Walker or Dragoon?

[Captain*Kirk]

If you had your d'ruthers.......
Would you go with a Uberti Colt's Dragoon, or the Uberti Walker Colt? Why or why not? I've found the two with about a $20.00 price difference....insignifigant, in other words......and I've always wanted both.
The only "con" with the Walker is the fact that the loading lever has no latch (as with the original) and will drop down under a heavy (60 gr) charge, locking the cylinder. In other words, annoying.
Which would (did) you buy....and why?

[docone31]

Had a Walker. My wife liked it. She used to hit the target at 100yds with 60gns load. She is a bit of a thing. Not much recoil, lots of smoke, same load as her .45 cap lock rifle.
I would go with the #1, or #3 Dragoon. Same charges, slightly different balance. Perhaps being slightly shorter makes it balance better.
I would go with the Dragoon.

[bob208]

i started with a walker got tired of the loading leaver. now i have second model dragoon it handles better. it only uses 50 gr. of 3f.

[northmn]

The Dragoons were improved Walkers, therefore I likely would go a Dragoon. The 50 grain charge limitation is likely an other improvement as I doubt that length barrel benefits much from a heavier charge.

Northmn

[Hellgate]

To repost an answer from 1997 CAS-L: " File a small notch in the business end of the latch spring so there is a
small "step" that engages the loading lever. (Frank Leaman suggested this
approach years ago.)
Tex, SASS #4"

Frank Leaman is a genius and card shark/magician. I've met him.
I've done this on both of my Uberti Walkers and neither has dropped a latch in about 5 matches I have shot them in since. The "step" is pretty touchy. If you make it too deep the latch won't come down at all and if there is too little step the fix won't work. The business end of the spring is rounded and you take a little off the upper end (toward the barrel) so when the spring snaps in place as the lever is lifted there is a more abrupt lip that it has to climb over for the rammer to come down. I bought an extra spring from Uberti before I got out the file.
Another suggestion is to lighten your loads to lessen recoil. If you insist on shooting heavy loads (50-55grs FFFg) if you are lucky all you will get is a crushed wedge that opens up the gap. You'll think your gun is really blasting but all you are getting is lost power blowing out the cylinder gap. New wedges will be in order. If you are unlucky, you will get the cylinder pin backing out of the frame or stretching of the wedge cutout. Lots of $$$ to fix. Drop the load down to 35-45grs.
Another way to reduce the recoil is to change to FFg powder. It is slower but has a smoother pressure peak.
A third suggestion is to hold the gun more firmly to prevent barrel lift from recoil. I'm not sure what effect that will actually have. If you DON'T grip the gun firmly the barrel tips right down due to the weight.
My Walker load is 44grs of FFg+lube wad+.454RB+grease on top. It's called a .44-44.
Hellgate

[Captain*Kirk]

This conversation is also being discussed in the wheelguns thread.....

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?p=809655&posted=1#post809655

[Uncle R.]

Choose between a Walker and a Dragoon?
Given those choices - hmmm - lemme think here...
<
Yep! I'd go with the 1860 Army.

[1874Sharps]

There is much good advice and info in the above posts. The Dragoon model was an improved Walker and there were reasons for the changes, as cited above. There is a definate "cool factor" in shooting and owning a Walker -- there is a connection historically to the Texas Rangers and Gus McCrae had one in Lonesome Dove. My CAS shooting buddy has one, too, that is no longer operable. It is a brass framed Walker that he shot a couple hundred full house loads in and the wedge pin became smooshed and the cylinder pin got stretched. If you get a Walker or Dragoon I think you would be much better served by getting a steel frame gun rather than a brass frame. To me, the feel and balance of the Dragoon is a bit better than the Walker, but I do not think you will go wrong with either model. For longevity of the firearm you might not want to shoot max loads that often (at least that is what I would do). A moderate, reduced load with a wad is not only a bit more pleasant to shoot but a bit easier on the gun.

[405]

The cool connection is mostly Texas Ranger so they surely have historic importance....not unlike the Paterson. But even the originals were not without problems. I think they burst a few chambers.... that's saying something about the basic design given blackpowder pressures and limited chamber space and bullet weight. The really cool ones are the originals but decent examples are topping 6 figures in collector value now :(

[dromia]

Loved my Walker 'cos it was a Walker, the first .44" Magnum.

The Dragoon was a better handling shooter, it was an improvement. I liked the attachable stock too.

