.41 mag GC or PB?

[DeadWood]

Looking at getting a mold from MiHec/MP molds

http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=58158

I'm shooting a S&W M57 in .41cal. Trying to decide if i need a GC or PB design? Was hoping more experienced casters could shine some light on this area for me. Would be using it for paper punching and maybe deer hunting, but would be 30yd or closer shot for me for that.

Haven't seen alot of GC molds for handguns and the only thing i new was they weren't needed if keeping under 1600fps?

Thanks for the help

[sixshot]

Deadwood, with the proper bullet fit (cylinder throats) & the correct alloy a pb is all you need. We cast for simplicity & economy, now we also want an accurate bullet when we're done but a good Keith style or LBT will get you there. I've been loading & shooting the plain base slugs since the 60's, if you use a quality lube, have the correct fit as mentioned, with a somewhat hard alloy (10-14 bhn) you're in business.

Dick

[MtGun44]

I second what sixshot says. A good boolit design, proper fit, good lube and alloy and you
will be fine about 95% of the time. Some guns have 'issues' like constricted bore at the
frame threads or poorly dimensioned cyl throat to groove diam relationships and need to
be corrected or traded. Occasionally there is a revolver with some demon in it that will
just lead where most others are happy.

I avoid GCs in pistols and have never seen any case where the GC boolit worked better in
any of my revolvers. Others will disagree.

Finally, I dislike buying, handling and generally dealing with the little copper pains in the butt.

Bill

[GLynn41]

A gc can help -- all depends on gun load alloy etc -- if you want one they can simplify-- if you want to do it right likely not needed

[44man]

Finally, all good answers to the question. But you might want to test boolits harder then 10 to 14 BHN. You really need to recover boolits to see what is going on. You need to shoot for accuracy too.
There is nothing wrong with a PB.

[azrednek]

Glynn, chances are good you wont be satisfied untill you try it both ways. If you decide later on down the road you don't want to use gas checks you wont have much trouble recouping your money selling the gas checks and the mold.

[GLynn41]

or shoot them without the gc --I do often in the .41 with the heavier bullets but you are right the gc molds seems to sell better- so why not

[McKee Boykin]

Get one of each. That's what I did.

[Dale53]

I have been shooting my own cast bullets for nearly sixty years. I still shoot 5000-7500 rounds of cast bullet pistol and revolver bullets a year.

I use a plain base bullet in all of these calibers (.32 S&W Long, .32 H&R Magnum, .38 Special/.357 Magnum, .44 Special/.44 Magnum, .45 ACP/.45 Auto Rim, .45 Colt).

In most of these various revolvers and autos I have shot them from target to full velocity loads in the respective calibers.

All of my deer have been taken (from 10 yards to 85 yards) with .44 Magnums at 1200-1300 fps chronographed velocities. Only one deer, the last, was taken with a gas checked bullet. All of the rest were taken with Keith style (Lyman 429421 or H&G #503) 250 gr bullets.

The accuracy has been uniformly about 2" at 50 yards with scoped guns. At 100 yards most of the bullets will stay on a playing card. That doesn't match 44Man's accuracy, but even at 100 yards it'll put me within 2" of where I am holding on a deer and that is good enough for me. For the record, I BELIEVE 44man and his targets. My standards are just not quite as high as his. When I get to the level I've discussed, I quit shooting off the bench and spend all of my time trying to stay in "shooting shape" shooting offhand. THAT's my thing - shooting standing and from various field positions. I will take a rest off any readily available tree, rock, or shoot kneeling or standing in the field - what ever is required. However, nearly all of my practice is shooting standing.

I have gas check moulds but have not had the need to make much use of them. The quantity I cast, shoot and load, not to mention the expense, precludes me "fooling" with gas checks for little or no gain. I DO what I need to do to have proper bullet fit. I use the correct alloy (as I perceive it) for the velocity in question.

I do believe that there are occasional revolvers that need gas checks, it's just that none of mine do...

FWIW
Dale53

[Heavy lead]

I bought both, I may sell the gas checked one, if that tells you anything, not sure I need it, but a few weeks more of testing different loads will tell.

[fourarmed]

In general I agree with the sentiments expressed in this thread, but I will say that I have never obtained the accuracy with PB boolits that I have with GC in my Dan Wesson silhouette revolver. I am talking about full power loads capable of 6" or smaller groups at 200m. EVERY TIME. I just can't get that with any of my PB molds.

[hamour]

I recently bought two Mihec brass cramer moulds in 41 cal. One in PB and one in GC. The GC is for the future when I find a 41 mag carbine. The PB is for my mod 57 4".

Now I need to convince the wife unit that I "Need" a 41 mag carbine to go with my new mould!

