6.5 x 55/J-word Question

[9.3X62AL]

I have some ideas already on this question, and would like some feedback from those here who have shot a LOT more deer and elk than I have--which constitutes a healthy majority, I'm sure. I am much more a shotgun/bird hunter than big game chaser, but I do like venison and elk steaks--FOR SURE!

Here's the move. I'm getting re-acquainted with a Ruger 77R in 6.5 x 55 that I got back from a friend a few months ago. It drove tacks previously with just about any 140 grain spitzer I tried in it previously, and has done so again with Hornady--a brand I didn't try before. I'm satisfied that it likes 140 grain bullets, in other words.

I prefer the 140's, thinking it is a better bullet weight for all around use than the 120/125-class as game size gets larger, and they shoot well so far in this rifle. This is to be a deer rifle primarily, with use as an elk gun in circumstances like the Alberta hunt Bruce B and NV Curmudgeon shared with me last fall--an elk could just drop by at any time. Locally, there are always a--hole bears to contend with when afield. A large percentage of the local black bears are "imprinted" to raid camps and homes, and since they seldom get shot at--they have little respect or regard for human presence.

I have one lot of 50 Nosler Partitions loaded and ready for testing now, this to discern the bullet's accuracy in this rifle. If all goes well--2 MOA or better--this will be my bullet in this rifle. If the bullets scatter far and wide, a decision is presented--go with one of the 140's that shoot very well (Hornady Interlock, Speer Hot-Cor, or Sierra Game King)--or opt for the 125 grain Partition? It could be driven faster/shoot flatter, but is its "H-mantle" (thank you, RWS) controlled expansion capability a better attribute at lighter weight than are the "cup-and-core" conventional bullets with better sectional density?

It is questions like these that prompt me to leave the j-words at home--get closer to the game--and use a large caliber poured boolit. Some venues don't present those oppurtunities, though--and a little ranging ability can come in handy. Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

[StarMetal]

Allen,

Does this answer your question..picture below. It's a lowly 140 gr Remington Core-Lok bought in bulk shot over a healthy charge of H4895 out of my 260 Rem Arisaka at a doe that was between 80 to 100 yards away. The bullet traveled her whole body lengthing ending up real low in her left ham just right under the skin. It entered her chest. Can't ask for more. Was my first kill with a 6.5 and I was surprised the bullet stayed in her after all I've heard from the fellow here on the forum about 6.5 penetrations. My 139 Hornady in my 7mm-08 would have gone through her as I've done it with that caliber. Have never recovered a bullet from that caliber.

Joe

[Dale53]

My .257 Roberts worked quite well on black bear with a Nosler 115 grain partition bullet. I would be surprised if yours did not do well with the Nosler. The 6.5 is a GOOD caliber for your uses. I would definitely go with the 140 gr bullets for best all around use.

Dale53

[9.3X62AL]

Awright, then.

140's it will be, and I will keep fingers crossed that the NosParts shoot as well as the less expensive ones. The Speers did 1.5 MOA/10-shot groups in the past in this rifle, and the Sierras were nearly as good. No 10-shotters with the Hornady bullets, but they ran ~1.25"/5-shot group at 100 yards.

[StarMetal]

Al,

In my opinion you don't need the NosPart. Look how my cheapo Remington 140 performed. I think Hornady is a good bullet.

Joe

[fatnhappy]

Joe and I are on the same wave length with the 7-08. I've been using the Hornady 139 grain spirepoint (2820) in two 7-08s for years. I have yet to find a deer capable of retaining one (ten or fifteen).
The only 6.55 swede I ever owned was traded for the first 7-08, ironically enough. I used 140 grain core lokts (factory ammo) on a couple good sized deer. Once again I have no pictures to show of recovered bullets.

I would rest easy with 140s.

[fatnhappy]

my boss borrowed a rifle from me last year. NY recently opened areas to rifle hunting that had historically been "shotgun only." The load was a sierra 150 grain game king and it penetrated from shoulder to ham.

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h152/lhsjfk3t/05_Buck.jpg

[StarMetal]

That's what my 140 gr Remington did too, except the hide stopped it and recovered it.

Joe

[StarMetal]

Joe and I are on the same wave length with the 7-08. I've been using the Hornady 139 grain spirepoint (2820) in two 7-08s for years. I have yet to find a deer capable of retaining one (ten or fifteen).
The only 6.55 swede I ever owned was traded for the first 7-08, ironically enough. I used 140 grain core lokts (factory ammo) on a couple good sized deer. Once again I have no pictures to show of recovered bullets.

