38/40

[Denver]

Anyone here have a 38/40 rifle? Haven't seen this particular cartridge mentioned here that I recall. I've got a line on a new production Win 92 and a Ruger Blackhawk 38/40 10mm convertible that the man wants to trade or sell. Not really lookin for another handgun, but I'll likely come out better if I decide to sell it down the road.
Looks like the heaviest cast boolit for the 38/40 is the 180 gr PB by RCBS. Don't know if any of the early offerings from Lyman or others were heavier. Also I was wonderin about the twist rate for this cal. This was another black powder cartridge that may have rifling that is better for black.
I've only seen a few of these new 92s at CAS shoots, and don't have any real experience with them. Anyone here with any first hand knowledge about them?

Thanks, :castmine:

[6pt-sika]

I have a Marlin 1894 in 38-40 that was made about 1906 . Bore on this one is excellent . All I shoot in it is the RCBS Cowbey mold bullet . This is a 180 grain PB .:castmine:

[woody1]

Anyone here have a 38/40 rifle? Haven't seen this particular cartridge mentioned here that I recall. I've got a line on a new production Win 92 and a Ruger Blackhawk 38/40 10mm convertible that the man wants to trade or sell. Not really lookin for another handgun, but I'll likely come out better if I decide to sell it down the road.
Looks like the heaviest cast boolit for the 38/40 is the 180 gr PB by RCBS. Don't know if any of the early offerings from Lyman or others were heavier. Also I was wonderin about the twist rate for this cal. This was another black powder cartridge that may have rifling that is better for black.
I've only seen a few of these new 92s at CAS shoots, and don't have any real experience with them. Anyone here with any first hand knowledge about them?

Thanks, :castmine:
I have a Marlin '89 in 38 WCF (38-40). 180 grains was, I believe, the standard weight for it. Since mine has a larger than std. groove diameter, I shoot sized down .44's or .45's at around 200-210 grains. I believe the std. twist rate is 1:36. I've not checked mine for twist. Regards, Woody

[Bodydoc447]

I have an Italian 1866 repro which is a lot of fun to shoot with CAS loads. I also have one of the Rugers with the 38/40 and 10mm cylinders. Both are a lot of fun. I just use Lyman 40143 or the 180 grain flavor of the month store bought bullets when shooting smokeless. I occasionally shoot Goex and SPG lubed 180 40143 bullets out of it when I want to make smoke and thunder.

Buy both. The Ruger is a limited run in relatively small numbers and should command a reasonable premium down the road.

Doc

[KCSO]

I load for my friends 38-40 in an original 1873 Winchester. The twist is relativly slow and I am using 35 grains of fffg and a 180 bullet from an old Winchester mould. I lube with Bear oil and beeswax and he is getting good accuracy to 100 yards with this load up to about 25 shots. He also has a Cimarron Colt style revolver in this caliber and shoots the same load from the revolver. In the short gun this is a honkin' load. That 180 grain bullet is doing right at 950 fps from a 7 1/2" bbl. The only smokless loads we have tried were 7.0 grains of Unique in deference to the old 73 action.

[9.3X62AL]

Denver--

If you don't mind expanding your description a bit of the "Win 92"--what maker is producing it? Assuming the rifle is a "Win 92"-equivalent in metallurgy, both the rifle and the Ruger revolver are capable of uploading well past the 1880's-level load intensities. That would be an intriguing pair-up.

A few years ago, I balked on a '92 in 38-40 that had good bore and mechanical elements, but some pretty ornate carving and tacking on its stock and fore end that neither enhanced its value nor lowered its asking price from the "Jack London's Genuine Yukon River Canoe Paddle" intensity. One good thing about the 38-40 is the profusion of boolit moulds out there in 40 S&W/10mm caliber, as long as a gas check design isn't being sought. GC's are pretty superfluous at 1880's velocities and pressures in a rifle (1200 FPS or so), but to really exploit the caliber's potential with that '92 a gas check design might be indicated. An older rifle or foreign-made newer rifle might need a little more boolit diameter than the modern run of 40/10mm molds provide.

My several molds in this caliber all fall out right at .4015"-.402", while the few references I've read on the caliber show that grooves can run .402"-.403" pretty frequently in older rifles. I slugged the throats on a buddy's Colt New Service in 38-40 some years ago, and they ran between .401" and .402", with groove at a fat .400". He still won't part with it, and hasn't shot the thing for 15 years--what perversity! It needs a good home.

[floodgate]

Anyone here have a 38/40 rifle? Haven't seen this particular cartridge mentioned here that I recall. I've got a line on a new production Win 92 and a Ruger Blackhawk 38/40 10mm convertible that the man wants to trade or sell. Not really lookin for another handgun, but I'll likely come out better if I decide to sell it down the road.
Looks like the heaviest cast boolit for the 38/40 is the 180 gr PB by RCBS. Don't know if any of the early offerings from Lyman or others were heavier. Also I was wonderin about the twist rate for this cal. This was another black powder cartridge that may have rifling that is better for black.
I've only seen a few of these new 92s at CAS shoots, and don't have any real experience with them. Anyone here with any first hand knowledge about them?