So really depends on what you are looking for, both are great guns to shoot.

In fact you probably need at least one of each, then you can make your own mind up. :D

[Captain*Kirk]

Choose between a Walker and a Dragoon?
Given those choices - hmmm - lemme think here...
<
Yep! I'd go with the 1860 Army.

Well, as I mentioned in the wheelguns thread....I already have an 1860 Army, along with an 1858 Remington New Army and an 1851 Navy in .36.....so the big Horse Pistol (whichever I choose) will be the crown jewel of the collection.
I'd love to get both, as was suggested, but hey...one thing at a time![smilie=w:
What it boils down to at this point is choosing between the Walker and the 2nd Dragoon (preferably);


2nd Dragoon still incorporates the square-back trigger guard, which I like.



2nd Dragoon has squared-off cylinder notches, instead of ovals, and (hopefully) incorporates new-style flat mainspring with hammer wheel, and the little nubs between the nipples to lock the hammer down on (safeties)....Uberti model....I believe you can see them present in this picture:


http://www.uberti.com/firearms/images/1848_2nd_model_dragoon_lg.jpg


2nd Dragoon also has the loading lever latch up front, as opposed to the Walker's Mickey Mouse spring arrangement



Walker, of course, holds an extra 10gr of powder (60, to the Dragoon's 50) but seems to drop the loading lever each time you fire, with charges exceeding 50gr. This sounds like a total PITA and I'm not sure if I could live with that without getting aggravated.....

Walker weighs almost a half-pound more, with an extra 2" tacked onto the length.


So, it's a toss-up, but I think the Dragoon gets the nod at this point. Naturally, I'd go with a steel-frame Uberti (I've never even SEEN a brass frame Walker, and frankly, wouldn't want one). Never seen a brass frame Dragoon, for that matter. So, am I on the right track so far?

[Captain*Kirk]

The cool connection is mostly Texas Ranger so they surely have historic importance....not unlike the Paterson. But even the originals were not without problems. I think they burst a few chambers.... that's saying something about the basic design given blackpowder pressures and limited chamber space and bullet weight. The really cool ones are the originals but decent examples are topping 6 figures in collector value now :(

Some of my research includes some opinions that many of the burst chamber problems were linked to loading picket bullets upside-down in the chambers in the heat of battle....which makes sense, if you think about it. Other opinions suggest inferior steel being used for the cylinders.

That IS one hell of a gun......

http://www.uberti.com/firearms/images/1847_walker_lg.jpg

[jlchucker]

Back during my cap n' ball phase, I owned a Walker, 2nd Dragoon, and 3d Dragoon --copies that I bought from EMF. The Walker somehow ended up in the possession of my brother, who shot it well enough to win a couple of matches with it at his club. The two dragoons both required a higher front sight. Instead of point of aim, they shot pretty darned high at 25 yd. I saw no difference in the two dragoon copies, other than the 3d dragoon had a rounded trigger. It had been advertised as having a two-leaf rear sight, but came without one. One day I should probably get my Walker and paraphernalia back from my brother. The other two have long since been sold. My go-to cap n' ball has for years now been a Remmie copy in 44. I had my gunsmith shorten it to a 5 1/2 inch barrel before they were selling that version on the market. This one, also an EMF gun, has been used a great deal since I got it in the mid-1980's.

[jlchucker]

Back during my cap n' ball phase, I owned a Walker, 2nd Dragoon, and 3d Dragoon --copies that I bought from EMF. The Walker somehow ended up in the possession of my brother, who shot it well enough to win a couple of matches with it at his club. The two dragoons both required a higher front sight. Instead of point of aim, they shot pretty darned high at 25 yd. I saw no difference in the two dragoon copies, other than the 3d dragoon had a rounded trigger. It had been advertised as having a two-leaf rear sight, but came without one. One day I should probably get my Walker and paraphernalia back from my brother. The other two have long since been sold. My go-to cap n' ball has for years now been a Remmie copy in 44. I had my gunsmith shorten it to a 5 1/2 inch barrel before they were selling that version on the market. This one, also an EMF gun, has been used a great deal since I got it in the mid-1980's.

Oops! I meant to say rounded trigger GUARD! sorry about that.

[Captain*Kirk]

Oops! I meant to say rounded trigger GUARD! sorry about that.