I would rest easy with 140s.

fatnhappy,

I love my 7mm-08 Sako carbine. I've shot alot of deer and groundhogs and a fox with that 139 gr Hornady. That 18 1/2 inch barrel surprized me when I shot that Hornady over the chrono too. It's my favorite favorite rifle. :Fire:

Joe

[fatnhappy]

That's fast. I'm getting the same speed, from a 22" ruger when I shoot downhill. [smilie=1:

Here in NY deer and bear run concurrently, and you get a bear tag with your big game license. I personally wouldn't hesitate to use the 140 grain hornady on bear in the Adirondacks. Having said that, JJhack told me the newer Hornady bonded core bullets are outperforming nosler partitions for him on elk, at half the price.

[9.3X62AL]

MANY THANKS for all the input, folks. Those NosParts aren't cheap at all, we'll see which one wins a "shoot-off" between the I-Locks and the H-Jackets.

I was able to get the Hornady 140's to 2825 FPS in the Ruger's 22" barrel, but it was a definite overload. I'm thinking that 2700 is about max, and 2650 is a more reasonable limit given the high temps the loads could be getting shot in. 2700 at safe pressures would be really cool, because that bullet is VERY efficient in terms of velocity retention, bC is close to .500 with most versions.

[StarMetal]

Yeah, I'm probably pushing the envelope on it some. One of the first loads using IMR 4064 puts those Hornadays into a nice 3/4 inch group at 100 yds....and alot of folks say wood to the end of the barrel don't shoot. They do when they're Sako's.

There isn't any doubt in my mind that a 139 Hornady would slay any black bear in the states. I don't think black bears are particularly hard to kill nor tough. I'd probably use my 1886 with the RCBS 405 cast because it's alot more fun. The scoped Sako is too easy.

Joe

[StarMetal]

MANY THANKS for all the input, folks. Those NosParts aren't cheap at all, we'll see which one wins a "shoot-off" between the I-Locks and the H-Jackets.

I was able to get the Hornady 140's to 2825 FPS in the Ruger's 22" barrel, but it was a definite overload. I'm thinking that 2700 is about max, and 2650 is a more reasonable limit given the high temps the loads could be getting shot in. 2700 at safe pressures would be really cool, because that bullet is VERY efficient in terms of velocity retention, bC is close to .500 with most versions.

Geez Al,

They say in a modern firearm you can load the 6.5x55 as hot or hotter then a 260 Rem, but I'm beating what you got with your hot load with my hot load....I better not say what mine went over the chrono at. I've since backed off some...some [smilie=1:

Joe

[redneckdan]

I've since backed off some...some [smilie=1:

Joe


flogging the powder charge a little too much eh?

[NVcurmudgeon]

Allen, as you know I took my .260 Rem. to Alberta as primary deer rifle/backup elk rifle. After bagging a 300 lb. whitetail with a Hornady 140 Spire Point, I am glad it didn't come down to that combination on elk. The bullet entered and destroyed the left shoulder, broke the right shoulder, and stopped against the hide on the off side. Range was 200 yd. The buck took one or two steps, fell and kicked once or twice. The hammer of Thor could not have killed quicker. Retained bullet weight was right at 50%. All well and good, but the same shot on an elk might not have provided an equally harmonious outcome. On a combination hunt make mine Nosler Partition. I want ammunition that is capable on the biggest, baddest animal I may encounter, even Old Ephraim Griz with a hangover. I'll risk overpenetration on the smaller critters.

[StarMetal]

Bill,

You couldn't ask for better performance then that, my gosh at 200 yards too and through one shoulder and breaking the other. What makes you think that same bullet wouldn't bring down an elk?

Allen,

Midway prices Hornady 139 Interlock...$18.19, Nosler Partition 140 gr...$21.99, Speer Hot Core 140 gr...$13.99, Speer Grand Slam 140 gr...$16.99. All these are premium bullets, not real sure about the Hornady Interlock (and I love Hornady bullets) but those two Speers are definately not going to come apart on you. Those are darn good bullets at darn fair prices concidering that the Nosler Partitions are 5 to 6 dollars a box more. The Speer Grand Slam and Nosler Partition are 50 a box too, while the others are 100 per box.

Also if you have really good destruction interally on the animal you don't have to have total penetration, besides with the Nosler Partition is under alot of stress tearing up such things as shoulder bones it tends to shed it's mushroom and nothing but a caliber core makes an exit hole with isn't much of a bleeder.

With big games such as elk or moose one should be using a 160 gr bullet in a 6.5 caliber cartridge.

Joe

[9.3X62AL]

[QUOTE=StarMetal

With big games such as elk or moose one should be using a 160 gr bullet in a 6.5 caliber cartridge.

