First post...Need bullet for 44-40 in Marlin 94, microgroove.

[rdlange]

Want to cast bullets for my 44-40 94 Marlin w/microgroove barrel. I know I need larger dia. bullets for this barrel. (Also wondering how well factory 44-40 loads will work because the bullets are also undersized). Will be trying to slug barrel from chamber to get groove diameter asap.

Please recommend some good bullets for this gun, because I have zero experience.

Anyway, I would also like to use gas checks if I can for at least one powerful hunting load. Lyman 429215 is the lightest gas check I can find. I don't know if this will work, because it doesn't have a crimp groove, and it's heavier than the 200g usual for this cartridge. How does/will it work if I crimp in the top lube groove?

Or is there another way to crimp bullets without crimp grooves, so the bullets don't get pushed down into the case?

Or do I just forget about this idea entirely?

My friend recommends a Lee pushup sizer that will fit my press, and alox liquid.

New at this, so I'm not sure what to look for or ask about.

I'm not really interested in CAS, and since I have the gun.... friends hunt pigs and deer. Would like to do it also, with this gun. If I can get this gun to work for me I'll be keeping it awhile. It feels good.

Be Well,
Tom

[GabbyM]

First the Lyman #429215 gas checked bullet does have a crimp grove. It's the #427098 that doesn't . It's designed to be loaded over a charge of compressed black powder to keep it from pushing farther into its case then crimped over the front drive band to prevent jumping out in a revolver or being pushed back out by the powder compression. #427098 works in revolver smokeless loads since a wheel gun tries to jump the bullets forward under recoil and that's covered with the over band crimp. But for a tube magazine it's just a hassle unless you're using BP. A SWC design may or may not feed well in you lever gun.

I'm no Marlin aficionado so first we must ascertain whether your Marlin is the old black powder standard .427” barrel or a modern .430” diameter bore size. With a micro grove barrel your rifle would appear to be late model manufacture.

For smokeless powder Lyman makes a dandy bullet for the .427”. a 200 grain #427666. Personally can't see where you'd need a gas check with a 44-40. checks can be useful in 44 magnum at the top end of load pressure in a rifle. But the 44-40 is not a 44 mag. Plenty of gun for pigs and deer. If your bore is .430 then #427666 may not cast large enough . RCBS , Saeco or Lee make a 200 grain .430” bullet.

2400 powder would be a good choice under any 200 grain bullet. 16.5 to 18 grains. 20.0 grains being max listed for a modern rifle but I'd stay with a load easy on my brass.16.5 grains is booked at 1232 fps and that's all the faster the old black powder loads would shoot. Any extra velocity over 1250 fps will only flatten trajectory a bit. Don't think you'd notice much difference in killing effectiveness. The 20 grain load is listed at 1638 fps which may start to overrun a plain base bullet but it's also a pretty hot load and will kick the snot out of you. Use less powder and everything will be easier. 18 grains of Alliant 2400 with 200 grain lead bullet should be close to 1,400 fps.

[Finster101]

Gabby, you seem to know 44-40 pretty well. Do you have a good all around load that could be used in a rifle or pistol? I have a New Frontier SAA and an Uberti 1873. The commercial ammo I have used is fine for both, but I do get a case rupture occasionally in the rifle. I just purchased a mold so I plan to reload this cal. Any suggestions? Fin

[Tazman1602]

...........Will be trying to slug barrel from chamber to get groove diameter asap.

Be Well,
Tom

Hi Tom and welcome, I just caught this part of your post. Don't try to slug that thing from the chamber end, just get a soft lead slug and drive it down through the end of the barrel and OUT the chamber. You can use a plastic or rawhide mallet to start the slug in the barrel and then some wooden dowels cut to 6" lengths to get it out the other end without scoring up the barrel crown.

If you try to go through the chamber, there's too much unsupported length on your rod you'll be using. I guess steel would be OK but it's easier just to go from the barrel end and if you are using wood you won't have to run the risk of jamming/breaking the wood off close to the chamber and then digging it out. You wouldn't believe how tight wood can wedge itself in there if you do and don't ask me how I know that one.........

Art

[w30wcf]

rdlange,
Welcome to the forum.
Below is a pic of the various .44-40 bullets that I have used. All have worked well in my rifles. As GabbyM mentioned, the 427098 was designed to be seated over a full case of black powder since it was designed to be crimped over the front driving band. As the pic indicates, a Lee factory crimp die will cut a crimp groove to hold the bullet in place for use with smokeless.
http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o25/w30wcf/44-40bullets.jpg

Pic of loaded .44-40 cartridges. The Saeco bullet is not pictured above and is a bit too long to feed through a '73 but works fine through my Marlin Cowboy rifle.
http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o25/w30wcf/44-40cartridges.jpg

w30wcf

[runfiverun]

i use the magma 200 gr boolit.
my bbl is more like 430 but i can only chamber a 428 sized boolit.
i however do get very good accuracy by using 2400 but only needed 15 grs to do it.
i however doubt i would wanna shoot the 15 gr load in a SAA or one of it's clones.
12 is bout all i would want in one of them.
you might want to develop a regular load and a rifle load.

