9.3x72R

[cr17]

Hi I've just been given an opportunity to buy a 9.3x72R Drilling with the Lyman 366408 mould. I know very little about this calibre and wonder if anyone has any pet loads with this mould.

[Cheshire Dave]

I have some info from when I was looking at drillings. This is not first hand I just saved it. Be careful. The 9.3 is a low ppressure round about as powerfull as a 35 Rem. The 9.3x74 is much more powerfull. If interested PM me a email and I'll send more. I know they aren't for your cast bullet but might be helpful. I don't think you can go wrong with 3031.

These are from “The Accurate Rifle” magazine, issue vol6 #9, Oct. 2003.

Powder Charge Bullet Velocity Group Size
IMR 3031 41.0gr RWS 200gr N/A 1”
N-201 44.5gr RWS 200gr N/A 1”
N-201 45.5gr RWS 200gr N/A 1 3/16”
IMR 3031 32.0gr Speer 250 1964 1 ¼”
IMR 3031 30.0gr Cast 251 F.N. N/A 2 ¾”
IMR 3031 39.0gr RWS 200 2227 3 1/8”
H-4895 39.0gr RWS 200 2165 2 5/8”
IMR 4064 40.0 RWS 200 2227 3 1/8”
IMR 3031 35.0gr Norma 232 1839 2 ¾”
IMR 3031 38.0gr Speer 250 2073 2 7/8”
H-4895 38.0gr Speer 250 2047 2 5/8”
IMR 4064 40.0gr Speer 250 2094 2”
IMR 3031 34.0gr Speer 270 1873 3”
H-4895 35.0gr Speer 270 1746 2 1/8”
IMR 4064 37.0gr Speer 270 1861 2”
IMR 3031 29.0gr Norma 286 1525 2 3/8”
H-4895 33.0gr Norma 286 1742 3 3/8”
IMR 4064 34.0gr Norma 286 1704 2 3/8”
IMR 3031 36.0gr RWS 200 2010 1 ½”
H-4895 34.0gr RWS 200 1976 1 ¼”
IMR 4895 36.0gr RWS 200 1865 2 3/8”
IMR 4064 38.0gr RWS 200 2771 5/8
”

[Hubertus]

cr17, that’s going to be an interesting project.
If you don’t mind, do you have some details about the Drilling like manufacturer, the year of manufacture and the lock system? Did you already have the chance to take it into your own hands? Would be nice to see some pics, too. There is an easy test to find out whether it is still tight or needs some work (most probably you know this already). If the Drilling has the opening lever on the tang (there are under lever systems too) first thing to look for is to break it open and then close it without touching the opening lever. If the opening lever is not fully going to middle position but staying a little to the side that is a good sign. Check the load status (obvious); when empty close the gun remove the forearm of the stock by lifting the latch rest the butt of the Drilling on your thigh and take a double hand grip around the tang behind the trigger guard, like you would want to strangle it. Then move your arms and hands back and forth quickly – “shaking” the gun. If you feel the barrel wiggle back and forth the system is not so tight anymore you may want to have a gunsmith have a look at it. But again you may know this already.

About the cartridge: It is a member of a cartridge family developed in the 1890ies in Germany. The mother cartridge was the now forgotten 9,3x82RTeutsch. Several shorter versions were available down to 9,3x48R among them the 9,3x72R which is the only one that survived until today. These days factory ammunition can still be bought. The cartridge was very well liked and spread among the foresters (forest rangers) of the time. The German nickname “Foersterpatrone” (Forester cartridge) goes back to this.
Originally it was developed and designed for the use of Black Powder. But after the turn of the century it was normalized and as well loaded with smokeless. Several original factory loadings had been available.
Prior to 1945 factory ammunition loaded with 3,2 gram BP (~49.4 grains) and a 14,7 gram (227 grain) lead projectile was available with a muzzle velocity of around 1450 fps.
Subsequent factory ammunition was available with 12,5 gram (193 grain) and 13 gram (200 grain) copper jacketed bullets. The former as FP the latter as SP with about 2010 fps and the 200 grain with 2250 fps all loaded with R5 powder. The 200 grain loading was supposed to be a +P as we would call it today and only for suitable rifles it was known as the “Dornheim-Patrone” (Dornheim cartridge). The intent was a usage for bigger game.

