New to Salvaged powders so tell me whats up Please

[340six]

Hi I have been a reloader for 30+ years I still use a single stage press so I can keep an eye on each bullet.[smilie=s:
I may be more interested in this sub form just for the learning curve even if I do not do it.
Not to old to learn:bigsmyl2:
Anyway been reading here and it is interesting to say the least.
So whats the $0.02 ? Just powders from old pull down ammo?
I have quite a few older powders like an 8 pound Red Dot and have used up the old Dupont made IMR's but still have some 4350 or 4370.
All smell good and trickle fine.
Can someone give a run down on what is up with this subform thanks Kevin

[TCLouis]

lumped together with this definition.

There is USA milsurp that comes in two different versions (sometimes with the same name):

Milsurp is powder that was purchased to load military ammuntion and for one reason or another was never used.

Milsurp Pulldown is powder that was loaded into ammunition and later this ammunition was pulled apart and the components were sold.

Milsurp or new powder that comes from some country outside of the US of A.

Powder that is off spec or for some reason makes it way on to the reloaders marketplace.

Some of the powders are very useful and at one time had a price advantage, others may still have a price advantage.

Typically their application requires some reloading (internal ballistics) skill not needed if one sticks to off the shelf powder.

Some reloaders are willing to work with the powders quirks, some are not.


Most true Milsurp powder is all but gonee.

[Jim]

Usta wuz, you could get all sorts of milsurps for just about any application. An' it weren't all that expensive, neither. Nowadays, they're gettin' scarce and pricey. Good bit of stuff still out there, ya' jus' gotta do some lookin' .
Lots of fellas here still burnin' milsurps, your most humble servant included. Let us know what you're wantin' to load for and maybe we can give ya' some ideas on what to use and where to find it.

[MtGun44]

The basic deal is that you are getting non-cannister grade of powders. This means that
they have different burning rates from the powders that are tested by the manufacturers and
for which they provide proper, safe reloading data.

This is the ADVANCED portion of reloading and NOT the place for folks that are not careful,
methodical, cautious and did I mention CAREFUL?

No magic, but you are pretty much working without a net. You get a hint from the supplier
like "use BLC-2 data". So don't even think that this means that the stuff you just bought
is "just like BLC-2" so you can pick a max load and go ahead.

A chrono is almost mandatory, as is a good bit of humility. If you are very careful and work
up to normal velocities for a powder in the same burning speed range with your unknown
powder, then you stop.

The advantage is cheap powder, although lately the price gap is getting so small as to make
it kinda questionable for many folks, besides there seems to be less and less surplus
powder out there.

So - you get your "hint" of what kind of data to use as a staring point, then you back off about
20-25% and shoot a few loads over a chrono, using this as a reference as to how your batch
compares to the "hint" powder. Suppose you are told that your batch of WC820 is "like H110", so you
are shooting a 250gr Keith in a .44 mag. The starting load for H110 with a 240 gr JACKETED
bullet is 23 gr. So - since lead typically generates lower pressures than jacketed, you would
try about 80% of 23 gr or 18.5 gr. Shoot 5 rds over the chrono. Say you find that this is a
fairly HOT load, and the velocity is 1350 fps, nearly what you have measured with a full charge of H110
at max pressure. This would tell you that your powder is quite a bit faster burning than
H110, so you need to look at your loading manuals (you have 5 or 6 different ones, don't you?)
and see what powder seems to be close to the single data point that you have now. Maybe
this is more like what you see for AA9. If so, you may go up or down a small amount and
see how that load compares to your new 'example' powder. You should assume that you
cannot get higher velocity from some unknown powder than with a max pressure but known
safe load will go in your gun with the same bullet.

Hope that helps a bit.

Bill

[Shiloh]

A chronograph is essential for getting the most out surplus powders. As stated they come with a "similar too" or starting load. The chronograph allows to read as velocities go up and extreme spreads and standard deviations go down when approaching the "Sweet Spot" for a particular charge wt. for a particular bullet or boolit.

Military powders are ordered on the basis that it must give a certain velocity at a given pressure.
The ordnance people decide what charge wt. gives this specification. If it doesn't perform, it is rejected and may or may not have wound up on the surplus market.

Some lots of the old surplus 4895 loaded at 48 grs. for a .30 cal in the .30-06 M-2 style round.
Another lot may have done the same thing at 49.3 or so.

This is why sellers of surplus powders say to work up loads carefully always watching for signs of high pressure.

Shiloh

[Jim]

With all due respect, I'd like to disagree with the requirement for a chrony for this type of work. I have a chrony but have not put the battery in it in over three years. I'm much more concerned with pressure signs and then accuracy than M/V.

[Heavy lead]

pressure=velocity, usually

I use a chrono with any powder, just another tool to detect pressure, just can't take off the training wheels.

[spqrzilla]

I'll second the recommendation for a chrono - the traditional "pressure signs" are not as reliable as people think.