433" diameter. The mold drop boolits that are almost perfectly round. I just tumble lube with LLA and shoot as cast. It's very accurate in my S&W model 24 at 25 yards.

[dubber123]

Bill, scroll back to post #11. It shows this boolit in all 3 weights in the Ballisti-Cast catalog. It's in the RH column.

[Texasflyboy]

Tried some loads over the weekend but will have to redo the test. I can say for sure that 10.0 grains of Unique with a light crimp was too hot for my Smith & Wesson Model 29-5 Hunter Model. This is my go to revolver for testing loads.

Primers were flat, a few had high pressure ridges or cupping from the firing pin bushing. No pierced primers though. Extraction was very difficult. I only fired 6 rounds, group was ragged at about 1.75 inches at 10 yards. Two flyers.

The book (Lyman 44th or 45th) says for projectiles ~240 to ~250 grains: Unique max is ~11.0 grains. Don't seem so.

Pulled all the rounds I loaded at 10.0 grains and will try this again at 7.0, 8.0, & 9.0 and see what happens.

[Texasflyboy]

Holy Cow. Something has changed:

Unique Loads for .44 MAG (http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/recipedetail.aspx?gtypeid=1&weight=240&shellid=33&bulletid=52)

Current manual off of Alliant website shows 7.0 grains as max. Holy schmooley. My Lyman 44th edition has 11.0 of Unique as max for 250 grains.

Have they changed the Unique recipe that much?

I think I need to change my starting loads to 5.0, 6.0 and 7.0 grains of Unique.

[Texasflyboy]

Just got back from the range. 9.0 and 10.0 are way too hot for this design.

The following pictures are 5.0, 6.0, 7.0, and 8.0 grains of Unique.


It seems that 6.0 grains of Unique is the go to load for this design, Recoil was mild, about what you would expect from a target wadcutter. I am going to load a 100 or so with 6.0 grains of Unique and see if I can confirm the load. All of the squares are 1".

http://hgmould.gunloads.com/a/5UNIQUE.jpg


http://hgmould.gunloads.com/a/6UNIQUE.jpg


http://hgmould.gunloads.com/a/7UNIQUE.jpg


http://hgmould.gunloads.com/a/8UNIQUE.jpg

[Texasflyboy]

Here is the range report from yesterday.


5.5 Grains of Unique with Hensley & Gibbs #107A (http://hgmould.gunloads.com/a/107_8.jpg)


Am testing loads between 5.0 and 6.0 grains of Unique. Doesn't seem to be any point in loads past 6.0 grains with this projectile.

[Dale53]

Texasflyboy;
You cannot safely use semi-wadcutter data for full wad cutter bullets. The deep seating of full wadcutters will raise pressures exponentially!

On the other hand, I don't understand Alliant's data for a 240 gr SWC with Unique AT ALL. That data is more at the level of SAAMI .44 Special level than .44 Magnum levels. Makes no sense at all.

At any rate, I have chronographed the Group Buy 200 gr dbl ended Wadcutter in my .44 Special:

5.0 grs of Red Dot gave an average of 878 fps.

For target work I reduced to 4.0 grs. As you can see (even tho' the bullet is considerably lighter than yours, that it doesn't take much powder with a full wadcutter). Your original charge of Unique was WAY overboard. I am glad you didn't hurt anything.

FWIW
Dale53

[Dframe]

I have a #50 in a 4 cavity. But I'd love to find the 44 calibre mould

[Texasflyboy]

Last posting on range testing.

Seems to be no advantage to moving outside of 5.5 to 6.0 grains of Unique.

I may test later with other powders, but Unique was at hand for this test.

Range results:

http://i40.tinypic.com/vwvkzt.jpg



http://i44.tinypic.com/25ptwdl.jpg

[sagamore-one]

I use 8 gr of 4756 under my 107B's.

[Texasflyboy]

I use 8 gr of 4756 under my 107B's.

Thanks. Good to know for the thread. This thread got me thinking about adding loads for Hensley & Gibbs designs to the website.

I have two 3" binders full of targets and load data from 15 years of experimentation, 90% of which is with Hensley & Gibbs designs.

Need to share that info....

[BarryinIN]

I know that I for one would like to see that info!

I missed this thread earlier, but am glad I found it. I didn't know there was an H&G .44 wadcutter and will have to add that to my lengthy want list.