The 9,3x72R is not as powerful as the 9,3x74R as written by Cheshire Dave ealready. One has to be very careful not to overload it especially with the break open design and the possible age of a fine Drilling. The CIP max pressure is set to 2000 bar (29000 PSI). I know in the US you are not bound by this but it usually gives a good direction. It is a very good deer cartridge for distances out to 120 meters.

The nominal bullet diameter is .364” so your .366” should be fine. You will most probably slug the bore anyway. By the way what caliber are the shotgun barrels? I suppose 16 GA. That was quite a standard chambering.

I do have some loads from a German load book with the powders like N540, N140, SR4759, IMR3031, N550 as well as a single load with sporting black powder No1 (ffg).

Let me know whether you are interested.
Best regards,
Hubertus

[PFJC]

Just found this thread while looking for information about my 8.7x72R Drilling.
It is a Hubertus under lever gun 16x16x8.7x72R, made about 1920 and Nitro proofed.
I just made some cases for it this afternoon from 9.3x72R RWS brass.
The case is basically the same as the 9.3x72R except has slightly more taper and user a smaller diameter bullet. The bore measures .356.
I have had this gun for many years and just last week fired it for the first time.
I used .357 160 grain bullets and 9 grains of Unique powder.
Am interested in what the original load was for this gun.
Paul

[Hubertus]

PFJC, that is an interesting critter you have there. I read about it once but looking into the C.I.P tables left me puzzled – it looks like it is not standardized.
When you say the “bore” measures .356” do you really mean the bore or rather the groove diameter? Looking at the data of the 9x57R this would be rather the groove diameter.

I was able to find data for 7x72R and 8x72R. But it really looks you have a 9x72R aka 8,7x72/.360 there, since the original designation of the 8x72R was 8,1x72/.360 showing that this cartridge was developed from the .360 Express like many others.
One of my friends has an old ammunition catalogue and he promised he will have a look as soon as time permits.

The original loadings of the 8x72R are between 11,5 gram (178 grains) hard lead bullet, 12,7 gram (196 grains) JFP and 13,4 gram (207 grains) Brenneke TIG.
The velocities for the 12,7 and the 13,4 gram with 665 m/s (2181fps) and 700 m/s (2296fps).

Hubertus

[PFJC]

Hubertus,
The barrel slugs .356 groove to groove and I used 162 grain .357 cast bullets.
The barrel is clearly marked 8.7x72R and is Nitro proofed.
A 9.3x72R case, neck sized with a .357 Magnum die, and with about .003 Inch more taper added to the forward part of it fits. The 72mm. length is correct.
This has been an interesting challenge.
Thanks for your help.
Paul

[sojerguy]

PFJC & CR17.

Thought you might like some of my actual experiences in shooting one of these wonderful rifles.

Waaaay back in 2000, I ran across one in 16x16x9.3x72r. Nicely done with some privately made up claw scope mounts.

The 9.3 was used with some Liberty cast bullets (215 gr round nose I think - a now defunct company). Velocity was around 2100 fps.

Accuracy. The horizontal stringing was about 3/4" at 100 yards off a bench. Nice and tight. Vertical stringing? Well as the 2x 16 guage barrels acted as 'heat sinks', the lower half of the 9.3 barrel lenghtened while the upper didn't, giving me 3" higher bullet strike on target with the second shot, 6" with the 3rd, 9+" with the fourth .... Fantastic if the deer runs away from you in a straight line. Very reproducable. Time after time. Slow fire, quick fire, no matter.

Now off hand. 2 1/4 inch groups at 100 yards. The rifle did account for 2 NW blacktail over the 2 years I had it. A nice light, woods-kicking easy-carry rifle with 3 shots. 3? Well .... I carried 1x 16 gauge buckshot, 1x 16 guage slug, and 1x 9.3x72r loaded.

Worked for me.

Time and interests moved the rifle on.

[Hubertus]

Sojerguy, good on you - that is definitely on my to do list. The problem is that there are always other projects in the way. But I promise when I get upon a decent 9,3x72R for a reasonable price it will be all mine.