[sixshot]

When working up to top end loads in any of the big calibers (41 mag & up) a GC bullet can be more accurate, you just have to shoot & see, also the alloy hardness usually has to go up when the velocity goes up. Its all about experimenting & thats what most of us like about shooting cast.
I seldom shoot any load above 1200 fps, if I need more "smack" I move up in caliber, going from a 250 gr slug in 41, 44 or 45 at 1200 fps to a Ruger 480 & 370 gr bullets at 1200 fps really amps up the horsepower. Most of the time....not always, shooting beyond 1200 fps is wasted velocity & increased recoil, & recoil usually affects accuracy..... isn't accuracy the ultimate goal? Didn't say I couldn't shoot the heavier loads, said I didn't like to! Thanks, Quigley!!

Dick

[Dan Cash]

I have a M27 no dash that does well with a LBT bullet that weighs in about 260 gr. It is plain base and accuracy is very satisfying; 2" @ 40 yards for me and my old eyes. I use a top load in excess of 14 gr. 2400 with no leading. 5.5 gr unique works nicely with same bullet for less rigorous use. If the bullet fits, a gas check is not so critical.

[44man]

I have been shooting my own cast bullets for nearly sixty years. I still shoot 5000-7500 rounds of cast bullet pistol and revolver bullets a year.

I use a plain base bullet in all of these calibers (.32 S&W Long, .32 H&R Magnum, .38 Special/.357 Magnum, .44 Special/.44 Magnum, .45 ACP/.45 Auto Rim, .45 Colt).

In most of these various revolvers and autos I have shot them from target to full velocity loads in the respective calibers.

All of my deer have been taken (from 10 yards to 85 yards) with .44 Magnums at 1200-1300 fps chronographed velocities. Only one deer, the last, was taken with a gas checked bullet. All of the rest were taken with Keith style (Lyman 429421 or H&G #503) 250 gr bullets.

The accuracy has been uniformly about 2" at 50 yards with scoped guns. At 100 yards most of the bullets will stay on a playing card. That doesn't match 44Man's accuracy, but even at 100 yards it'll put me within 2" of where I am holding on a deer and that is good enough for me. For the record, I BELIEVE 44man and his targets. My standards are just not quite as high as his. When I get to the level I've discussed, I quit shooting off the bench and spend all of my time trying to stay in "shooting shape" shooting offhand. THAT's my thing - shooting standing and from various field positions. I will take a rest off any readily available tree, rock, or shoot kneeling or standing in the field - what ever is required. However, nearly all of my practice is shooting standing.

I have gas check moulds but have not had the need to make much use of them. The quantity I cast, shoot and load, not to mention the expense, precludes me "fooling" with gas checks for little or no gain. I DO what I need to do to have proper bullet fit. I use the correct alloy (as I perceive it) for the velocity in question.

I do believe that there are occasional revolvers that need gas checks, it's just that none of mine do...

FWIW
Dale53
Thank you Dale, it is refreshing to me. My passion is revolver accuracy but you are also correct that such accuracy is not needed for hunting.
But I am stuck and can't escape. I want at least one, one hole group from a revolver with cast boolits. Just one and I will be happy.
My love for the revolver is the reason, just how wonderful is that piece of machinery? How great the challenge?
And how much fun to hunt with!

[jwp475]

I prefer my hard ast plain base bullets for top end loads to be in the 22-24 Brinell hardnes they are accurate do not lead excessively and are to hard and do not shatter on any surface. I use a lot of wheel wieghts wate dropped from the mold. Great bullets IMHO

[azrednek]

I recently bought two Mihec brass cramer moulds in 41 cal. One in PB and one in GC. The GC is for the future when I find a 41 mag carbine. The PB is for my mod 57 4".

Now I need to convince the wife unit that I "Need" a 41 mag carbine to go with my new mould!

I see you suffer from the same disease and addiction as I do. Buying a mold for a gun you don't have yet. I like to think of it as dedication but my wife says "something wrong here". I have yet to convince her the only known cure is buying more guns.

Kidding aside, I've been lusting for a 41 mag carbine for years. About a year ago I had a trade, my two original condition Jap rifles for a Marlin 41 mag rifle. Buyer backed out at the last moment.

I've bid a 41 Mag Marlin rifle twice on Gunbroker only to be out bid in the final minutes.

[jr545]

I see you suffer from the same disease and addiction as I do. Buying a mold for a gun you don't have yet. I like to think of it as dedication but my wife says "something wrong here". I have yet to convince her the only known cure is buying more guns.

Kidding aside, I've been lusting for a 41 mag carbine for years. About a year ago I had a trade, my two original condition Jap rifles for a Marlin 41 mag rifle. Buyer backed out at the last moment.

I've bid a 41 Mag Marlin rifle twice on Gunbroker only to be out bid in the final minutes.


It's good to know that I'm not alone in my madness.
I've been looking for a (ahem) inexpensive Marlin 1894FG as a shooter.
Some day...<sigh>