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View Full Version : The .38 S&W is ready to fight again!



LouisianaMan
02-15-2010, 12:14 AM
A while back I posted some penetration tests on .38 SPL 200g and .32 S&W Long 115g bullets vs. water-filled milk jugs on a couple of forums. Since I recently re-equipped my wife & daughters with sets of 2" and 4" barreled revolvers in caliber .38 S&W (NOT .38 SPL), I thought I would share some initial results against milk jugs. I wanted to get them something more than a .32, but less than a .38 SPL, since one daughter finds that difficult to deal with. By standardizing their guns & even holsters, all ammo, speedloaders, snaps, etc. are now the same--no more fumbling over the differences between guns, actions, and ammo. I also cast & reload, so ammo supply isn't an issue.

TARGET: 5 water-filled jugs, backed by 2x12.
RANGE: approx 10 feet
GUNS: S&W Mod. 32-1 (2") and S&W 33-1 (4")
LOAD:
a. BULLET: Lee LSWC-TL, .358--158g nominal size. I "beagled" the mold to produce a fatter bullet when casting, as my revolvers' bores slug at .359. Outcome of casting was .359-.361, 161g with 50-50 WW-Pb + 4 oz. tin per 20 lbs. alloy. Estimated BHN = 7-9. COL: 1.155"
b. Powder: Win 231. Charge: 3.0g. Chrono'ed velocity for 5-shot string: 708.2 fps avg, with SD slightly over 12 (i.e. very consistent). NOTE: this powder charge is derived from Lyman 49th for 160g bullet, but my charge IS IN EXCESS OF RECOMMENDED LOAD. USE A RELOADING MANUAL TO WORK UP YOUR OWN LOAD. In previous tests, I have noted that my lot of Win231 appears to be slower than average, which lot variation has been noted by Ed Harris as characteristic of this powder. Therefore, I start with recommended data and then work it up over the chronograph to vels similar to published velocities. Ed considers 700fps max for a 200g bullet in this gun, so I'm very comfortable with the same velocity from a bullet about 20% lighter.

OUTCOME: both the snubbie 2" and its longer-barreled 4" twin put their bullet thru all five milk jugs in an absolutely straight line, then buried themselves into the 2x12 behind the jugs. Interestingly, the bullet from the snubbie is buried up to its base, whereas the bullet from the 4" gun is embedded "only" halfway into the board. (See photos) Perhaps a measurement of barrel-cylinder gaps on the two guns will explain the difference, or perhaps it's a result of the slight out-of-roundness in each bullet caused by the "beagling" process in casting--perhaps one obturated more fully than the other.

NOTE on photos: the groups fired were from a 2.9g load at 40' from sandbags. The group size is largely a result of my marksmanship, which is adequate for defense but no record-setter :-) Note that the group sizes are completely adequate for close-range defense, which is our chosen purpose for these guns. The additional hole visible in the board was caused by my earlier .38SPL 200g LSWC-K test, fired thru 6 jugs (not 5).

200g bullet tests with these revolvers follow soon. My velocity target is approx 600fps from 4" barrel--I want to be very conservative with my loads. Lyman 49th has loads in this vicinity.

MtGun44
02-15-2010, 02:02 AM
Probably the bore size and chamber/throat dimensions. I have sent chamber size and
barrel diameter make 150 fps difference in .45 ACP loads between two guns, same ammo,
same day, same chrono, minutes apart.

I would not want to stand in front of that load. Whatever you need to do to avoid violation
of Rule One for gunfights.

RULE ONE: Have a gun.

Bill

S.R.Custom
02-15-2010, 02:58 AM
... Interestingly, the bullet from the snubbie is buried up to its base, whereas the bullet from the 4" gun is embedded "only" halfway into the board. (See photos) Perhaps a measurement of barrel-cylinder gaps on the two guns will explain the difference, or perhaps it's a result of the slight out-of-roundness in each bullet caused by the "beagling" process in casting--perhaps one obturated more fully than the other.

The explanation is simpler than that. At least to this old carpenter/contractor...

The bullet that sunk into the board the deepest did so in a very soft portion of the board. That is, between two bands of dense grain. The other bullet hit the dense grain almost straight on. In a typical kiln dried Southern Yellow pine 2x12, the dense grain runs 2x as hard or more than the soft part of the grain.

dubber123
02-15-2010, 05:48 AM
The explanation is simpler than that. At least to this old carpenter/contractor...

The bullet that sunk into the board the deepest did so in a very soft portion of the board. That is, between two bands of dense grain. The other bullet hit the dense grain almost straight on. In a typical kiln dried Southern Yellow pine 2x12, the dense grain runs 2x as hard or more than the soft part of the grain.

Dang, I thoght I was gonna look like the smart one at 4:00 a.m......, Looks like SuperMag was smarter at 2:00 a.m. though.. :drinks: He's got it for sure, those grain stripes are much harder, Try hand sanding a piece some time. The grain stripes will be left standing proud of the rest unless you use a block.

LouisianaMan
02-15-2010, 12:20 PM
SuperMag & Dubber,
Y'all are up way too early in the morning, but make better sense asleep than I do awake! Perfect example of tunnel vision on my part--thinking only of the "launch" side of the equation & not the "landing" part. Your explanation makes perfect sense to me.

Soon I'll do a fuller chrono workup with these guns, but previous results indeed showed the snubbie slower than the 4". The velocity shown in my initial report was 5-shot string from 4"; I haven't chrono'ed that exact load yet from the snubbie.

Thanks for feedback & keep it coming!

dubber123
02-15-2010, 01:20 PM
Looks like you are having some fun for sure! I have a 4" J-frame .38 S&W also. I can't remember if mine is a "flat latch" version or not. I guess I'll have to dig it out now.

LouisianaMan
02-15-2010, 01:26 PM
Dubber,
Yes, definitely fun! Two of my 4" are Mod 33 flat latch; 2 are 33-1 with "normal" latch.

Dig yours out & see what she'll do!

dubber123
02-15-2010, 01:40 PM
Dubber,
Yes, definitely fun! Two of my 4" are Mod 33 flat latch; 2 are 33-1 with "normal" latch.

Dig yours out & see what she'll do!

I just looked, I thought it was one of the top boxes, that turned out to be a Mod. 36 3".... So that means the .38 S&W is on the very bottom. That will require some excavating to uncover.. ;-)