Ruger 30 cabine pistol

[barrrel]

I traded for a ruger 30 carbine pistol,I needs some loads for 113 gr. lee bullet. Ishoot 454 casull,44 mag,recoil not that big of a deal,but none makes the noise that the 30 carbine does,is cast loads going to be any quiter? I wear hearing prtection. TIA, barrel

[Glen]

Noise will depend on what pressures you load the round to, not whether or not the bullet is jacketed or lead. My favorite load for the Ruger .30 Carbine is the 110 grain Lyman 311316 GC-HP over 12.3 grains of Accurate Arms #9 (about 1550 fps). Just loaded up a hundred rounds of that load the other night in fact. What that cast HP does to a rodent has to be seen to be believed!

[versifier]

In my Contender with the Lee soupcan sized .308, I load 7.3gr of UNQ, 1.522OAL, and it likes ww better than lino. I was just at the range today comparing the two alloys. 10 shot groups offhand with open sights at 25yds were staying under 3", even with the blackflies biting. With a bigger diameter and pushing the OAL out a bit, I think I will easily be able to get the groups below 2". If it doesn't rain tomorrow, I may do some more testing with various other boolits and .310 diameter.

[versifier]

I tested Lee 311-100-2R boolits today. Alloys were 1/2 lino 1/2 pure (86gr) and ww (100gr) sized .310. It looked like I was patterning buckshot. Then I tried some Sierra 85gr. They all stayed on the paper, but they would not really group (6-7" @ 25yds). I suspect this barrel will only go for 110gr and heavier boolits. Back to soupcans in ww at .310 and see if I can shrink the 3" groups some more. After that, maybe I'll try a Lee C309-120-R just for comparison. I want a small game load and don't really want a RN for it, but I could always hp some of them.

[StarMetal]

versi,

You need to check out my 30 Luger bullet that I made the mould for then. Deputy Al is testing some. It's a TC nose bullet 100 grs.

Joe

[Bucks Owin]

I traded for a ruger 30 carbine pistol,I needs some loads for 113 gr. lee bullet. Ishoot 454 casull,44 mag,recoil not that big of a deal,but none makes the noise that the 30 carbine does,is cast loads going to be any quiter? I wear hearing prtection. TIA, barrel

Don't own a .30 carbine Blackhawk (yet!) but any that I've been around at the range have been "earsplitters", that's for sure! Unfortunately, I'd say the only way to quiet one down is by reducing velocity substantially and that's no fun...

Dennis

PS:

PLEASE tell me that you have no intention of ruining a fine (and getting somewhat hard to find) .30 Blackhawk with the installation of some kind of suppressor..... ;)

[barrrel]

Naw, I woud,nt do that,dont compress no noise or bore holes in barrels,if they were supposed to be ported the GOOD LORD would have made them that way.

[nelson133]

My Ruger .30 is LOUD, but a lot of fun. I've got an old Lyman mould that drops a round nosed bullet around 120 grains, not a gas check. 11.5 grains of 2400 gives a big bang.

[McLintock]

I've got an Old Model Ruger in .30 Carbine that I fitted a second cylinder to for shooting 32-20's out of. I always thought a revolver ought to have a rimmed cartridge, so did this after reading Hamilton Bowens book "The Custom Revolver" where he called the 32-20 conversion on an Old Model a great combination.
Since I couldn't afford his conversion, I just took a New Model cylinder, opened up the throats to .312", and fire formed 32-20's to it. You end up with either a 32-20 improved or rimmed 30 Carbine, but I prefer the former, as it sounds more like a handgun round and more "western" if you will. I shoot .311" gas checked 115 gr bullets in it and have gotten up to a max load so far of 14.5 gr of H110, although 13.5 gr shoots a little more accurately and 12.0 gr of IMR 4227 shoots real nice with not too bad of a blast.
Here's a picture of the finished product on the right with a couple of 32-20's and a .32 H&R Mag on the left.
http://pic7.picturetrail.com/VOL206/1303399/7384995/99286037.jpg
McLintock

[Bucks Owin]

I've got an Old Model Ruger in .30 Carbine that I fitted a second cylinder to for shooting 32-20's out of. I always thought a revolver ought to have a rimmed cartridge, so did this after reading Hamilton Bowens book "The Custom Revolver" where he called the 32-20 conversion on an Old Model a great combination.
Since I couldn't afford his conversion, I just took a New Model cylinder, opened up the throats to .312", and fire formed 32-20's to it. You end up with either a 32-20 improved or rimmed 30 Carbine, but I prefer the former, as it sounds more like a handgun round and more "western" if you will. I shoot .311" gas checked 115 gr bullets in it and have gotten up to a max load so far of 14.5 gr of H110, although 13.5 gr shoots a little more accurately and 12.0 gr of IMR 4227 shoots real nice with not too bad of a blast.
Here's a picture of the finished product on the right with a couple of 32-20's and a .32 H&R Mag on the left.