PFJC, that is really interesting and don't you love it when a plan works out.
How does it shoot? The phenomenon that sojerguy described goes by the German term "Klettern" (climbing) that is common to all fixed multibarrel combination guns. With the newer Drillings and Over/Unders the barrels are not soldered together to prevent this.
Well in terms of help I wasn't a great help so far because I didn't find anything of much use. If you ever want to develop hunting loads I would go the 9,3x72R route meaning to follow the loading recommendations of that because the max pressure is set lower than for the 8x72R. Given, of course, you find heavier boolits, plus I would reduce the load by 3% due to the lower case volume. I couldn't let this rest and called the Merkel company yesterday, they gave me a number of a conservator of the Hunting Weapons Museum located in Suhl. Called him up today and he told me he might be able to find something but would need more info. There must be some more stampings around the underlever and the Bascule and under the barrels. If you could white them with chalk and make a photo to send to me I will forward it and we'll see what he can find out.
He told me usually the barrel maker would have had a marking, too. The stampings of the proofhouse are important, as well. So whatever markings make a photo and send it. You can contact via PM and I will give you my email address, in case you are interested.

The same goes for cr17, actually I have scanned the load data for the 9,3x72R, just need an email to send to - don't want to put it on the forum because of copy rights.


Hubertus

[PFJC]

Didn't check for accuracy, too much snow and ice to set up targets. Just fired downrange to check functioning.
Hubertus, I just sent you a PM with my email. Forgot to tell you I slugged the barrel again.
Bore diameter is .346 and groove diameter is 356.
Paul

[Hubertus]

PFJC, email sent.

Hubertus

[cr17]

Hubertus : PM sent,.

Here are some photos of the drilling.

http://s810.photobucket.com/albums/zz29/sct_photo/?newest=1

Any info would be greatly appreciated.

[AkMike]

Hubertus,
I also have a rifle this cailiber but mine had Black Powder Austrian Proof marks. Do you have any SAFE loads for a BP proofed rifle, hopefully using an IMR powder. I'm currently working up using 30 grns of IMR 3031. Way slow but being safe bwith the old girl.

[Hubertus]

Currently I am travelling for work. I will be back Friday or Saturday.

As soon as I am home I will have a look for the data, AkMike, but to my knowledge there is not much about BP save SP loads in my books, but still I will have a look and let you know.

cr17 and PJFC - I will try to get the info and get back to you.

Best
Hubertus

[Hubertus]

AkMike,

I had a look into my books and there is not much, unfortunately.
Do you have access to BP or BP substitute?
That might be the way to go - I know it sounds cheesy but I would feel better shooting BP in a rifle made for BP loads. That way you can be sure you are not overstressing it.

The CIP specs for Nitro proofed rifles list 2000 bar or 29000 PSI as max pressure.
That is definitely to hot for an old BP proofed rifle.
My tables list a BP load with ffg yielding a pressure of 1056 bar or 15316 PSI with a 193 grain jacketed bullet. It would be interesting to know what boolit or boolits you intent to shoot out of your DR, which is by the way a real beauty.
The 9,3x72R is comparable to the .38-55 but has a higher case volume.
Lyman 48th says with a 249gr #2 Alloy Lyman #375248 boolit you will have 17000 CUP in the .38-55 with 31 grains of IMR3031.
Given the higher case volume of the 9,3 and depending on your boolit weight that would be the hottest I would go (comparing it to the ffg load of my load book). So with your 30 grains (given the same boolit weight) you are right on the spot.

Again this is not proven data just making conclusions from available data with BP in the 9,3x72R in comparison to data of the .38-55!
I will ask some friends that might have older German load books.

Use caution and common sense as always when venturing into new loadings.
If I were in your shoes and had BP on hand I would use that.

Hope that helps,
Hubertus

[AkMike]

Every little bit is a great help Hubertus! Reliable information is hard to get on this side of the pond about the older Euro calibers.
I have another one similat that is the same caliber BUT the case appears to be a 2 step taper and not the straight one of the 'newer' standardized 9.3X72R.

Danka!

[Hubertus]

Sorry guys it might take a while to get the info. :-?

AkMike, as you describe it that should be a 9,3x72R S&S (S&S stands for Sauer & Sohn). I don't have any load data for that but the general consensus is that is up to the same fodder as the 9,3x72R. Please use caution as always! If it is BP proofed stay in the pressure limits.