[GabbyM]

Gabby, you seem to know 44-40 pretty well. Do you have a good all around load that could be used in a rifle or pistol? I have a New Frontier SAA and an Uberti 1873. The commercial ammo I have used is fine for both, but I do get a case rupture occasionally in the rifle. I just purchased a mold so I plan to reload this cal. Any suggestions? Fin

Reading you say your cases "rupture" with commercial ammo makes me wonder about a few variables.

I'd want to find out why you're getting case ruptures then solve the reason for that. You may want to start your own thread and post a few photos of these “ruptured” cases. If it's the ammo then that's easily changed. If you are getting case head separations that could be a head space issue with your rifle. If it's an over pressure issue and the same ammo shoots OK in your revolver the first thing comes to mind with a 44-40 is your commercial ammo has a larger bullet than properly fits in your rifle with enough room to allow case expansion release of the bullet. Usually a round will either fit or not but if it's just right it can squeeze in. If you tell us you need to pull up on the lever to chamber them that would be a tell right their.

As far as loading for a 44-40 I have a simple philosophy. If you want a 44 magnum buy or trade for one. 2400 powder is a good all around powder for 44-40 or 44 mag. Plus you can still buy an eight pound jug for $107. in a revolver you could save lots of money via reduced charge weight buy using WW231 or other faster burning pistol powder. I could be proven wrong but in general you can reach max velocity in a 6” barrel revolver with WW231 but when same ammo is shot from a 20” carbine the 2400 powder will gain quite a bit of velocity while the WW231 or other fast powder will see little gain as it's already peaked out by 6”.

[Finster101]

Gabby, thanks for the info. I will do that in another thread when I dig out some of the used brass.

Tom, sorry for stepping all over your thread. There is a lot of knowledge here. Good luck in finding your solutions. Fin.

[Harry O]

I have a Marlin 94 in 44-40 with microgroove rifling. Load it with 0.430" or 0.431" bullets. The chamber in the Marlin is large enough to take the oversized bullet. That is also why the brass is short lived.

You absolutely need a bullet with a crimping groove if you intend to use smokeless powder. It is best to make sure it is near the 44-40 overall length, but the Marlin is not as critical about length as the 1866-1873 Winchester clones are (I have one of those in 38-40 -- VERY picky about the OAL).

[Trailblazer]

I use the Saeco 446 in my original 1873 Winchester. It feeds from the tube when crimped in the groove. I guess molds and rifles vary! Anyway it weighs about 205 grains and measures a little over .430" from the mold. Shoots good!

[Tim357]

Anybody ever use a Lyman 429434HP? Picked one up in a box of assorted molds and such. Never seen one before, wondering if anybody out there has experience with these boolits.
Tim sends

[w30wcf]

Tim,

A distant friend has this mold and sent me 20 or so bullets to try. I shot them in my '73 Winchester at around 1,300 f.p.s....grouped into about 1 1/2" @ 50 yards

They loaded like the 427098 (crimped over the front driving band)

I still have about 10 bullets left. I'm going to try them at about 1,800 f.p.s. in my
'94 Marlin .44-40 when the weather warms up a bit. Should be interesting.:mrgreen:

Not the greatest pic...
http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o25/w30wcf/429434HP.jpg

w30wcf

[rdlange]

You've given me alot of good info. I feel it's enough to go ahead and start reloading for my gun. Of course I've gotten some reloading manuals. Now I'll be pushing a slug down the barrel for size, then ordering some cast bullets and see what works best before I get a mold. I can get different powder locally, and primers.

I'll keep in touch with my results.
Be Well.

[LIMPINGJ]

w30wch I have the same mold just not hp. I received it by mistake in a buy on ebay, it was describer as something else. I decided to keep it for future use. I got a Rossi lever in 44wcf and want to try it in it. Did you have a case full of bp powder to support the boolit? If you use smokeless how did you crimp to hold the boolit? I think the gc may be of use in some of the higher velocity loads but I need a pb boolit to save cost for the orginal level loads I will most often use. Any you would start with? Thanks.

[w30wcf]

LimpingJ,
I have a 2 cavity mold for the 429434 without the hollow point. Bullets from that mold weigh 236 grs. in w.w.+ 2% tin. Seating depth is about .43".

For original velocities in the 1,300 f.p.s. range, a capacity load of RL7 (approx. 23-24 grs) will support the base of the bullet and give good accuracy.

15 grs. of 2400 or 16 grs. of H4227 are other favorites, but the bullet will need to be crimped with the Lee FCD to keep it in place.

For velocities around 1,150 f.p.s. I like 6.2 / Titegroup. The Lee die will also be required.

You can use the above recipies without the gas check.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~

For a more powerful load that = the early .44-40 H.V. cartridge (NOT FOR '66 or '73 Winchesters!)
Install the g.c.
19/4759 or 24/5744 (capacity loads @ .43 seating depth) will give 1,500-1,600 f.p.s.

Note: capacity loads indicated were using my lots of the above powders, settled* in a R-P unfired case.
* powder poured slowly through a funnel

Have fun!
w30wcf