I got a Lee 44-209-WC last year, but had not used it until I got one of the Ruger .44 Specials recently. That's a FUN bullet in that caliber, let me tell ya. It feels like I'm loading a lead 5-gallon bucket into the chambers.
I learned about that deep seating pressure thing too. I thought it would make a difference and was right. I started light, but that "light" load that should have done in the mid 600s with a normal bullet made 809 fps with the deep wadcutter.

[N1c0l4s]

I have a 107B in 6 cavity and a friend has a "matched" pair in 6 cavity with the thick sprue plates (1/2 again as thick as my standard sprue plate). He purchased his new as a "matched " pair. I got mine used from a fellow board member.
As cast from my mould, 190gr in #2 alloy and size .430. His are 185 and size .429.
8 to 8.5 gr of SR4756 is my favorite load. All my Smiths love them and it shoots to point of aim in the Bulldog.
107 is listed in my H&G brochure dated 1-11-94 with a,b and c weights explained.

hi. do you still own and use this mold?

[Burnt Fingers]

10 year old thread. Please don't bring necro threads to life. It confuses us old guys.

[Dragonheart]

Here is the information I have ion the H&G #107:

Edition – February 2010, Version 2.02 [minor corrections & edits]

Hensley & Gibbs Numerical List of Bullet Designs by Wayne Gibbs, Summer 2005
Additions and Corrections in Italics by Tom Dugas – Summer 2005 to February 20107
Notes by Tom Dugas (TD) appear in italics

Hensley & Gibbs Bullet moulds were available in single cavity, two cavity, three cavity (recently discovered), four cavity, six cavity, eight cavity, and ten cavity depending on caliber. An early interesting variation (mid to late 1930’s) were two cavity moulds that were flipped over and cut for two more cavities on the opposite end. This interesting 4 cavity style is featured in a separate article on the main page of the website.

Bullet Design Number:

107 – 44 Caliber (.429) “A”, “B”, & “C” lengths were available. 107A = 245 grains, 107B = 185 grains, 107C 135 grains. Moulds marked “107” appear to be the 245 grain (“A”) version. Full wadcutter style mould observed numerous times on eBay. Shape appears to be identical to #50 but in 44 caliber instead of .38 caliber. Moulds observed were plain base, three grease grooves and small button tip like

[ddixie884]

I love these old threads. They have unknown info.......

[alamogunr]

Finding this old thread woke up a memory of a collection of references I collected back around 2000 thru 2003. I must not have needed them after several custom mold makers came available. The collected info includes:

1. Hensley & Gibbs brochure dated 12-94. This brochure includes the #107a,b,c. Also a 1985 brochure.

2. Lyman mold info. Gives Bullet #, Weight w/#2 alloy, Top Punch and Seating Screw(?). This info is in two columns but
my copy cuts off the top punch & seating screw info for the right column.

3. More Lyman mold info. This gives bullet designs by cherry number. For example: #429421 is a 429 bullet and the design is cherry #475.
The person who listed this online in the old CB_L list was emphatic that he did this just for the list. This came from someone identified as "J". In his words, "things would ge real ugly, real fast. While he may be long gone(?) I will honor his wishes.

4. Another list of Lyman bullets with top punch, seating screw & weight(multiple in some cases). This list has pictorial representation of the bullet.

5. NEI catalog dated January 2001. Includes pictorial representation also.

6. A catalog of Eagan MX nose pour molds. Includes hand drawings of many molds. No way to know if all his designs are represented.

7. A couple of brochures from Cast Bullet Engineering(CBE) in Australia dated 1994 thru 1999. Apparently they just added pages to their brochure and updated prices when orders were received.

8. Pioneer Products of Brookville, Ohio. There is no date on the Pioneer brochure but it must have been in the 2001-2002 time frame. I don't know anything about them and they must not be in business now.

Please forgive the long post but I was somewhat excited to find this information. I know I could have used some of this info over the years when a mold showed up online or in an article or even here such as the H&G mold that is the subject of this thread.

[Dragonheart]

I feel fortunate to own several H&G molds including several 45 acp #130's #68's and a #7, #S55 & #115 in 9mm.

[sagamore-one]

Yes I still have my 107B but have not used it lately. Recently picked up a custom matched pair of 503 in 8 cavity.

[Oyeboten]

Would someone kindly post some images of the famed "Hensley & Gibbs 107" Mold, or the Boolits one would cast with one, so those of us who do not have one, can see what it the Boolit would look like?

[Dragonheart]

I don't have a H&G #107, but from the description if you envision a typical 38 caliber wadcutter just in a larger diameter (44 caliber) then you got it, but some real photos would be nice.

Actual photos of so many of these old and new cast bullets I would think would make an excellent sticky.