I'll let you know when I get data and info.

Hubertus

[AkMike]

The few factory rounds I have will not chamber. They lack about 3/8 of an inch of seating completely. None of my new resized brass will fit. I suspect that there is a very old cartridge that had a 2 step taper for the sides. There were alot of old 'wildcats', propriatary rounds made by the shops for their rifles.

[AkMike]

I looked up the S&S 9.3X72R and this is not the cartridge. It has a bigger rim and base than what I have. This appears to be the same measurments as the standard X72 with a change in the straight taper of the sides.
I'd guess it was a 'wildcat' properitary round made by the smith. I think I read that there was a meeting around 1906 to standardize the measurements of the rounds.

[cr17]

Mike - any chance of a photo? I have the DWM guide and may be able to find a match - or a photo of the markings on the underside of the barrels? Sometimes they will have valuable clues. Other than that I highly recommend the guys over on the doubleguns forum, a wealth of knowledge on the doubles there.

[AkMike]

Does this DWM list show the measurements? I've seen one that gave the DWM number for the cartridge only.
The rifle is marked on the top rib, M. Ogris in Ferlach.
on the RH tube it shows 9.3 854
On the LH tube it shows a faint circle with a X with 9.3 and 468
On the bottom rib it shows 6334.01.3.85
At the bottom of the breech under the chambers it sows 99901.01 It seems to have a double stamp on the second 9. They are very close together. Then there are the proof marks.
Nothing on the watertable or under the forearm. This is a very high quality rifle with both triggers able to set triggers.
I'll try to find my camera for some pics but I doubt the quality.
It also has some very unsual QD scope base mounts with the rear looking similar to the shape of a lyre harp. Alas nothing for the scope or rings.

[AkMike]

I just checked and the fresh sized brass lacks .170" from fully seating. Yet the chamber shows the full length of 2.83" that the brass has.
I think that simply reaming the chambers out will clean up the tight spot and let me shoot it.

[AkMike]

Here are some pics of the rifle.

[AkMike]

A call to 4D Reamer Rentals today confirmed that they have seen this 2 taper chamber before. They said that it's a quick easy clean up with a hand reamer. Needless to say it's on the way! :D
It'll be nice to get this old girl shooting after several years of me owning it and who knows when the last time it was shot . From looking at the numbers on it, I'd say it was built in 1901. Right?

[Cheshire Dave]

That is a beauty. I can see I would need a bib when looking over your gun collection.
Let us know how the old girl shoots.

[AkMike]

Just an update/FYI for Hubertus and who ever else might stumble on this someday. After talking to Dave at CH4D dies down in Ohio today he said that this mystery chambering I had was probably a 9.3X72/360. From the rim forward there is a different taper for uaround 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch then a straight taper to the end. Possible this is for a very old version that was a coiled / foil cartridge.
I rechambered it to the standard version so as far as I'm concerned... Case closed!

[Hubertus]

AkMike,

Thanks for the update - this is interesting to know.
Did you already have the chance to shoot it with the new chambering?

As for the info on CR17's and PFJC's Drilling I am still waiting for the reply of the Gentleman with the Museum. I suppose he is really busy since he is the only authority they have in this regard. I will keep you posted.

Hubertus

[Hubertus]

PFJC and cr17 I got the answer from the conservator. He is taking it very serious; of course it’s his job and passion. He works at the museum, Suhl.

I will put your pics in the thread to make it easier to understand and read for the others. The description is formal and it is a translation of the actual mail I received (well as close as I could translate it).

OK, are you ready? :bigsmyl2:

PFJC’s Drilling:

http://i823.photobucket.com/albums/zz157/Hubertus_album/Drilling/DrillingPFJC.jpg

“…The weapon presented via photographs is a Hammerless Drilling with Roux breech, manufactured by the company Meffert at Suhl around 1913. Unfortunately it was refurbished but not according to it’s age/manufacturing time. (Attached 2 photos of the original catalogue).

http://i823.photobucket.com/albums/zz157/Hubertus_album/Drilling/DSC00758.jpg
http://i823.photobucket.com/albums/zz157/Hubertus_album/Drilling/DSC00759.jpg

Justification:
The Stock is reconditioned and the fitting at the bascule was changed, the Form of the forearm does not fit into manufacturing time but fits present time.