McLintock

I like it! Cool idea...

Dennis

[versifier]

McLintock,
Excellent Idea! Is that boolit a Lee soupcan? What kind of velocities are you getting with those loads?

[McLintock]

The bullet is from an NEI mould, it was the only gas check one I could find when I started looking for a suitable bullet. My chrony has been packed away for two years so haven't been able to check velocities, but the 12.0 gr of 4227 is supposed to give about 1350 fps. It was chrony'd by John Taffin with a Bowen converted Ruger 3 screw; he also said he got excellent accuracy with this load. I'ts kind of my standard type load anymore for both unmodified 32-20's and this one; I've got two of the Ruger Buckeye Specials in 32-20 that I shoot also. I'm thinking the H110 loads are hotter than this by 100-200 fps, by the way they feel when I touch them off. Now that I'm moved into our new house and have unpacked the chrony, maybe I can get some figures on the H110 loads. I've gotten silhouette loads of over 15 grs of H110 from members on this forum, but haven't tried going that hot yet and probably won't; 14.5 was enough for me. It's fun to shoot though, that big frame and long barrel just soak up the recoil; I've put a Super Blackhawk grip frame on mine as well for a little better grip.
McLintock

[D.Mack]

Barrel Got one of those, it shoots flat with out a lot of recoil, alot having to do with it's wieght, since they didn't have to remove a lot of metal to make those holes in the cylinder or barrel. My only comment is invest in a case trimmer of some kind if you don't have one already. since it headspaces on the mouth you need to trim all of your brass to start with. I don't know if mine has a short chamber or if they are all that way, but if I dont trim or at least check to make sure that trimmed cases haven't grown, I get a few cases that lock the gun or cause the cylinder to drag, even with new brass. Also since it really does headspace on the mouth roll crimps are out of the question. Also since the 30 carbine and 32-20 have almost the same internal capacity, you can look for some mild 32-20 data to load, then work it up if you feel the need.DM

[beagle]

The .30 Carbine Ruger is a nice little gun. The problem with most folks is that they look at it as a handgun version of the .30 Carbine round intended for the M1 carbine. This is natural as most loading data published in out loading manuals is for the M1 Carbine and is simply reguritated in the section for the .30 Carbine pistol. These loads tend to be hotter loads intended to function the action on the M1 Carbine. While they're all right in the Ruger, they tend to be hotter than you need for normal shooting.

With this in mind, you can tone down the loads a bit and I've successfully used starting data for the .38 Special and worked up as there's loads of data around for the .38 Special and cast.

Bullets abound for this little gem. Almost any of the light .30s will do. I tend to use PB bullets to avoid the outrageous cost of gas checks these days. My favorite is a Lyman 3118/311008. I have a HP version of this mould and it usually gets the most usage. The Lyman 311465 in either the solid or HP persausion is a fantastic shooter if you want a GC bullet.

My particular gun shoots best with .310 sized bullets but I've used everything from .309" - .312" in it with no problems. With the .311s and 312s, the chambering is a bit tight but they will shoot. The .309" is a bit small and I can detect the difference in accuracy.

A taper crimp die is a must and you need to check the case length on cases. Most military cases will be shorter than specified length. Commercials tend to run long.

Initially when using military cases, cut back about 1.0 grain on you powder charge as they tend to run thicker. I have one lot of Norma cases produced for the French Army that are very heavy.

WC820 has proven to be a very good powder in this round in the Ruger as has Lil Gun.

As has been pointed out, .32-20 cases can be used. In fact, my gun will chamber and shoot factory .32-20s. The cases tend to run too long and need to be trimmed before reloading as they will fail to chamber with cast bullets and tie up the cylinder. They shoot well though and may be worth the effort.

The .30 Ruger is a great little gun. Learn to load for it and load to your desired level and you'll have a great little plinking.small game pistol./beagle

[03lover]

The Ruger Blackhawk in .30 Carbine is a fun gun to shoot and can be very accurate.

A common complaint is the big bang when it is fired. It always amazes me that so many shooters can't figure out that the Ruger Blackhawk is a revolver, not a rifle.

