AA5744 or IMRsr4759?

[softpoint]

I already have a good bit of 5744, and I am getting good accuracy out of it in my 45/70's ,but the unburned, or should I say unconsumed powder kernels are aggravating. I don't mind them in the barrel so much as being blown back into the chamber and denting the brass when following rounds are chambered and fired. A pinch of it can even be dumped from the cases after they are ejected. Hard to believe it's as accurate and consistent as it is when only part of it is consumed.!
I've also had good results in the past using SR4759, and I am thinking about going to that powder for future trials and development in the 45/70's. I need to get about 1400 to 1450 fps. out whatever boolit I use, so Trailboss is out.
What do others here use for similar applications?.

[nvbirdman]

I've never loaded 45-70, but my first thought would be 4198. I don't have a loading book handy so I could be wrong.

[Jon K]

5744 and unburned kernnels........that's just the nature of the beast, but works good....no doubt about it.

4759 and 4198 also work well at 1400 fps.

Jon

[Shooter6br]

Have used Varget, H322 .I find Varget is the best. I like 4759 with a 350 RD at about 1200fps for target work. out of my Ruger No 1

[Thumbcocker]

I preferr 4759 over 5744 for bottleneck cases. For .45-70 I have had good luck with 3031 and the Harris load of red dot.

[JudgeBAC]

3031 shoots well in all three of my 45-70s, Marlin 1895, Ruger no. 1 and Sharps repro.

[softpoint]

I've used 3031 for many years for full tilt loads in the 45/70's but not for these mid- level loads. I need to check my manuals, if I can get near the speeds I am looking for with accuracy, I have no problem going to a flake powder such as Red Dot, Herco, or Unique. I am a big fan of Herco for some handgun uses. Iam using 29 grains of 5744, so for the same results with about half that much, I'd be happy! These are mostly fun and long range plinking loads, maybe a hog, if one shows up, my heavy loads are with RL7, 3031. And 3031 would probably be OK.too, but it'd take a little more of it, and it isn't available everywhere yet, although I got some about a week ago from Wideners.
OTOH, I could stick with 5744....:-?:coffee:

[405]

The two powders are very similar. Have tried both in 45-70 and other BPCR type cartridges. The kernels are normal for 5744. After getting over the cosmetics of the unburned junk, 5744 has proven to be the most useful. I think it is slightly slower than 4759 so a little easier to work with. Also, after getting over the "kernel-fobia" in my opinion it is a little cleaner burning than 4759.

Interesting to note that in some of the bottleneck cartridges like 30-06, 30-40, 30-30 the kernel thing mostly goes away with the loads I shoot.

[jed]

I have had success with 4759 28 grs 400 grn lyman and 23.5 grs 520 lyman using 20 to 1 alloy and WLR primers. Black powder velocity and no leading. I use lyman moly lube mixed with DGL to lube the bullets. Clean burn and accurate. I have used 3031, 4198 and 5744, but always come back to 4759. Shoot the Sharps with 30 inch barrel and 1 twist in 18. Hope it helps

[Shiloh]

I use both those powders in .30's and will try it this spring in the 8mm mauser variant.
My SR 4759 clone meters better than the 5744. That wouldn't stop me from using the 5744 though.

SHiloh

[BruceB]

5744 has been a very useful, flexible powder for me. It functions my M1A and gives good accuracy, and works equally-well in the .416 Rigby...both with cast bullets, of course. As pressures go up, the incidence of unburned granules will go down.

I can not tolerate 4759 due to its measuring charcteristics. The last of my small stash was given away, just to end the nuisance. Life is complicated enough without the aggravation of a powder that will NOT drop relaibly through an RCBS measure, and I refuse to hand-weigh every damned charge. There are plenty of other powders on the market which will perform just as well, without the frustrations.

[softpoint]

I see others here have good experiences with 5744, so I will stick with it, The accuracy is certainly there, it gets the level of velocity for these plain base boolits I require. :coffee:

[Bass Ackward]

I offer the suggestion of either a filler or a magnum primer.

Both would require you to lower the working load, but would minimize what you have problems with.

[DLCTEX]

I like the 4759 for 45-70. A nice, case filling, softer recoiling powder. But the I've never used 5744.