It is a good contemporary witness and of course nice rifle, but not a special collector item.
The insurable value is about 400 Euro (Hubertus: currently $544).

Markings:

TREFF Model
8,7x72 Bore diameter, following old proof law of 1891 the caliber is 9.3x72R
First proof shot with 7.5 gram powder and 22.9 gram bullet
Second proof shot with 5.0 gram powder and 22.9 gram bullet
Last proof shot/Normal loading 2.5 gram powder and 17.2 gram bullet

16 in circle caliber of shotgun barrels the actual caliber is 16/65
Full chokes

Crown eagle W proof shot of chokes
G proof shot rifle barrel
S proof shot shotgun barrels
U Testshot

KmG 12g stands for copper jacketed bullet 12 grams
Steel type is low-carbon steel brand Wittner
NTRO stands for powder type

Test shot at proof house Suhl…”


Cr17’s Drilling
http://s810.photobucket.com/albums/zz29/sct_photo/?newest=1

“…The weapon presented via photographs is a Sidelock Drilling Modell line 140 with French set trigger and separate cocking lever by the company ‘Gebrüder Merkel’ Suhl around 1905. It is a simple Model stained grey and with colored inlays, engraved tendrils and swings, hogs bag stock with German cheek, fore end with checkering, stock magazine. It is a collector item adequate of the age, good condition.
The insurable value is about 1800 to 2300 Euro (Hubertus: currently $2448 to $3128).

Markings

Crown and F is unclear maybe the proof master
Crown / eagle S proof shot shotgun barrels
G proof shot rifle barrel
U test shot
Steel brand Wittener trademark Exzelsior
16 in circle shotgun caliber 16/65
16/1 full choke
Letters are manufacturing markings to allocate every step to a certain armorer
118/35 stands for the caliber of the rifle barrel 9.3x72R (according to the Reichsgesetz)

The weapon was proof shot with smokeless and ‘Schulzepulver’ new type, proof house Suhl
1905 was the change to smokeless

The sequence of powder is:
1880 M71 military powder
Around 1895 ‘Schulzepulver’ civil market
1905 smokeless
Therefore 2,5 g Sch.P. stands for 2.5 gram Schulzepulver with 29.3 gram lead bullet
2,1 gr B.L. stands for 2.1 gram flaked powder Stmg stands for steel jacketed bullet…”


That’s it…

Hubertus

[cr17]

Thanks Hubertus - very informative. I do have a question about the "French triggers with separate cocking lever" It may be a terminology issue could you explain those? Certainly I'm not aware of a separate cocking lever. Mind you this gun still has some mysteries. One is that sights and especially the tang sight - I always assumed that the button to engage the rifle barrel would pop up the rifle barrel sight and then if the tang sight was raised it would lower the barrel sight - this is not the case. Perhaps I haven't hit the right combination or it's not functioning properly? Also, by my research the rifle bore designation 118/35 denotes a .340 land to land measurement giving a .358 bore -- t the .366 I expected. Is this correct? This would actually be a bonus since it will allow standard .35 rifle boolits! I'll have to slug it tonight.

Thanks again.

[PFJC]

Thanks Hubertus,
Very interesting information.
My bore is .346 land to land and .356 groove to groove.
I have been shooting .357 162 grain Saeco semi wad cutter gas check bullets.
I have some .360 round lead balls and I seated one of them today to test fit they won't chamber. Case was RWS neck sized to hold .357 bullet.
My chamber is definately smaller than a standard 9.3x72R.
Paul

[Hubertus]

Thanks Hubertus,
Very interesting information.
My bore is .346 land to land and .356 groove to groove.
I have been shooting .357 162 grain Saeco semi wad cutter gas check bullets.
I have some .360 round lead balls and I seated one of them today to test fit they won't chamber. Case was RWS neck sized to hold .357 bullet.
My chamber is definately smaller than a standard 9.3x72R.
Paul

Paul,
Well the measurement sure beats the stamping. It might well be that your Drilling has a tight bore. Looking into the data book the “official” specs are groove to groove 9.25 mm (.364”) and land to land 8.75 mm (.345”). That 8.75 is darn close to your stamping and is as the conservator stated the bore diameter. If the .360 ball doesn't fit into the chamber and you have good results with the .357 bullets I don’t see a reason not to shoot those.
Do you have a chance to get factory ammunition in 9.3x72R? That might sound strange this is the only caliber of the “old days” that is still produced by RWS and you can have it over the counter here (most probably because of all the old Drillings). If the factory ammo would fit your chamber it would be a very good indication, although your dummy round with the .360 seems to do the job, too. So you find me still puzzled and I am sorry that I cannot help further.