Load it like a pistol and it will act and sound like a pistol. The problem of the big bang or terrible muzzle blast is created by shooting .30 Carbine ammo that is intended for a rifle. That ammo, factory or reload is loaded with a powder that needs a minimum of 12 to 14 inches to burn completely. Shoot it in a revolver and the result is a big muzzle blast.

I reload for my Ruger Blackhawk .30 Carbine using pistol powders, mostly Unique. My ruger does very good with a modest load, 5.5 grains of Unique or 5.0 grains of Win. 231 behind a 130 grain Lyman cast plain base bullet. I size these bullets to .310" diameter.

Treat your Ruger to some good pistol loads and it will reward you with a pleasent gun to shoot this is accurate and a joy to shoot.

[Crooked Creek]

Found this old thread on a subject I am currently pursuing, that of using 32-20 brass in my 30 Carbine Blackhawk. Has anyone used used Starline 32-20 brass in the 30 Carbine ? I've heard it is a little thicker than W-W in the neck and that rim thickness may be a little thinner. I bought some W-W (have not yet tried it) and found it is both quite a bit smaller in diameter ahead of the rim and shorter than factory chamber specs. (of both the 30 Carbine and 32-20), which concerns me a little. Not worried about the rim thickness, if too thick, I can correct it. Problem I have had with carbine cases with cast is the little ring of lead that develops ahead of the headspace "ring" at the end of the chamber. That lead makes subsequent loads "headspace long" and have tied up the cylinder when the round reaches the recoil plate before it reaches the locked in firing position. Don't know if I should invest in ordering some Starline brass, or will I have more of the same as I have with the W-W brass (?).

[runfiverun]

if the starline is truly thicker it would be worth pursuing
[that is their reputation anyway's]
i have a problem getting enough neck tension with the thinner ww brass in the 30 car. die
and it is easy enough to use 32-20 loads for a much funner gun to shoot.

[03lover]

Crooked Creek,

I have shot many hundreds of rounds of the 130 grain Lyman cast bullet sized .310" diameter through my Ruger 30 Carbine Blackhawk and haven't had the problem you refer to.

I use military .30 Carbine brass most of the time and on occasion some Remington brass.

I am not sure changing to 32-20 brass is going to help you. What bullet are you using? What diameter, type of lead used, type of lube used?

I do know from personal experience in a couple of revovers and semi auto pistols, that leading in the area you are having trouble with and in the semi auto pistols, leading developes in the forcing cone area and forward into the bore when the bullet shape, diameter or short overall length of the cartridge allows powder gases to blow by the bullet before the bullet fills the chamber throat or in the semi auto, the forcing cone and bore.

Some fix to the problem is to size bullets to the chamber throats or .001" over. Try seating the bullet out as far as the cylinder length will permit as long as there is enough bullet seated in the shell case for good retention. Use good hard cast bullets with a good lube. Finally, try a faster type of powder as long as you can still get the velocity you want without getting pressures too high. I have never had much luck with factory swaged bullets except in the 38 Special with light target loads.

Pushing the high end loads, high pressure, will aggravate the problem unless you use gas checked bullets or jacketed ones. High pressure loads tend to swell the bullet base of plain based bullets enough that they are more prone to leading in front of the chamber throats.

[Crooked Creek]

Thanks for the input guys. I think I'm going to order some Starline brass and see what I get.
Yes, I want the gun to be fun to shoot as I have loaded hot jacketed bullet loads, and while they may have there place, the noise kinda takes the fun out of it.
03lover, to answer some of your questions I'll start by setting the stage with some background. My cylinder measures .360" at the back with .308" throats. I have four Lyman molds, that seem appropriate, that I plan to try. They are: 311419, 88 Gr. GC FP; 311227, 90 Gr. PB RN; 311316, 112 GR. GC FP; 311359, 115 Gr. GC Pt (this one marked on box as for "30 M1"). The 311419 is the one I have tried so far that caused the earlier mentioned issues. They were cast of 50/50 WW/Lino, sized .308, lubed with RCBS green, load was 10 Gr. H4227. While I did not chrono the load, and shot very few due to the lead ring increasing the headspace to the point of precluding chambering subsequent rounds, it was pleasant enough and I'm guessing around 1050-1150 FPS.
Remember that I mentioned the W-W brass was undersized from factory specs. ? Well, I did some additional digging and am more confused now. The specs. I had for the 32-20 were 1.315" OAL (30 Carbine at 1.290") and .354" dia. just ahead of the rim (30 Carbine at .356"). The average of five 32-20 W-W brass I measured were 1.2782" OAL and .3458" dia. just ahead of the rim. I looked at four reloading manuals that showed dimensions. All agreed as above on the 30 Carbine. On the 32-20, Speer #12 and Hodgdon #27 both show .3443" ahead of the rim, Lee shows .352 at a point .200" from the back of the case (?) and Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook 3rd Edition shows .353" ahead of rim. All four agreed on the OAL of 1.315". I'm not trying to get overly picky about these dimensions, but I was intially feeling pretty good about the .002" difference between the 30 Carbine and 32-20 ahead of the rim and the .003" expansion (per side, .360" chamber less .354" divided by 2). Now, if the Starline brass is as small, or smaller, than the .3458" W-W, I'm expecting there will be a noticeable budge (even though it may not hurt a thing) on the fired cases, given the .014" difference from the chamber. Just my thoughts, any experience or opinions ?

