Size these 40's or send the mold back?

[yobohadi]

I just wanted to get some opinions on my new Lee 6 cavity 401 TL mold. It is dropping bullets at ~.405 X ~.404, they advertise these molds to cast, lube and shoot no sizing needed. Should I try to just lube and shoot these out of a .400 barrel to see how they do, size them to .401 (which from other threads I have read may pretty much wipe out the lube grooves), or send it back to Lee for another one?

Part of my dilemma of sending it back is it casts pretty good right out of the box, I didn't have to Lee-ment it or smoke the cavities after cleaning it and removing tiny shavings from the edges of the cavities.

Anyone care to chime in that have sent back their mold to get it closer to the shoot-as-cast size and actually got one back that did drop at the correct size?

Also, if I do just load some up will they be sized down a bit after run through the Lee factory crimp die and shoot fine?

[pdawg_shooter]

If a round loaded with this bullet unsized will feed and chamber than I would shoot as is. If they are a little tight for easy chambering size them as little as possible and go shooting.

[Hiaboo]

If it feeds, shoot it.

Slug your barrel then go about .02 over and then you're really good to go.

[JSimpson65]

Looks like Lee is pretty consistent:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=74833

At least a few of us seem to have basically the same sizing problem. I tried loading as-cast and it's a no-go in my Beretta 96. I have a .401 sizer on the way now. I still have this nagging feeling I should have just cut my losses and thrown the mold away, but it's a 6 holer and casts decently. Now I'm out the cost of the mold plus the cost of the sizer I shouldn't have needed. I'll have to size everything, which kind of defeats the purpose of tumble lube, and hope that .401 will shoot OK in the Beretta.

Maybe I should have just coated the hell out of it with that can of mold release I have no use for.

Thanks Lee!

[454PB]

Are you using a high percentage of antimony?

The less antimony, the smaller they cast.

[yobohadi]

Are you using a high percentage of antimony?

The less antimony, the smaller they cast.

I am just using wheel weights and heat treating them by dropping them in water. I don't think there is a high percentage of Antimony in those, maybe 3-4%?

[ghh3rd]

Rather than sizing all of the way down to .401 you might lap the sizing die just a tad to keep more of the lube rings intact.

[mpmarty]

I cannot SHOUT THIS LOUD ENOUGH!!!
Throw away that stupid LEE "factory Crimp Die". It will ruin more ammo than you can cast. It squeezes the brass and boolit down and then the brass springs back leaving the boolit loose in the case. An invitation to disaster.

[rb dave]

brass springs back but boolit remains too small and may lead terribly

[fatelk]

That link is to my thread, but I'll chime in anyhow.

My mold casts .405+, and I should have just sent it back, but the Lee guy said just size them and they should work fine. I went ahead and bought the .401 sizer and tumble lubed them both before and after sizing with the alox/jpw lube.

I don't like the fact that I have to size them, and it does wipe out a lot of the lube grooves, but they seem to shoot just fine. A fairly mild load shows no trace of leading whatsoever in a standard Glock 22 barrel.

[John Guedry]

Glad everything worked out OK.

[gefiltephish]

I cannot SHOUT THIS LOUD ENOUGH!!!
Throw away that stupid LEE "factory Crimp Die". It will ruin more ammo than you can cast. It squeezes the brass and boolit down and then the brass springs back leaving the boolit loose in the case. An invitation to disaster.

Alternatively, you can punch the carbide ring out of the bottom of the die. Probably better done if you've got a lathe to make a stepped punch to size. It takes more force than you might think. If you use a basic drift and at an angle, you just might bugger up the threads at the top of the die. Ask me how I know :wink:

[Recluse]

I have a .401 sizer on the way now. I still have this nagging feeling I should have just cut my losses and thrown the mold away, but it's a 6 holer and casts decently. Now I'm out the cost of the mold plus the cost of the sizer I shouldn't have needed. I'll have to size everything, which kind of defeats the purpose of tumble lube, and hope that .401 will shoot OK in the Beretta.

Maybe I should have just coated the hell out of it with that can of mold release I have no use for.

Thanks Lee!

You're out, what, maybe $50? That's half of what a four-banger mold from Lyman or someone else would've cost you--and then you'd still have to size and lube the boolits.

How much would 500 commerically cast bullets of unknown quality cost you? 500 plated bullets?

Sorry, but I don't get what you or some of the other folks new to casting are whining about.

For the record, the "whole purpose of tumble-lube boolits" is NOT to negate the need for sizing. Yes, there are instances in which you CAN load without sizing, but there are a lot of variables in casting that can affect the size of your boolit that the mold companies have zero control over--alloy composition and temperature come immediately to mind.

Lee does not say in their literature that you do not need to size--they say you may NOT NEED to size.

I have always sized every single boolit I have ever cast with zero exception. This way, I know they are 100% consistent in size and contour. A push-through sizer is inexpensive ($15--compared to ten times that much for a lubesizer), fast and easy to use.

