New and economic gas-check

[speedy]

Hello to everyone,

if possible, I would to know your opinion about a new kind of patented gas-check named FireCut.

Firecut is a gas-check that can be assembled directly inside the bullets mold. Due to used materials and assembly method the cost of gas-check is reduced from 80% to 60% then traditional one.

This new solution has been tested in several pistols and revolvers, at maximum powder load and like the traditional solution, this gas-check guarantee very good performances.

You can see some images here (is an italian site, pls use an automatic translator): www.firecutweb.com

What is your authoritative opinion ?

Thanks & regards,
Speedy.

[imashooter2]

I think fiddling around trying to insert small parts into a hot mold is something very, very few people are going to be interested in.

[Wally]

Yes, that'd be a problem, Also, one has to have the correct sized discs that are probably made of copper--what will they cost? If the disc are a bit too large, then they will not fit squarely on the bullet base. However it is a most innovative concept--I like the idea that one can adjust the length of the bullet.

[speedy]

Yes, that'd be a problem, Also, one has to have the correct sized discs that are probably made of copper--what will they cost? If the disc are a bit too large, then they will not fit squarely on the bullet base. However it is a most innovative concept--I like the idea that one can adjust the length of the bullet.

... copper on non metallic support, cost should be around 0.8 cents for each

[Wally]

Yes, they should be 0.8¢ but as with anything else once you buy one the price will invariably increase--why? Because there will be but one supplier...

[edsmith]

they did some thing simular during the civil war.

[speedy]

Yes, they should be 0.8¢ but as with anything else once you buy one the price will invariably increase--why? Because there will be but one supplier...

Just to be clear, I'm not a manufacturer.
0.8¢ is the estimated cost for an industrial production.

[oldhickory]

they did some thing simular during the civil war.

You may be thinking of the Williams cleaner bullet. A Minie with a zink disc and stem running up through the base of the bullet, the idea was it would scrape the fouling out of the bore and keep it clean if used every so-many shots, (the number escapes me at the moment).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Williams_cleaner_bullet

http://www.shilohrelics.com/cgi-bin/Display_Items.asp?Cat=126&Sub=428

[Wally]

Just to be clear, I'm not a manufacturer.
0.8¢ is the estimated cost for an industrial production.

Retail price would then be 5~10¢ each--or more than a Hornady gas check..

[wallenba]

I think fiddling around trying to insert small parts into a hot mold is something very, very few people are going to be interested in.

That was my thinking too imashooter2, before I finished reading about them. The Italians must know something we don't if they are willing to do it.

[speedy]

... maybe for a manual molding, maybe not for an automated process

[Fat-beeman]

I for one not that dumb to put that little cup in hot mold. it also might be a scam too.
Don

[docone31]

I have seen all sorts of things tried.
It should work, although it is a bit tricky.
My favourite, and I might try it one day, is a wire coil that goes into the mold in place of lube lands. Almost a swaged bullet, except it is cast. It could be swaged to size though.
I guess the fun would be putting the check into the mold while hot.

[rbuck351]

Those would work on a nose pour mold but I might have a little trouble getting the lead in the mold on a bottom pour. The mold looks a little expensive too and even more so in a multi cav.

[speedy]

Probably I need to clarify that this patented gas-check has been developped for industrial production (not home made bullets). First target is to obtain good margins for manufacturer and cheap price for consumers, with same effectivness then standard solution.

A cheap gas-check can merge the advantages of copper clad bullets in terms of barrel lead residues/muzzle speed and lead alloy bullets in terms of precision and price.

[imashooter2]

In that case, I think fiddling around trying to insert small parts into multiple cavity molds on a commercial machine is something very, very, VERY few commercial casters are going to be interested in.

[Flinchrock]

In that case, I think fiddling around trying to insert small parts into multiple cavity molds on a commercial machine is something very, very, VERY few commercial casters are going to be interested in.

I have a sneaky suspicion that you are right.

