hard boolitsr

[justcharlie]

hi new to casting and hope to get some help.
i water droped some bullets and need to get them softer
can i put them in the oven say around 400 degrees for a couple of hours will that make them softer??
thanks a bunch for your help.

[runfiverun]

that will make them harder.
try 200 for about an hour then turn off the oven and let them sit and cool on their own.
a proper fitting super duper hard boolit will not lead a bbl any more nor less than a softer one.
a bit more info on why the softer might lead to another better fix.

[RobS]

Yep, put them in the oven at that temp or a bit less and they only need to be in there for an hour. I turn off the oven after an hour and then leave the bullet in there too cool down as the oven does. If they are wheel weights they will age harden though after time (a week or so) to around 10 BHN which is a whole lot softer than the 18-20 BHN you have now.

If you shoot your bullets within a day or so after putting them in the oven they should be quite soft yet at around 7-8 BHN.

[44man]

Why do they need to be softer????? :confused:
What caliber, What gun, what velocity, what powder, what are they for?
200, 400, whatever will not make the boolit harder if allowed to cool. They will only get harder if the temp is just below the slump temperature and quenched in water.
It only takes an hour at the most to heat the boolits, more time wastes energy.
If you are shooting a revolver for targets with fast powder, the last thing you want is softer boolits.

[RobS]

If you are shooting a revolver for targets with fast powder, the last thing you want is softer boolits.

This is a good point although many will argue it and there are a few heated threads trying to determine what is better and the fact is both can work fine under certain circumstances. I have noted as does 44man that shooting a plain base with fast pistol powders will result in a bullet skidding as it hits the lands of the rifling that is especially so in revolvers due to the bullet jump for the cylinder to the forcing cone, but this also can occur in autos too.

If bullets are sized correctly (.001-.002 or at revolver cylinder throat diameter):
Regarding fast burning powders, a harder bullet will be able to better withstand the initial engraving that the rifling puts on the bullet vs a softer bullet. Many people talk about leading at the first start of the barrel and goes for about 1/2" or so and then leading stops . Assuming the bullet is sized correctly then what is happening is skidding or stripping of the lead bullet upon initial entrance of the barrel. I believe this is what 44man is alluding to and if not then he will probably correct this statement, but this is what I’ve seen from time to time. A water quenched bullet even in a 45 auto where the pressures are low can actually have an advantage here and is why there is the debate vs air cooled and water dropped bullets. Either way (hard or soft cast) can work and does; I am not one to tell anyone what or how to cast just throwing out there what I have learned from my experiences.

More Explanation:
The fast pistol powder will accelerate the bullet really quickly at first (higher pressures at ignition) and then fade just as quickly towards the middle of the barrel vs a slower powder where there is an easier/gentler push from beginning or bullet entrance of the barrel and then followed up by continued push throughout the entire length of the barrel. Having this in mind, many people who are experiencing problems with quick powders and leading often have better luck with a slower powder when they are using air cooled WW's. Barrel finish also comes to play here too since a smoother bore will be easier to shoot lead from. Either which way (hard or soft) the bullet needs to be of the right alloy strength to withstand the forces placed upon it and understanding where the pressures occur in the barrel (at the beginning for the hard push with a fast powder or a gentle push from a slow powder) makes a huge difference with the understanding and shooting of cast bullets.

[Shiloh]

that will make them harder.
try 200 for about an hour then turn off the oven and let them sit and cool on their own.
a proper fitting super duper hard boolit will not lead a bbl any more nor less than a softer one.
a bit more info on why the softer might lead to another better fix.

If allowed to cool slowly IIRC, they will soften. They will harden if taken to about 400 and water quenched rapidly.

SHiloh

[44man]

This is a good point although many will argue it and there are a few heated threads trying to determine what is better and the fact is both can work fine under certain circumstances. I have noted as does 44man that shooting a plain base with fast pistol powders will result in a bullet skidding as it hits the lands of the rifling that is especially so in revolvers due to the bullet jump for the cylinder to the forcing cone, but this also can occur in autos too.

If bullets are sized correctly (.001-.002 or at revolver cylinder throat diameter):
Regarding fast burning powders, a harder bullet will be able to better withstand the initial engraving that the rifling puts on the bullet vs a softer bullet. Many people talk about leading at the first start of the barrel and goes for about 1/2" or so and then leading stops . Assuming the bullet is sized correctly then what is happening is skidding or stripping of the lead bullet upon initial entrance of the barrel. I believe this is what 44man is alluding to and if not then he will probably correct this statement, but this is what I’ve seen from time to time. A water quenched bullet even in a 45 auto where the pressures are low can actually have an advantage here and is why there is the debate vs air cooled and water dropped bullets. Either way (hard or soft cast) can work and does; I am not one to tell anyone what or how to cast just throwing out there what I have learned from my experiences.

More Explanation:
The fast pistol powder will accelerate the bullet really quickly at first (higher pressures at ignition) and then fade just as quickly towards the middle of the barrel vs a slower powder where there is an easier/gentler push from beginning or bullet entrance of the barrel and then followed up by continued push throughout the entire length of the barrel. Having this in mind, many people who are experiencing problems with quick powders and leading often have better luck with a slower powder when they are using air cooled WW's. Barrel finish also comes to play here too since a smoother bore will be easier to shoot lead from. Either which way (hard or soft) the bullet needs to be of the right alloy strength to withstand the forces placed upon it and understanding where the pressures occur in the barrel (at the beginning for the hard push with a fast powder or a gentle push from a slow powder) makes a huge difference with the understanding and shooting of cast bullets.
I could not say it any better! :cbpour:

[Packy]

Throw them back in the pot, melt them and cast the lead again. Air cool them this time.

[justcharlie]

sorry i had to go shoot today just got back i'm shooting them in a 1911 45 apc.
i water droped them not knowing anything . they are leading just past the chamber
i using universal clays 5.5 to 6.4. they don't seem to lead with a softer alloy.

[justcharlie]

one more thing i cast 6500 over the Christmas holidays.
that's why i would like to make them softer if it was just a few then i would remelt

[anachronism]

That could be a sizing issue too.

[justcharlie]

slugged at 451 sized at 452 i though that also and rechecked it several times

[runfiverun]

allowed to cool slowly they will return to bhn just fine.
just a bit over 400 though and 2+% tin could allow them to slump easily enough.
thats where i recommended the 200.
should have included the water part for the quench at 400.
you can oven treat and de-temper at the lower temp [200] allowing a 34 bhn quenched [400] from oven, to a lower 20 or so bhn with the 200 temp.
so the whole temper de-temper thing easily can get confused quickly.

[outdoorfan]

Putting them in the oven at at least 300 degrees and then allowing them to slowly cool down will soften them. 200 degrees has not worked to soften boolits, in my experience.

[Bret4207]

A different lube of powder charge could alter your issues too.