I would not load up an unsized boolit anymore than I would try to load an unsized brass casing.

Just don't get the increasing trend of ******** by new casters who get their toys, take them straight out of the box and expect perfection on their first few outings. :rolleyes:

This is where craftsmanship and art meet science and technique. It's not exactly an overnight process. For any new casters expecting perfection right out of the box for much of anything, my advice is go back to buying commercially produced bullets.

:coffee:

[rockrat]

Give ya $35 shipped for it. They you can buy another

[Marlin Hunter]

If it feeds, shoot it.

Slug your barrel then go about .02 over and then you're really good to go.


Is that Metric or did you mean .002 over?

(.02mm = .0008")



To the original poster. DO NOT send the mold back. If you don't like it over-sized, sell it here or on ebay. An over-sized mold is more desirable than one that is exactly to size because you can always resize and over sized boolit but you can't make an under-sized boolit larger (you can't do it easily).

[Shiloh]

I run all my TL boolits through a LEE sizer. A 401 opened up to .4017 for that boolit and the 148 TLWC through a .3584 sizer..

Have you tried a higher lead alloy?? Try some pure or range scrap if you can get it.

I love the ease and convenience of the TL boolit series.

Shiloh

[Phat Man Mike]

why not try some of that mold drop out! it makes then cast smaller IMO?

[DLCTEX]

As far as the Lee FCD, it works for it's intended purpose, which really does not include oversize cast boolits. If you size your boolits to .001 over nominal groove size as I do with my 45ACP then the sizer part should not touch the loaded round when lowering the ram. If you have a bulged case due to overcrimping or problems with seating a bullet straight, then the die will insure the round will feed the case part of the round. If you want quality ammo you will stop when you feel the drag and correct the problem. If you are loading boolits larger than spec. Then you don't want to use the FCD as it will size the round, boolit and all, to factory specs. The die is not stupid, it is smart enough to do what it was intended to do. You have to be smart enough to use it correctly.

[qajaq59]

Send it back. Or at least give them a call and see what they will do for you. Obviously it isn't what you ordered and paid for.

[ebg3]

Hey bearloaf, I'm using a mould just like yours and the bullets cast to .403-.405 but I size them down with a .401 lyman sizer. They work fine in my SVI with no leading. I am not water dropping though, I'm using an alloy very similar to WW and just air-cooling them. I'm pushing them to 925-940 fps with a fast burning powder. I guess I've shot a little over 2500 of them so far with good results.
EG

[emorris]

Looks like Lee is pretty consistent:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=74833

At least a few of us seem to have basically the same sizing problem. I tried loading as-cast and it's a no-go in my Beretta 96. I have a .401 sizer on the way now. I still have this nagging feeling I should have just cut my losses and thrown the mold away, but it's a 6 holer and casts decently. Now I'm out the cost of the mold plus the cost of the sizer I shouldn't have needed. I'll have to size everything, which kind of defeats the purpose of tumble lube, and hope that .401 will shoot OK in the Beretta.

Maybe I should have just coated the hell out of it with that can of mold release I have no use for.

Thanks Lee!

try to sell them on ebay. not that i like ebay, but they usually sell for close to the price as new if not more

[yobohadi]

I made some dummy rounds, minus powder and primers, to see how they chambered. They chambered fine in my Glock 22 but don't chamber without getting stuck in my S&W M&P 40c. I pulled the bullets and found that the portion of the bullet inside the brass was sized down to ~.401 (depending on the thickness of the brass) by using the Lee Factory Crimp Die. Unfortunately the wad cutter part of the SWC bullet that stuck outside of the case mouth a small amount was still at .405.

I am thinking about setting the bullet further into the case where the wad cutter edge is flush with the edge of the case mouth which should size the whole bullet to .401ish using the Lee FCD. I will make a few more dummy rounds to test this.

To appease MPMARTY I spent some time trying to push the bullet into the case and was unsuccessful unless I used a mallet to hammer the bullet down further. Although it did seem to pull easier with an inertia bullet puller, but still took a pretty good whack to do so. The spring back that he warns about is an issue but I did notice that the brass had a slight bulge where the base of the bullet stops in the middle of the case, so to push it further down the brass has to expand which seems to take a decent amount of force so I am not too worried about using the Lee FCD in this instance. Now this may be due to the diameter of my sizing die, if yours is a larger diameter it may allow the bullet to be easily pushed down in the case causing an over pressure problem.

I will do some more tests and post my results.

[Recluse]

I spent some time trying to push the bullet into the case and was unsuccessful unless I used a mallet to hammer the bullet down further.

Speechless. [smilie=b:

:coffee:

[yobohadi]

Speechless. [smilie=b:

:coffee:

I don't really understand your response. I was just testing out the claims in post number 8 of this thread. His claim, while having some merit, did not leave the bullet loose in the case. the only way I was able to push the bullet further into the case was by tapping it in with a plastic mallet... I only did this with a dummy round, no powder, no primer. Maybe you can explain your speachlessness so that I know where I went wrong here.