#5 MK1 .303 jungle carbine

[NSP64]

I saw one at a store the other day, It looked in good shape (someone had done some, with a knife, checkering on it). They wanted $400.00. I like how it felt and the adjustable sight at the rear. Was this too much? I didn't buy it, yet. [smilie=1:

It has 1945 stamped on it.

[JeffinNZ]

Sounds like a lot for one that has been bubba'd. Still, if you really want one.....

Look at it from this point of view. They ain't making them no more.

[oksmle]

There's one listed at $450.00 in our gun club's monthly newsletter. I believe this is it's second time around.

[sucngas]

I've been wanting a no5 for a while now. I have passed on a couple that were either in poor shape, or bubbad, price was between $350 and 375 on most all of them. I am holding out for the perfect one. If you do a quick check on gunbroker, you will see they tend to run from about 250-600 depending on the markings and condition. $600 will buy you a PERFECT no5 if you do your homework, and 400 will buy you a damn fine speciman. For one with checkering, there's no way I'd pay 400. Also, the no5 may very well be the most commonly faked milsurp out there. Lots of no4's, some no1's, and even a few 2a's have been converted to no5 configuration. Here is a link that will help with the identification of a no5, no point in getting burned on a fake. http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=52472 If you have any questions, pm tikirocker on that link; he is most helpful in identification of just about any type of enfield. At $400, I really think you can find a better speciman.

[Multigunner]

Besides the fake No.5 carbines built on No.4 actions some real No.5 had the action body replaced with a No.4 due to spreading of the rear receiver walls.
I figure those had probably been fired using Mk8z machinegun ammo which could over amp the design.

$400 is way too much for anything less than a cherry in great shape.

[dragonrider]

I have seen Jungle 5's in good shape going for $250.00 and not selling so I wouldn't give more than that.

[roverboy]

My neighbor got a good deal on one a couple months ago. It looks good and he's not shot it yet. He didn't say how much but did say that he got a deal.

[atr]

$400 is way to much in my opinion,,,
my first large caliber rifle was a #5,,,bought for $30.00 back in the 60's.....its muzzle blast, even with the supressor, was way more than was comfortable, as was the recoil. One of my history books mentions that the #5 was developed for the jungle fighting in Burma etc. and that the British troops never really took to the gun for the reasons of excessive blast and recoil...

[superior]

Last summer, I picked up an authentic no5mk1 fazakerly for $100. What's the catch? The stock had been replaced with a very fancy MonteCarlo walnut, off camber stock. I wish it would have had the original battle wood, but other than that, it's all original with matching numbers. I cant get it to shoot yet because the bore is larger than that on my SMLE. It keyoles at 35 yards with an unsized Lee c312-185-1r. The bore appears to be in great condition. I'll probably end up selling it, since I recently bought a Marlin 1895g and have lost my desire (for now) to obtain a fatter mould for the jungle carbine. The finish on the jungle carbines appears to be a black enamel, and new replica wood can be had on line, so restoring one of these pups could be fairly easy. The coolness factor alone would be worth it.

[doubs43]

The Brits stopped production of the #5 rifles because they were never able to adequately correct the "wandering zero" problem. Sight the rifle in today and tomorrow, or maybe in a few days, the POI would have changed enough to require zeroing it again. All efforts to fix the problem failed and they finally gave up.

The rubber recoil pad was hard and did little to lessen felt recoil. It didn't have a "suppressor" at the muzzle; it had a flash hider.

After I had gotten a #1 Mk III ($9.95) for Christmas, 1960, my cousin bought a #5 in nearly new condition but paid - IIRC - $24.95. Both came from "Ye Olde Hunter" in Alexandria, VA. He didn't like the recoil either!

[superior]

The wandering Zero was never proven. Speculation was that the troops wanted a semi auto rifle and "helped" perpetuate the myth. Do a search on this forum for more details. There are many no5mk1 owners with superbly accurate rifles. Some are competition winners.

[BruceB]

I have no idea where you fellers are getting your ideas about the value of the #5 Mk1 rifles.

Over a couple of years now, I've been watching for a nice one at a "fair" price at the Big Reno Show. The prices there (which I believe tend to mirror the state of the market) have run as high as $600-plus for pristine specimens.

I just took a quick look at Gunsamerica.com and found even very-ordinary #4 Rifles (NOT #5s) are posted with asking prices well above what are being quoted here. A BRAND-NEW #4 in the factory wrap is over $900 asking price! The #5s that appear there are also far above what you folks are saying, and it's a much scarcer rifle than the #4.

Personally, I have a long and exceedingly-satisfactory relationship with the #4 and #5 rifles. My regard for them is sufficient that I will gladly pay $500 for a very nice #5, should I encounter one. Temptation almost overtook me at the Reno Show some time back, when I encountered a NEW-condition #5 at $650...I was feeling a bit poor that day.

It was a #5 that, I believe to this day, saved me from serious injury or worse from an angry bear. At literally muzzle-flash range, maybe three feet, I got off four rounds in about two seconds. Given enough "incentive", it's amazing what we can do.

Events like this tend to enhance our regard for the tools of our salvation....

[doubs43]

The wandering Zero was never proven. Speculation was that the troops wanted a semi auto rifle and "helped" perpetuate the myth. Do a search on this forum for more details. There are many no5mk1 owners with superbly accurate rifles. Some are competition winners.