Joe[/QUOTE]

Bill, I recall the "autopsy" on your deer inside Eric's barn. That bullet did a fine job, and I think I used the same one (#2630) in my tests earlier this year in the 6.5 x 55.

Joe--both shots at deer on our hunt in Alberta were at distance--Bill's deer at 200 yards, Bruce's at 290 yards. Both were GREAT harvests, I should add. The clue I deduce here is DISTANCE--shots are long in this environment, and in the California desert where burro muleys or their Rocky Mountain cousins live in the New Yorks or Ivanpahs. This is the application this rifle is being adapted to.

The 160 grainers are almost all RN designs, and don't range as well as the sleek, long-for-caliber 140's do. I have used the Hornady 160 RN in the 6.5 x 54, and it shot very well from a M/S M-1903 I once had. The bullet is designed with that caliber in mind, and its top end of 2200 FPS at the muzzle. Dunno how it would fare when run at 2550 and a close hit was made, and I strongly suspect that a 250 yard shot with it would have more curve than a Roger Clemens out-pitch. These are the subtle but significant factors that push me in the direction of the 140 grain bullet, and the Partition design. I think the 6.5mm rifles all are extremely efficient game takers, which is why I opted for the caliber initially--I just think that "gilding the lily" isn't a bad plan when larger animals are a possibility with smaller calibers. Our Scandinavian counterparts use the 6.5 x 55 on moose with some regularity--what loads are they using, I wonder?

[StarMetal]

Allen,

I got that bout Bills shot being at distance and I emphasized that he got more then excellent performance from that Hornady and what did he expect at that distance and on an animal that weighed 300 lbs. Shucks the bullets stayed intact after going through two shoulders.

I was also implying that at that distance the bullet's velocity dropped alot along with energy and that most non-partition type bullets are pretty much going to stay together, which in Bill's case it did, at those distances. If you feel the partitions are good then maybe you should look at Barnes bullets or Swift. Those Speer Hot Cores and Grand Slams definately aren't going to come apart, so what's the difference between them and the partition? I know the mechanical difference. I'm talking performance difference.

I agree on the 140 grains.

Joe

[NVcurmudgeon]

Joe, no complaints here about the performance of the 140 gr. Hornady Spire Point on deer. I would cheerfully use them on a deer-ONLY hunt, but in an area where larger animals may be encountered, I would feel more confident using a premium boolit designed to hang together and adequately penetrate large critters. Elk bones are the equivalent of deer bones on steroids. I agree with Deputy Al in choosing the 140 gr. weight in 6.5 mm because of flatter trajectory over the 160 gr. RN. Also, the traditional identification of the 160 gr. RN with the 6.5 X 54 and 2200 fps, makes me hesitant to count on them ON A COMBINATION HUNT WHERE BIG ANIMALS ARE A POSSIBILITY. and launched at well above 6.5 X 54 MS speeds.

[fatnhappy]

I just think that "gilding the lily" isn't a bad plan when larger animals are a possibility with smaller calibers.


Sounds like you've already decided the nosler partition is cheap insurance.


Maybe not cheap considering we make "free" bullets ourselves. :mrgreen:

[StarMetal]

Bill,

Agreed....I believe those 160 RN's are for close up. That way they have their top speed and perform great. There are some Premium heavy bullet, but the cost is way up there. The 140's seem to be the choice. That bullet I pictured that I recovered was 140 gr Rem that I bought in bulk from Midway merely to see how my rifle shot them, breath in the new barrel, and see what kind of accuracy they gave. Well they did good on all accounts and I ended up shooting that deer with one. Like I said I was kinda surprised the bullet stayed in her, but I guess that's from reading all those stories on the heavier 160 grains great penetration.

By the way Rick Jamision says it's a shame the 260 Rem didn't take off blazing (it's holding in there) because in his opinion it's the perfect whitetail deer caliber. He also said it fills that dual purpose niche of varmints/deer way better then a 243 and that it can also be used for elk. I believe he's right. I'll tell you the only regret I have going with the 260 in my Arisaka Bill, and that is I had to do alot of work on the feed rails and it's still not feeding perfect, close, but not perfect. Reason is the Type 38 Arisaka was a 6.5 Jap and that cartridge is long and skinny. The 260, as you know, is short and fat. What I regret is not having gone with the 6.5 Swede, as it's long and not as fat as the 260 and it would have fed alot better. In strong action it can equal or beat the 260 too.

Joe

[9.3X62AL]

On deer, any of the good 140's is probably all right. F&H kinda nailed it, though--cheap insurance, even if not cheap bullets. Still haven't shot one of the Partitions yet--maybe tomorrow at the Burrito Match, before or after getting my a-- handed to me. Again.