[03lover]

Crooked Creek,

I still think the heavy load with a light cast bullet is your problem. There is too much opportunity for the high pressure hot gases to get around the bullet causing flame cutting before the bullet is swaged down into the chamber throat. The gas check bullets may lessen the problem, but I wouldn't bet on it.

For myself, all of my 30 Carbine Ruger heavy loads are loaded with jacketed bullets. I use my cast bullets for 30 Carbine light and mid range loads. The Lyman 130 grain bullet, mold number 311410 works well in my Ruger and works well in the original military .30 Carbine semi auto. For the Ruger, I use 5.5 grains of Unique with an estimated velocity of 1160fps.

That isn't a wimpy load, works great in my Ruger and since it is a plain based bullet, I don't have the added cost of a gas check. Cheap shooting.

For what it is worth. Good luck.

[03lover]

Taper crimp and cartridge brass, especially pistol, the shorter they are the worse the problem. The brass being thicker as you go toward the base and the use of a taper crimp can cause lead bullets to be undersized when loaded.

I have had serious leading and terrible accuracy, even bullets tumbling at fifty feet, because of something we probably don't even look for. UNDERSIZED BULLETS. I check for it now having had this problem more than once.

I have had 9mm, and 38 Super give me fits until I realized the bullets were being reduced in diameter by the brass shell casings they were being seated in. This can happen in the 30 Carbine also.

How much a bullet of a given diameter will be sized down by the shell casing depends on several things. How tight the sizing die is, the size of the expander die and the amount of taper crimp you apply. The hardness of the bullet has considerable affect also.

My most recent example of this problem occurred today. I had loaded four different types of cast bullets, all sized to .3565" diameter and cast of wheel weights and air cooled. In the 38 Super Starline brass, known to be a bit thicker than some other brass, the bullets I pulled measured an average of .3515" from the base to just over half way up and then the taper crimp to a case mouth diameter of .375 reduced the top of the bullet diameter even more. That is about .005" under the starting point and causes all kinds of trouble. We would not think of loading bullets that small knowing it would lead to all sorts of problems.

In the 38 Super Winchester brass the reduction in bullet diameter was much less due to the thinner brass. The pulled bullets measured an average of .355" diameter with the taper crimp area much smaller, for a reduction in diameter of .0015". Yet these didn't shoot very well either.

I know some of you will have to see it to believe it. I know it happens and todays example was dramatic with the Starline brass. I guess the day at the range wasn't a total loss. I did learn something with all the bullets I pulled. I would suggest to everyone interested or those that are having problems, to load some empty cases just as if you were loading to shoot and then pull the bullets and check the diameter against what they were before loading. You may be surprised.

Now I have to search for the right combination of sizing die, expander, amount of taper crimp and bullet hardness and still maintain enough bullet tention to avoid set-back when the auto loader cycles, eliminate the leading and provide good accuracy. That isn't asking for too much is it?

Now I wish I had only one manufacturers brass from the same lot for all of my pistols. It would make the search much shorter. As it is, I will have to find the magic number for each kind of brass.

[Wally]

I have a Ruger in the .30 M-1 carbine. I use 5.0 Grains of Hp-38 with the Lyman 130 grain RN CB and get 1,100 FPS. I get many flyers, but some shots are very accurate. I checked the bore--it is .308", but the revolver chambers are .311~.312" or significantly oversized. The mold will not cast bullets at .312" and even if it did they probably would not chamber in the cylinder..any suggestions? I probably will contact Ruger, maybe I can talk them into giving me a cylinder with correct sized chambers...

[03lover]

Wally,

I have good luck with cast bullets .001 to .002" over groove diameter. Having to go .003 to .004" over groove diameter is pushing it a little. Also, as you noted, the rounds may not chamber then.