Thanks, :castmine:

Denver:

Look for the #401452, an "extreme Keith" type SWC PB by Gordon Boser, 196 grs. You can find it on the CASTPICS "research and data" page under "Lyman Moulds". But I doubt it will feed well in the '92 repro. It was regarded as the .41 Magnum of its day in the handguns: slightly lighter recoil, slightly faster and - some say - a bit more accurate than its .44 cal. brother. According to the table in an Ideal Handbook from 1904, Colt used a 1 in 30" twist, in their rifles at least.

floodgate

[Denver]

Denver--

If you don't mind expanding your description a bit of the "Win 92"--what maker is producing it? Assuming the rifle is a "Win 92"-equivalent in metallurgy, both the rifle and the Ruger revolver are capable of uploading well past the 1880's-level load intensities. That would be an intriguing pair-up.

A few years ago, I balked on a '92 in 38-40 that had good bore and mechanical elements, but some pretty ornate carving and tacking on its stock and fore end that neither enhanced its value nor lowered its asking price from the "Jack London's Genuine Yukon River Canoe Paddle" intensity. One good thing about the 38-40 is the profusion of boolit moulds out there in 40 S&W/10mm caliber, as long as a gas check design isn't being sought. GC's are pretty superfluous at 1880's velocities and pressures in a rifle (1200 FPS or so), but to really exploit the caliber's potential with that '92 a gas check design might be indicated. An older rifle or foreign-made newer rifle might need a little more boolit diameter than the modern run of 40/10mm molds provide.

My several molds in this caliber all fall out right at .4015"-.402", while the few references I've read on the caliber show that grooves can run .402"-.403" pretty frequently in older rifles. I slugged the throats on a buddy's Colt New Service in 38-40 some years ago, and they ran between .401" and .402", with groove at a fat .400". He still won't part with it, and hasn't shot the thing for 15 years--what perversity! It needs a good home.

Al,

The rifle is one of Winchester's "Made in Japan" by Mirouku repros complete with tang safety. If it follows the same line for quality that the Browning/Winchesters have, it should be great. It has a 20 inch octagon barrel and is a limited edition of 500 in this cal. The guy also has a 32/20 in the same rifle.

[9.3X62AL]

THAT would be a real gem, all right. Thanks for the run-down!

[Bad Flynch]

I bought two of the Ruger Vaqs. in the .38-40/40S&W in stainless (yecch!), and had a Marlin 1894CB rebarreled to .38-40. All I did after that was to ream the cylinder throats so that they were all of a correct size for the grooves.

I have shot smokeless (VV320, IIRC), but really prefer either 32 grains of 2&1/2Fg Goex with a Winchester primer or a reduced load of 20 grains of 2&1/2Fg with a 7cc Lee Powder Scoop full of instant gritts on top as a filler. All of that with a 180 grain cast bullet.

The bullets I have been using are from Desperado Cowboy Bullets www.cowboybullets.com (http://www.cowboybullets.com) and are 1:20 Sn:Pb, weigh about 180 grains, and are sized 0.401". A bullet of 0.401" fits the throats just right, but with black and a soft bullet, that is less of an issue.

These loads shoot fine, but the tight Rugers tend to bind up from fouling a little, so will probably open up the barrel-cylinder gap a tad, eventually.

I have two bullet moulds that I have not tried yet: a standard Lyman 175 grain RNFP. That should work in anything. I also have a PRS 180 design--it is a special order Lee with 4 cavities--that has huge grease grooves. I am hoping that when I get around to casting again that the huge grease groove of the PRS design will allow me to shoot longer without cleaning. We'll see. The PRS design is also a RNFP design and I figure I'll need it so that it will feed well in the rifle.

Hope that helps.

[Denver]

Well I did it, went and traded for the Win 92 and the Ruger 38/40. Both guns are in really nice condition and haven't been shot much at all. In addition the guy included a set of RCBS dies and an addtional Lee factory crimper. Also about a hundred cases and a box of 180gr cast boolits. The only thing I'm lacking is a shell holder, so haven't loaded up anything yet. A trip to the 'shop tomorrow should put me in business. Really lookin forward to putting the rifle to the test. This one with the 20 inch octagon barrel really feels great and not as wispy as the round barrel models. Got to do something about that rebounding hammer and the heavy trigger though. I read about a fix for these, just don't recall where.
If this thing looks like it will shoot, I'm thinking about the Lee 175 TC boolit in a 6 holer. That boolit looks like it should feed well in a lever action. I'd like something heavier, but don't want single or double cav molds to mess with.
Looks like most of the shotgun/pistol powders will be good to start with. My old Lyman Cast Bullet book says 7 grs of Unique gives 1115 fps to a 172 gr boolit from a rifle. Looks like a good place to start.

Denver :Fire: :castmine:

[6pt-sika]

Congrats and Goodluck :drinks: