Paper Patching a round ball

[DCP]

How would someone paper patch a round ball for a bolt action rifle .311 to .314

Or anything other than a muzzle loader

Any pictures of a finished one

Thanks

[kir_kenix]

I've PP'd round balls, but never got enough out of the endevour to really take it too serious. I just wrapped onion paper around the ball, and put the trimmed "tail" in the case neck. Didn't notice any accuracy gain over non pp, but I didn't really experiment too greatly.

[303Guy]

I'm for trying out all sorts of ideas. Might I ask what it is you aim to achieve?

The first though that crossed my mind is to use the neck as a wad carrier and seat the ball with its 'equator' at the mouth. A little wax lube could hold the ball in place (or even form a 'cup' over the wad). Wouldn't this be a time to consider cloth patching? Cloth will take the shape of the ball better than paper.

Then there is another idea. That is to make a paper cup seat into which goes the wad with the ball on top of that and the whole thing seated into the unsized case neck. I've done this with 22 air rifle pellets in a hornet.

[DCP]

[QUOTE=303Guy;809626]I'm for trying out all sorts of ideas. Might I ask what it is you aim to achieve?

Wouldn't this be a time to consider cloth patching? Cloth will take the shape of the ball better than paper.
It may be


A gallery load or cat sneeze load

in
303
8mm
30-06
308
6.5x 55
223
7.62-x54

[1874Sharps]

Interesting. Please let us know how your experimentations go.

[Zeek]

I make quite a few paper patched round balls (PPRBs) for use in muzzleloaders. I use rather oversized balls, trim the pigtail when the PPatch is dry, then "size" them (pig-tail-end first) in a push-thru die made from a piece of the same barrel, thereby putting alternating land-grooves/groove-humps around their equator (makes them easier to load). You load them pig-tail first and they shoot just fine.

For a cartridge arm, you would need to extend the patch a bit further toward the front of the ball (the unpatched or faces-the-wind part) and then crease/crimp the folds down to fit the ball's forward curve. This would let you get the patch pinched into the leade cone (mandatory), but would work only on 25-20, 32-20, 30-30, 32 Special, 32-40, 38-55, 45-70, and other leade-cone-just-in-front-of-the-case-mouth chamberings.

You would have very poor performance, I'd guess, on any modern-throating-type chamberrng, for the patch could not get pinched between the ball and the leade cone upon chambering, which is necessary for "dragging-in" the rest of the patch. Given the large mass-to-patched-area ratio, I would expect these to have a speed limit (perhaps no more than 1500 fps or so?).

It IS doable, but so is gluing wings on a pig (ear plugs advised in either case). If a fellow had good reason for pursuing that option (PPRB's, not the winged porker), then it certainly would be feasible, but for older-style chamberings only.
Regards, Zeek

[DCP]

It IS doable, but so is gluing wings on a pig (ear plugs advised in either case). If a fellow had good reason for pursuing that option, then it certainly would be feasible, but for older-style chamberings only.
Regards, Zeek


Zeek

In the about 1920s they made Gallery Load or Cat sneeze loads in 7.62x54r and 6.5x55 swede and others
So you need to lets say 600 to 800 fps.
Just enough to reliabley get it out the barrel

http://guns.connect.fi/gow/arcane1.html

Finding balls the right size is not as easy or cheap as one might hope.
Paper patching would be so much more easier AND NO LEADING

I understand this can be done with out a lot of trouble

Someone I hope is already doing it

[Baron von Trollwhack]

There is data all over the place on the cat sneeze loads. Start searching.

The essence of it is with a 7,62 X 39 for example, start with a fired case that fits the chamber. No not size. You want a hard thumb push into the case neck of the lighter than normal oversized slug or round ball of soft material to obdurate the already expanded neck, foll the grooves, contain the pressure of the small, pistol powder charge, yet have a bit of accuracy at , say, 10 yards.

I worked 25-20 down to 1.5 grains of 700x, with a 75 grain soft lead lubed slug and still was getting almost a 22 lr pop. More work yet for me. Good luck. BvT

[RMulhern]

:killingpc:groner:[smilie=b::killingpc

[DCP]

:killingpc:groner:[smilie=b::killingpc


I just hate to wonder where your coming from.

But thanks for the Help (LOL)

[303Guy]

... yet have a bit of accuracy at , say, 10 yards. Forgive my optimism but I would hope for 50yd/m accuracy.


... the patch could not get pinched between the ball and the leade cone upon chambering, which is necessary for "dragging-in" the rest of the patch.I'm thinking (since I do aggree with Zeek) that the patched ball could be pinched between the case mout and the taper leading into the throat. Swaging of the ball would take place all the way into the rifling - I should hope - thereby achieving the same ends. And since the ball is round, there should be no problem of the projectile 'tilting' between case mout and rifling leade. Only one way to find out (well, apparently it's been done before so ... )!

That's RMulhern's sense of humour!:kidding: He is a very successful long range paper patch shooter so I tend to listen to what he has to say.;)

[Zeek]

:killingpc:groner:[smilie=b::killingpc

I hate to see a groan man whimper. I must have missed the joke, so groan some for me, while you're at it.
Zeek

[Zeek]

There is data all over the place on the cat sneeze loads. Start searching. . . .

I worked 25-20 down to 1.5 grains of 700x, with a 75 grain soft lead lubed slug and still was getting almost a 22 lr pop. More work yet for me. Good luck. BvT

Try that same combo, but substitute 1.0 grain of Vihtavouri N310. With a 22" barrel, you should get around 730 fps and a 19 Bar (274 psi) muzzle pressure, which is waaaaay low. The peak pressure is 4050 psi 0.61" into the travel. CBoos only need around a 1160 psi to overcome their starting friction, so this load should get out the muzzle reliably.

Beware that N310 . . . it is so quick that it makes most shotgun powders look like IMR-4227! Just 5.0 grains of N310 in that case/CBoo combo exceeds 45 Kpsi (= "a bit on the hot side").
Regards, Zeek