Chamber throats should be .001 to .002" larger than the groove diameter so you can use slightly larger bore filling bullets.

There is always the thread constriction area of the bore to consider also. That is where the barrel is screwed into the frame. In my case, ruger didn't consider the thead constriction of .0015" to .0020" unusual. That much swagging down of a bullet is not the best for accuracy. The bullet gets reduced in diameter going through the constriction and can't swell back to the desired diameter. Lapping the constriction out is the best way to cure that problem, but not everyone is prepared to do that task.

I think your best choice would be to contact Ruger and find out if they consider the chambers at .311 to .312" out of specification. If they say yes, you can send the Ruger in for repair at Ruger's cost except for the shipping charges to Ruger. If Ruger considers the chambers within specification, There will be a substantial fee for the fix.

Good luck.

[missionary5155]

End of 1971 and through November 72 I was at Ft. Hood (2nd Armor). One of the TC´s had a Ruger in 30 carbine.. Our Armorer had "his head screwed on right" and gave us access to "his supply" of M1 30 Carbine ammo... thousands of rounds. We spent many fun filled hours roaming impact areas Jack Rabbit hunting. It seemed accurate enough and would sure tumble the bunnies.

[03lover]

Missionary5155,

It is very common for the Ruger Blackhawk in 30 Carbine to shoot quite well with jacketed bullets.

Jacketed bullets are far more forgiving when it comes to accuracy than lead. They hold the rifling well and stabilize quite well even though they may not be a perfect fit in the chambers or the bore. About all that happens if the fit isn't perfect is a little pressure and velocity is lost when the bullet is less than groove diameter or for that matter if the chamber throats are a bit large.

Lead has to fit well or accuracy is usually poor and leading can be a problem.

These Ruger Blackhawks are a joy to shoot.

[Buckshot]

..............Wally, usually if the chamber mouths are oversized the chamber can be also. The chambers and throats are cut with the same reamer. I have a BH in 30 carb and the barrel is .300x.308" and the chamber mouths are a tenth or so over. Maybe .3084". My chambers WILL (just barely) take a case loaded with a slug at .309". Or at least they were before being stuffed into the casemouth :-) Haven't shot the thing in eons.

To see what you can do, take a pair of sidecutters and cut the nose off 2 of those cast slugs. Put it in the ole benchvise and squeeze'm up a tad and drop them in a chamber of the loose cylinder. With about a 4" piece of 5/16 brass, aluminum, or hardwood dowel and the cylinder face down on a piece of 2x4, beat the dowel till you feel them come up solid.

Reverse the cylinder and with a smaller dowel, rod, or phillips screwdriver tap them back out of the chamber. You should have a rendition of the leade, throat and casemouth end of the chamber. Mike it to see what you have. Conversly you can also use the inside jaws of your calipers to check the casemouth ID on a fired case. Of course case springback may give a missleading reading on what you can really get in there, but you'll have an idea quickly.

.......................Buckshot

[Wally]

Has anybody tried the RCBS .30 Caliber 98 grain SWC bullet in the Ruger .30 M-1 carbine revolver? It shows a nominal size of .314" and may work well. I may try to trade my Lyman .30 Caliber 130 RN ( 311410) for one, if there are any takers?

[Wally]

Last weekend I got out with my Ruger .30 Carbine using the Lyman 130 RN (311410) bullet---one batch was sized to .309" the other pan lube & unsized. The load was 5.0 grains of W-231. As luck would have it I got to shoot in a dry, dusty, freshly disked field. Any bullet impact threw up a sizeable dust plume, so bullet strikes at long ranges were very easy to see. I set up two 20 ounce steel cans at 200~250 yards and shot at them using a rest. I soon learned That I had no flyers at all. I mentioned I did have them perviously, but this test proved it was the shooter not the bullets, the load, or the Ruger. I was so surprised as to how flat shooting this load was. Not much drop at all...in fact I used a few Magnum pistols that had far more drop than the .30 Carbine. Impacts were always very close to the tragets even with a gusty crosswind. I was most imprssed. Seems that sizing or not sizing made no diffrence whatsoever in this test. Yes, when I did go to retrieve the cans I did find some nice .30 caliber holes in them!

I then tried another experiment. I do very well with a .223 Remington using an RCBS 55 grain cast bullet and 8.0 grains of Unique. I had little problem hitting the cans with this load, most every shot...I then tried 20 without the gas checks--groups at that range could have been measured in yards--proving to me that those expensive copper disks are worth their high cost!