[rbuck351]

Well lets look at this another way. Those on this forum won't buy them cause we cast our own and GC if we see fit and I see no advantage of this over a normal gas check. And ,those of us that are really cheap (ME), make our own GCs. I'm so cheap I even make my own GC making tools and use aluminum sheeting or pop cans for check material. Now, if you can sell those itty bitty 22s for less than $.02 each, I'll take a few thousand. Yes, I am cheap!!!

[1874Sharps]

Speedy,

I mean no ill, but it seems to me you have a vested interest in this product. Are you in some way connected to the marketing of this?

[speedy]

Speedy,

I mean no ill, but it seems to me you have a vested interest in this product. Are you in some way connected to the marketing of this?

The patent is mine, for this reason I asked your opinions on first post... in any case I'm not in business, I have nothing to sell.

I Just try to know if there are possibilities for an industrial application (probably few !)

[Willbird]

I have seen all sorts of things tried.
It should work, although it is a bit tricky.
My favourite, and I might try it one day, is a wire coil that goes into the mold in place of lube lands. Almost a swaged bullet, except it is cast. It could be swaged to size though.
I guess the fun would be putting the check into the mold while hot.

Actually there were bullets made that had a wire jacket wrapped onto them, they used a type of copper wire that had cotton insulation, I think I read about them in the Phil Sharpe book.

Bill

[jdgabbard]

Well, sir. I think you had a neat idea, but you're going to have an extremely hard time swaying the opinions of the folks here. There are a couple of molds out there that tried the "cast with the check in place" method. It was quite a bit of a pain, and you don't really see them used anymore.

As mentioned before, it'd be a PITA, and to top that off we'd still have to buy checks. While those that are using quite a few are looking at purchasing check makers or already own them. Not to mention on the website when I looked it said these were not made of copper but something else...I believe it said that... I've always thought of copper as a scrapper for the bore. I don't know if this will perform the same function. Rather it looks to be for the "fear" of hot gas on the base. Which isn't going to get hot enough and stay hot enough to melt, in mine and many many other's opinions.

I just don't see the need for something like this. But what do I know....

[dromia]

Seems to be made from a non metalic laminate.

"Alloy warheads with gas-check too expensive? Maintaining the same functional effect, killed in less than 1 / 3 the cost of gas-check and offered competitive prices to your customers ... Weapons & Tools features: Gas-check patented laminate non-metallic gas-check the patent and named FIRECUT ™, was not carried out starting from strips or metal plates, as well as traditional gas-check, but using non-metal laminates. The soul of the laminate is made of special resins in some cases armed with fibers of various kinds. The cost of gas-check carried out with the system FIRECUT ™, is estimated between 1 / 5 and 1 / 3 the cost of gas-check in copper. Floppy disks can be obtained (preferably but not necessarily) by cutting, milling or punching from the sheet of laminate. The new gas-check performs the main tasks of protection of the base of the projectile by the explosion and blaze of scraping the lining, allowing you to achieve efficacy comparable or superior to that offered by traditional solutions. As known, in the assembly of the traditional gas-check, we proceed to crimp their bullets on the basis of specific profile. The gas-check made laminate, may be simply positioned at the base of the mold (inverted type) that will achieve by casting the ball, then mold that has the advantage of being usable even for balls without gas-check. Positioning the ball inside the mold FIRECUT ™ In contact with molten alloy introduced into the mold to about 300 ° C, the surface layer of special FIRECUT ™ andr to merge, creating the welding of the diskette to the projectile in the subsequent solidification by cooling. The resistance to high temperature laminates chosen, respect the tenacity of adhesion of the gas-check and preserves the laminate itself. Lancet applied with a gas-check FIRECUT ™ The integrated application of FIRECUT ™ during the molding process and the implementation thereof by the laminates described allow the creation and production costs significantly lower than equality of functional efficacy. The prototypes tested are able to maintain surprisingly faint tendency all'impiombamento and effectively cover all the typical features of a traditional gas-check, so that FIRECUT ™, can be considered a valuable new alternative to expensive metal gas-check. The system FIRECUT ™, allows us to offer competitive prices to customers which, combined with an attractive increase in profit margins, enabling a rapid depreciation of the limited investment in the development of a pilot line. For more details on the construction process and the license to the patent, you can write an e-mail or fill out the form below. "