Thanks Hubertus - very informative. I do have a question about the "French triggers with separate cocking lever" It may be a terminology issue could you explain those? Certainly I'm not aware of a separate cocking lever. Mind you this gun still has some mysteries. One is that sights and especially the tang sight - I always assumed that the button to engage the rifle barrel would pop up the rifle barrel sight and then if the tang sight was raised it would lower the barrel sight - this is not the case. Perhaps I haven't hit the right combination or it's not functioning properly? Also, by my research the rifle bore designation 118/35 denotes a .340 land to land measurement giving a .358 bore -- t the .366 I expected. Is this correct? This would actually be a bonus since it will allow standard .35 rifle boolits! I'll have to slug it tonight.

Thanks again.

Cr17
I cannot confirm the boolit diameter but this might be, given PFJC’s findings (please see the original specs above).
Ok I’ll try to explain what I know from the heart, mind I don’t have a Drilling myself but it is a standard subject in the Hunters’ education class over here – more modern ones. [Just a note on that one – my hunter education class lasted around a year (every weekend) there are practical lessons involved, too and in the end there is quite a hard test (written, oral and shooting test).]
It is indeed a terminology issue – the separate cocking lever is the knob that engages the rifle barrel. It does not only engage the barrel but “cock” it. Usually with pushing this knob forward the barrel sight should stand up. Didn’t see one with a tang sight so far.
In terms of the “French triggers” you might know this already but here it goes.
In Germany two types of set triggers have been and are still popular:
The first type we call “German set trigger” this is a double set trigger like in a Sharps, where the rear trigger reduces the pull of the front trigger. Apparently this is not possible in a Drilling. You, for sure, found out already that the rear trigger operates the left shotgun barrel (at least it usually does) and the front trigger operates the right shotgun barrel and when engaged the rifle barrel. Still there is a possibility to include a set trigger option you guessed it the second type – “French set trigger”. I think I’ve seen the set screw in one of your pics – it should be either in front or behind the front trigger.
Try to push the front trigger gently forward until you feel it click in place, you now have engaged the French set trigger. This should reduce the trigger pull tremendously. The amount can be adjusted with the set screw. I hope that helps.
If you knew all this, please excuse my chit-chat.

Hubertus

[cr17]

Hubertus - again thank you very much for the time and effort you've put in on this. All information is good - especially confirmatory information. Your Hunter education sounds quite extensive certainly makes all the complaining about our hunter safety and gun ownership courses seem trivial. Many years ago when we had a base in Lahr I had the privilege of hunting boar with one of the forest meisters from there and in Baden Baden quite an experience!

All the best

[Hubertus]

My pleasure!

Yes, boar hunting can be really exciting - did you get one?
It's interesting how many of the forum member have been over here... sometimes I get the feeling half the forum visited Germany :mrgreen:

Hubertus

[ltclark]

I don't know if anyone is still looking at this thread - but I need some help - I have a 16x16x8.7x72 drilling with "prima kruppstahl" stamped on the sides of the shotgun barrels and on the tops are "A. Korinski" and "Erlangen." Years ago I had a gunsmith tell me that I could use 9.3x72 cartridges which I acquired and shot a few with no issues - but now I am older and a little more cautious. Anyway I have two boxes of cartridges one (RWS Jagbuchsenpatronen 9.3 x 72-berdan primers) which fit easily into the gun and the other (in generic box marked "9.3x72R" which are very tight - some fit and close but a few lack 1/2 inch of chambering ---- WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE IN THE "72" VS "72R"?? Would that difference be significant and can I resize the cases so they fit into my gun??

I have the Lyman 366408 molds and wondered which of the loads mentioned above is recommended safe shooting - I dont believe I need to resort to BP - but????

Thanks for any assistance.

