Another stupid new-B. load work up question.

[penguinchicken]

So I know this has been brought up many times but I am new to this game and bad at research.
How do you guys work up loads on new moulds? I thought I heard you could use data for jacketed stuff but change it by a set percentage? any thoughts or redirects would be appreciated!

[jr545]

The way "I" do it is to find jacketed data in the given weight range or go through some of my old load books that list alot more pb data and find somthing similar and start there.
Keep in mind that a lot of the older data has powder formulations that have changed over the years so if the data is old you may want to check what changes have been made to the powder.
There is alot of info on this site and others as to what works best with cast bullets. I have worked up alot of wonderful loads by reading what bullet/powder combos have worked for others.

[kyle623]

if you dont have lymans cast bullet book, get it, it will have most of the load data you need. also lee's reloading book has alot of cast bullet loads too. just stay pretty much with the same bullet weight and style as you are reloading. if you cant find the weight bullet you have go to the next heavier bullet and start at the low end of the load data.

[Shooter6br]

I use data for jacketed,but select the lowest velocity data. Also the velocity based of the composition of my alloy. I use Lyman no 1 or wheel weights for most solid loads. Just getting into hollow points using 20-1 or maybe 25-1 based on expected velocity range of 900 to 1200 fps. justa though Rick

[44man]

So I know this has been brought up many times but I am new to this game and bad at research.
How do you guys work up loads on new moulds? I thought I heard you could use data for jacketed stuff but change it by a set percentage? any thoughts or redirects would be appreciated!
Depends on the gun and caliber. For revolvers I use starting loads for jacketed and work up for accuracy, many times the loads can exceed jacketed because of less friction of cast. Careful workup is still a must and accuracy is usually found before a max load is reached.
For some big bore rifles that are not fast to start with you have more latitude.
With high velocity rifles you have to consider what lead boolits can take and just how fast you can shoot them.
There is a lot of information out there for cast and good books like the Lyman Cast bullet handbook will help. The Pet loads books have many loads.
There is a point when you decide to shoot cast that you just can't find anything so you need to ask about the caliber here to see what fellas are shooting.
I had the problem when I bought my 45-70 revolver, finding where it fit since there are three power levels for rifles. MR said not to exceed 30,000 psi and all info is in CUP. They chamber the same revolver in .450 Marlin that works at a higher pressure. I can only guess there is too much difference in brass strength between one brand of 45-70 brass and another so pressures must be kept lower. I was on my own and had to do the work.
Safety is always first so it is best to ask questions first.

[runfiverun]

i have a lyman 4 cav wadcutter type mold for my 41.
guess what, the lyman book don't mention it anywhere.
next step weigh the thing, okay nice weight.
checked the bearing length and compared it to other boolits in the weight class.
hmm it has more bearing surface.
start a bit at the bottom of the cast data and compare it to the jacketed data.
8 grs unique seems pretty reasonable let's try a cylinder full, nice try, close, now let's try 8.5... excellent
try in the other 41 hmmm, guess i need to cast a bunch more.

[fredj338]

i have a lyman 4 cav wadcutter type mold for my 41.
guess what, the lyman book don't mention it anywhere.
next step weigh the thing, okay nice weight.
checked the bearing length and compared it to other boolits in the weight class.
hmm it has more bearing surface.
start a bit at the bottom of the cast data and compare it to the jacketed data.
8 grs unique seems pretty reasonable let's try a cylinder full, nice try, close, now let's try 8.5... excellent
try in the other 41 hmmm, guess i need to cast a bunch more.
Kind of like that. If the lead bullet & jacketd bullet have sim bearing lingths & wts. dropping about 5% gets you sim. vel. & pressures. I am still not buying the lead has less friction thing & that's why they go faster. All loading indicators say all things being equal, pressure=vel. Less friction means less pressure means less vel. If you look at moly coated bullet data, it always requires more powder to achieve the same vel. as non moly coated. Why, less friction=less pressures= less vel. I feel the better seal of the bore w/ the lead bullet is what gives it it's higher vel. I could be wrong but I haven't heard the argument yet that convinces me otherwise. The "you can drive a lead bullet into a bbl." argument doesn't wash w/ me. The soft lead bullet is more malleable, which is why it can be driven into a bbl.:veryconfu

[canuck4570]

By the way people searching for knowledge
are far from stupid but the one refusing to give it are the stupid ones.

[44man]

By the way people searching for knowledge
are far from stupid but the one refusing to give it are the stupid ones.
That should be a sticky! Nicely said.

[canuck4570]

That should be a sticky! Nicely said.

thank you

[Phat Man Mike]

By the way people searching for knowledge
are far from stupid but the one refusing to give it are the stupid ones.


:holysheep the point well put!! and the only stupid question is the one not asked!!:redneck:

[canuck4570]

:holysheep the point well put!! and the only stupid question is the one not asked!!:redneck:

bullseye, I should add bullseye with a X

[AZ-Stew]

To help you with your research in the future, look at the top of this page. Just below the box with the welcome message is a dark bar containing a number of options. Select the fourth one from the right that says "Search". Click it and a search box will appear. Resist the temptation to type in the blank. Move your cursor to the bottom of the box and click "Advanced Search". Type in the keywords you're looking for (for this question, type in "work up load") and you'll get 101 pages of threads you can read to find your answer. Scan through the titles to narrow your search.

I don't mind answering newbee's questions, but I expect them to do some research on their own. Handloading manuals are the best place to start, followed by the Lyman and RCBS (if you can find one) cast bullet handbooks. Paper reads as well as a computer display. I'll be happy to give anyone a hand up, but I'm a bit hesitant to give a hand out when the info is available elsewhere. Give a man a fish and he'll eat for a day. Teach him to fish and he'll eat for a lifetime.

Regards,

Stew

[Grampie not Grumpie]

I don't want to start another thread but... I believe that cast boolits go faster than jacketed ones because they seal the bore better and there is less gas leakage around the bullet. This also results in higher pressures than with jacketed bullets. This why you notice that begining loads are usually lower for cast boolits.

My 2 cents worth,

Grampie not Grumpie,

[penguinchicken]

Ok, thanks guys.
If no questions are stupid then I guess I should ask...

I have read the old speer loading manual and I don't recall seeing "bearing length" mentioned there. I assume that is the flat part of the boolit that contacts the rifling?

I will get the lyman cast book even though it is more $ spent, I honestly don't know how much longer I can keep my wife from using this hobby against me!
Thanks again

[runfiverun]

yep bearing length is the part that contacts the groove bottoms.
it is something to be aware of with jacketed also.

[HangFireW8]

I had the problem when I bought my 45-70 revolver, finding where it fit since there are three power levels for rifles. MR said not to exceed 30,000 psi and all info is in CUP.

Take a look through several reloading manuals using the same older powders like IMR and compare similar loads showing CUP and PSI. I think you'll find, in 45/70 it is the same thing. This is not a coincidence, as the CUP system was developed to measure PSI in the 45/70, and they pretty much got it right, at least in 45/70.

It is more progressive powders like double base, and in bottleneck cartridges, where CUP and PSI really diverge.

-HF