Ian Skennerton doesn't think it's a "myth" and his book on the Enfield goes into great detail about the armory measures that were tried to correct it. If it had been a fairy tale then I'm sure the armorers where the rifles were made would have quickly debunked it.

The book by Skennerton is "The British Service Lee" and the information relevant to the #5's wandering zero is found on pages 179 & 180. It was noted that not all batches of the #5 suffered the problem but enough did to cause the cessation of production altogether.

[BruceB]

doubs43 is correct about Mr. Skennerton, and the other renowned Lee Enfield author, Major EGB Reynolds, also details the efforts made to correct the #5's zero problem.

I've owned a few #5 Mk1s over the years, and can't honestly say that I ever had such a problem. However, I was not the rifleman that I am today, and it's very likely that I wouldn't have recognized the problem anyway. Shooting moose at fifty yards or less doesn't require a whole lot of grouping ability.

Plans for adopting an automatic rifle were already well in hand in Britain after WWII, and even if the #5 had been adopted as standard, it would only have served for a limited time before the newer rifles came on-line.

Canada was the first country to put the FAL into full production and thus into regular service, and the #4 Rifle soldiered on until each unit in turn received the C1 (FAL) rifles. I was in the Canadian Army when that occurred, and my first C1 rifle came from among the first 1000 manufactured. NICE rifle! (So was the first #4 Mk1 I was issued, #85L7408....anyone seen it? Reward offered....)

[smlekid]

you guys are lucky you don't live in Australia the prices of 303's in general has gotton ridicules juat about any No5 will get up towards $700 just for a rough one
even No1's are approaching silly prices here is a link to an online gun site that I think has driven the prices up the funny thin is these rifles sell!!!!
http://usedguns.com.au/

[TNshawn]

I have no idea where you fellers are getting your ideas about the value of the #5 Mk1 rifles.

Over a couple of years now, I've been watching for a nice one at a "fair" price at the Big Reno Show. The prices there (which I believe tend to mirror the state of the market) have run as high as $600-plus for pristine specimens.

I just took a quick look at Gunsamerica.com and found even very-ordinary #4 Rifles (NOT #5s) are posted with asking prices well above what are being quoted here. A BRAND-NEW #4 in the factory wrap is over $900 asking price! The #5s that appear there are also far above what you folks are saying, and it's a much scarcer rifle than the #4.

Personally, I have a long and exceedingly-satisfactory relationship with the #4 and #5 rifles. My regard for them is sufficient that I will gladly pay $500 for a very nice #5, should I encounter one. Temptation almost overtook me at the Reno Show some time back, when I encountered a NEW-condition #5 at $650...I was feeling a bit poor that day.

It was a #5 that, I believe to this day, saved me from serious injury or worse from an angry bear. At literally muzzle-flash range, maybe three feet, I got off four rounds in about two seconds. Given enough "incentive", it's amazing what we can do.

Events like this tend to enhance our regard for the tools of our salvation....

I guess it depends on where you live in regards to pricing. My brother in-law attends collector shows in FL and finds correct No. 4 & No. 5 in great shape for $250 to $350 range all the time. I my area in TN they go higher @ $400 range (which I refuse to pay). The last No. 4 Savage I bought was $350 and the finish would be rated @ 95%-97%.

NSP64,

I have to agree with everyone else, $400 is too high. Correct & real No. 5 stocks are hard to find on the market so it would be tough to bring it back to original status. If the stock was untouched, S/N matched and it was not a fake then $400 might not be a bad deal for your area.

[bob208]

i have fired a few real no.5's still have a nice one. i had no problem with them holding zero. as long as i used the same ammo every time change lots or cases and the poi would change some.

[NSP64]

I had looked at some web sites for #5 carbines and new what to look for in a fake, This was an authentic #5. I was looking to buy something for cast boolit shooting and thought this might be a hoot. The short barrel wouldn't be a problem shooting cast. I really like the rear mounted sites, and the gun felt good when picked up. Thanks for all the info.

[dualsport]

I have a No 5 that was cut up before I got it. It now has a 16 1/4" barrel!! Williams ramp front and Guide rear sight. Handy as hell, but wow what a muzzle blast. Might be good if I was feeding the bears like Bruce does.

[crazy mark]

If I remember right there was a company called bay state or something like that made fake #5's. I have a friend that bought one for $150 last year that was pristine. He knew what it was at the time he bought it because the guy had the original manual. I have a #5 all original that I paid $350 for about 2 years ago. It has honest wear but the rifling and bore is VG. That small recoil pad it the pain however. Mark

[Multigunner]

If I remember right there was a company called bay state or something like that made fake #5's. I have a friend that bought one for $150 last year that was pristine. He knew what it was at the time he bought it because the guy had the original manual. I have a #5 all original that I paid $350 for about 2 years ago. It has honest wear but the rifling and bore is VG. That small recoil pad it the pain however. Mark

From those I've shot the No.5 rubber buttpad seems to have been more useful in protecting the butt stock come cracking if slammed to the ground hard or used to batter in a door. It had about the same recoil absorbing ability as a bootheel.

There were aftermarket replacement pads that were hollowed out and gave a minimal bit of kick absorbtion.
Scambling into and out of vehicles or working your way up a steep incline using the rifle butt to steady yourself the rubber pad wouldn't slide out from under you as easily as the metal butt plates.