.....and I knew exactly what you were thinking.:wink:

[Pistolero]

I have a 3rd model Dragoon and want a Uberti Walker 9' inch next. The Dragoon drops the lever down too - with anything but the smallest loads.

The solution is simple: wrap a rubber band around the barrel and lever befoe you cap it. Then load as heavy as you like and the lever stays where it is.

Don't tell me the o'l gunfighters didn't improvise something similar. Doesn't look great but it works.

[blackpowder man]

I had a navy arms walker about 20 years ago and shot 60 grains of goex 3f out of it and developed a bulge in the barrel above the wedge pin. Noticed poi started shifting to the right or left and got to looking at it and sure enough it was bending. Sent it back a little dirty cause I was frustrated and they put on a new barrel and wedge and maybe a new clinder pin, but sent the rest back still dirty and starting to rust. Maybe I shouldn't be so sensitive, but I sold it and haven't purchased another navy product. I've heard good things about Uberti. Also, at friendship they made you shoot with 1 hand for score and 4 and a half pounds at 17 inches or whatever it is can be a bit unwieldy.
the loading lever did also drop a lot. The improvements on the dragoon probably make it a better gun to live with, but some might say the same about brass cartridges as well. And what would they know?

[missionary5155]

Good morning
I always thought the Walker handle drop was solved years ago (100+ )with a leather strip tied around the barrel with the knot under the loading lever.
But for shooting happiness I leave them both home and take my Ruger Old Army out. If I want raw power a cylinder full of Pyrodex P & a 45 RB will match a Walker and I do not have to wonder IF anything will break.

[Captain*Kirk]

Good morning
I always thought the Walker handle drop was solved years ago (100+ )with a leather strip tied around the barrel with the knot under the loading lever.
But for shooting happiness I leave them both home and take my Ruger Old Army out. If I want raw power a cylinder full of Pyrodex P & a 45 RB will match a Walker and I do not have to wonder IF anything will break.

It was...you are correct. But the thought of shooting with a leather band around the barrel seems overly cheesy to me, and is something I'd rather avoid. The thought of "modding" a brand new firearm seems equally futile, I believe I'll take a chance on the Dragoon with at least some rudimentary form of loading lever latch......

[Captain*Kirk]

.....It's been two weeks and the jones has not left. At this rate, by the time I've got the $$ tucked away, I'll still want it. And you know what that means.....:Fire:

[missionary5155]

Good morning Captain
Well you will not go wrong with a Dragoon ! I bought one of the Colts (reruns) some time ago used and they are fun to have. Big heavy and when you cut loose with it those pounds melt away for that brief second.
And the leather strap on the Walker... that is know as Field Expedience ... The Army does not allow a lowly trooper to modify anything. Only Ordanace could properly Modify.

[Captain*Kirk]

Good morning Captain
Well you will not go wrong with a Dragoon ! I bought one of the Colts (reruns) some time ago used and they are fun to have. Big heavy and when you cut loose with it those pounds melt away for that brief second.
And the leather strap on the Walker... that is know as Field Expedience ... The Army does not allow a lowly trooper to modify anything. Only Ordanace could properly Modify.

Well, that's rather following my line of thinking as well. Besides, I can always buy the Walker later, if I really, really, still want one...right?
As for modifications; well...this lowly trooper may be in trouble, if that's the case!

[dominicfortune00]

In the movie, 'The Outlaw Josie Wales'; Clint Eastwood carried two Walkers.

IIRC, he also carried a pair of Colt Paterson pistols.

[Captain*Kirk]

In the movie, 'The Outlaw Josie Wales'; Clint Eastwood carried two Walkers.

IIRC, he also carried a pair of Colt Paterson pistols.

You sure they were Walkers? It's been a while, don't recollect for sure...

[DwarvenChef]

I really like my walker, but it's a CVA and has some issues with fit and finish...

I have been using hot loads in it for a while and really like it's power. I haven't gotten a Dragoon yet so I can say as to whether a 5gr difference in capacity is all that different.

[dominicfortune00]

You sure they were Walkers? It's been a while, don't recollect for sure...

Yep, I'm pretty sure.

That scene near the end when he corners the redleg officer and walks up to him dry firing his main pistols, and then his backup pistols you get pretty good veiws of the pistols he is using.

Saw it a week or two ago and noticed he was using Walkers in that scene.

[DwarvenChef]

Have to watch that one again :) (oh darn)