[3006guns]

Re: wire wrapped boolit.......that would be the old National. They supplied a wire coil that looks very much like a Heli-coil insert. You dropped the coil into the mold, swung the sprue plate closed and poured. Didn't have any provision for a check on the base if I remember correctly.

[Old Coot]

Or you could just put a fiber wad between the bullet and the powder.

[Flash]

This reminds me of the Wilke gas check from back in the 70's. The check had a hole in it and the lead poured through it. Tweasers were used to load the checks in the mould. Too cumbersome and slow.

[trevj]

Hello to everyone,

if possible, I would to know your opinion about a new kind of patented gas-check named FireCut.

/\/\/\/\/\/\/

What is your authoritative opinion ?

Thanks & regards,
Speedy.

Don't tie up your life's savings in promoting it!

For one, the basic idea of a plate or washer on the butt end of a bullet has been done again and again over the years. That's not a new idea, and the makers of them didn't convince enough folks of it's value, to still be doing them as a product.
Even if it was not Patented, it still represents "Prior Art" if I have my terminology correct, meaning that it is not an original or unique idea.

So that pretty much leaves a patent for the use of whatever materials are used, for this novel application. Unless you wish to go broke defending the Patent in court, or get lucky enough to sucker someone into a contract that requires that they defend the Patent, it is pretty much of no value whatsoever.

In short, it does not look like much of a success from here.

Cheers
Trev

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

Sorry, but I pay less than 2 cents for my gas checks...and I don't have to worry about fumbling around with gas checks and a hot mold. The idea is a very neat idea, but not practical for the home caster. Maybe with automated casting machines it would be efficient. Good luck!

[Recluse]

The patent is mine, for this reason I asked your opinions on first post... in any case I'm not in business, I have nothing to sell.

I Just try to know if there are possibilities for an industrial application (probably few !)

Speedy,

I salute your ideas and your coming to the right place to do some initial market-launch research. This is THE pinnacle and premier forum in the world for lead bullet casting, loading and shooing.

This is where THE experts, the trendsetters, the explorers as well as many original product inventors like yourself reside in the cast bullet world.

But with all that said, I personally have zero interest in such a concept, and for the following reasons:

1. Cost--too expensive. Almost all of us here got into casting to save money (even though we now stay in it so that we can cast, load and shoot MORE boolits for the same money).

2. The "nebulous factor." As others have stated, messing around with a hot mold trying to insert something is nobody's idea of fun.

3. Intangibles. I cast my own rifle boolits and install my own gas checks. Not all rifle boolits get a gas check depending on how I load them. Pistol rounds? Only boolit I use that needs a gas check is for the .44 Magnum, and I just don't cast and load very many of those in any given year--probably less than 100 for that particular boolit.

Overall, though, your thought process is impressive. Again, I salute anyone who puts their mind to new ideas and solutions or opportunities as they pertain to the world of guns, reloading and casting.

Thanks for sharing your idea and thoughts with us.

:coffee:

[Treetop]

Anyone else remember the old Harvey Pro-X-Bore molds that took a zinc washer near the boolit base? I never owned one but they were popular back in the late 50s. IIRC, they were only available in .357 and .44.

[speedy]

Speedy,

Overall, though, your thought process is impressive. Again, I salute anyone who puts their mind to new ideas and solutions or opportunities as they pertain to the world of guns, reloading and casting.

Thanks for sharing your idea and thoughts with us.

:coffee:

Thank you to you Recluse and thanks to all of you for shared opinions... now I have a larger scenario

Ciao,
Speedy.