[Sailorman]

Itclark, Prima Kruppstahl means "top grade Krupp steel". From a quick search (and of course you can trust the internet!), Anton Ferdinand Korinski was a gun dealer in Erlangen, Bavaria from 1908-1920. The shotgun should be chambered for 16/65 (short 16 gauge) shells, the R in 9,3x72R stands for rimmed. As far as I know (and like Hubertus, I went through the German hunting course) 9,3x72 always was rimmed to function in break open actions. I have seen that some manufacturers dropped the "R" on the packaging (just saw a box from Altdorf without the R on it). Best idea would be to take a chamber cast and measure it to confirm dimensions.
BTW, I have an old Oberhammer drilling with the same chamberings as yours.
Best of luck!

[ltclark]

Hey - thanks much - the info is much appreciated - I will definitely do so. Now that you mentioned Krupp - I remember an uncle who was a very talented gunsmith telling me that it was made of "Krupp steel."

Do you shoot reloads in your drilling?? - What molds do you use? What powder charge??

Thanks again.

[Hubertus]

Itclark,
I do have a German reloading book with some recommended loads.
The powders used are mainly German or Finish IIRC, but you could certainly compare that to a burn rate chart.
You are welcome to write me PM and I can send you the data - of course the use would be on your own risk.

Hubertus

[boca]

Hi
My great uncle had 2 Merkel Drillings both 2x16 with 9.3 x 72r . One had a .22 hornet insert in the 16ga barrel. My Grand father bought them to Australia for him when my opa and mother came out in the early 60,s. He told me when they hunted with the drillings in Germany, his dog a GSP would have differnt yelps for the game that would be spotted/flushed so you could select the right barrel ,shot for rabbits buckshot for pigs etc and a deer with the rifle . I carried the drilling as a young lad I still have a 9.3 shell at home that was always in the gun just in case I saw a pig. After years of walking the property I never fired that particular round off . After 27 years Last year with my son I shot this pig on the property Which59341 my young GSP spotted .
Its good to see you using your drilling they are a great kit to have in the field I have a combo myself and find it the first gun I pickup when I go pig shooting . Its ashame that its 16ga, I am looking on getting one with 2x12ga 3inch chambers and a 7x57 .
Another thing I heard about the drilling was the german luftwaffe used these as a survival rifle for their pilots.

[texasnative46]

boca,

I know this thread is >3 years old BUT perhaps people would like to know that the Luftwaffe bought commercial drillings that were 12x70mm X 12x70mm over 9.3x74R for aircraft survival weapons.

yours, tex

[dakotamar]

here i am bringing an old thread back to life. recently picked up one of these rifles and wondering what dies are people using for resizing brass and where are you finding brass? I am located in Canada.

[SNDBGGR1484]

I was looking at a Hammer Drilling Double Rifle and the rifle barrel was marked 108/49 and wondered if this would be similar to the 9.3X72R? The rifle was marked J. P. Sauer & Sohn.It has 2 barrels.One is 16 ga. side by side barrels that are 29 1/2'' long and the other barrel is 16 ga. and the (Rifle) 108/49 that is 26 3/4'' long.The serial number is 10176.Since this was on the topic of Drillings I hope to get some information.

Thanks, Ken

[David todd]

here i am bringing an old thread back to life. recently picked up one of these rifles and wondering what dies are people using for resizing brass and where are you finding brass? I am located in Canada.

HAHA! This thread was exactly what I have been looking for ! I am currently using a set of 9.3X57 dies for sizing and seating my 9.3X72R, but they are not ideal as the brass on the 72R is much thinner than the 57, so I do not have much neck tension. A friend suggested I try a bit of crimp, soo will try that this afternoon.
David

[RichardB]

I recently purchased a German drilling, 16x16x 8.7x72. Brass and dies arrived today. I had already made a chamber cast and slugged the barrel.
Groove diam is .355, regular 9.3x72R brass chambers but NOT with a 9.3 bullet. Chambers properly with .358 bullet, but my short 200 gr. bullets barely sit in the neck when engaging the rifling. End of chamber shows a very tapered lead from .385 down to just above bore diam at .357. Dies I received were made for .358 bullets as well so I am in good shape. Need a much longer bullet than the 200 gr. Cast I have here.

RichardB