[softpoint]

I did a limited amount of shooting yesterday afternoon and this morning, and tried SR4759 and 3031 along with ammo I already loaded with 5744. I can stick with 5744, the 4759 is ok, too but no better, in the few loads I tried. The 3031 proved to be accurate (I knew it would), but I had to go to levels a little higher than I wanted to get that accuracy in the 2 guns I tried it in. I've long used 3031, H322 and H335 for the warm loads in 45/70.
So will a filler be of any benefit with the 5744? and what should I use? I usually use the poly batting that comes in rolls and just cut off a 3/4 inch or so square.
Cream of Wheat?:cbpour:

[405]

Been covered a bunch but... yes 5744 will work with dacron/poly filler. Larry G. did the pressure work up for these loads a while back and the pressures were very predictable and could easily be kept in the trapdoor range if so desired. I get some of my lowest velocity SDs using filler with 5744. I use it for loads approximating BP loads or about 1150 fps with 440 grain bullets out of the 45-70. I use the high loft poly cut into a rectangle about the size of the air space. I tease out a little in width and length and use needle nose tweezers to insert to maintain all the loft. Average weight of the fill is about .5-.75 gr depending on load and bullet. One load out of the Sharps using 440 gr. cast over 21 gr 5744 with the low density dacron filler consistently yields vel. SDs of 5-7 with a mean vel. of 1130 and excellent accuracy.

[softpoint]

I will try a bit of filler tomorrow, if the wind will settle a bit. I had usually thought of fillers being more useful with the pistol powders. :drinks:

[ELFEGO BACA]

For my Swede and Springfield 03 i like sr4759. I have used 5744 in the 45/70 but prefer black.

elfego

[EDG]

I have used a good bit of 5744 and a lot of SR4759.
Which you decide to use may depend on the strength of the rifle you use.
5744 is pretty cruddy with many unburned grains at published data levels. I have never had it shoot really clean.
4759 is not so dirty and produces fewer but some times larger unburned grains (zombies).
When using heavy 500 grn plus bullets in the 45-70 the zombies often disappear if the charge is increased 1 grain or so beyond published data. With long heavy bullets and long barrels 4759 will often shoot completely freed of any unburned grains. With a falling block rifle you can see the particles in the bore as soon as you remove the fired case. Wipe the bore clean and fire the next round to observe changes from one load to another.

With slight increases in charge weight, bullet weight, barrel length or even temperature outside you may see some reduction in unburned grains. I seen this occur in 40-65s and 38-55s too.

However this may NOT be recommended for all action types and all cartridge and bullet combinations. However my rifles are strong modern actions and the pressures are mild by smokeless standards.

You may consider that 5744, SR4759 and the two 4227 powders have similar burning weights and charge levels when data can be compared side by side. Often 4227 data can be found when the other two cannot.
You may get very good results with 4227, however it does not take up as much space in the case as SR4759.


If nothing else stop at you local office supply and get a can of compressed air with the plastic wand. Use this to blow the particle out of your bore between rounds.

[excess650]

You didn't mention what boolit weight you're working with. Unique can and will work with lower velocity loads, and 2400 would be my next suggestion. You might want the dacron for filler with both of these.

If its just the 330-340gr boolit like the Gould HP, ffg or fffg will get the velocity you're looking for.

[leadman]

I don't like the residue from 5744 and the higher price around here for it. I use alot of 4759 and it does very well for me. I weigh every charge for my rifles so the metering is not an issue.

I also use 2400 in some of my rifles. As low as 20grs in the 43 Mauser with no filler and still get 3" 100 yard groups. Not bad for the large case and a rifle made in 1877.

I just got a Lee Cast Turret press so might be investigating more loads with 2400 and 5744 so I can take advantage of the turret press features. Adding a bit of poly fill during loading would not be too difficult.

[Char-Gar]

I have fired many cast bullets in various 45-70s.

1. For plinking loads I like Unique
2. For 1.2 -1.4 K fps, I like 2400
3. for 1.4 - 1.6 K fps I like 4759
4. For loads above 1.6K fps I like 3031

[softpoint]

Interesting that this thread is still going! I have experimented quite a bit with both 4759 and 5744 since posting, and I find the powders are both equally as useful in my low level loads. I have gone to a dab of poly foam filler for both, and accuracy has improved with both. Most of my loads with these two powders are with 300 to 350 grain boolits, and are in the 12-1400 fps range. :lovebooli

[Larry Gibson]

softpoint

4759 may burn cleaner with the 300 - 350 gr cast bullets you're using in the low pressure 12-1400 fps range you desire.

Having said that I use both powders in my 45-70 TDs and have found both burn cleaner with the dacron filler. Suggest you start with the 350 gr bullet and work up from 23 gr to 26 gr of 5744 with a 3/4 - 1 gr dacron filler. The load will probably do bettter at the top end. Frankly I don't use either powder for my 300 gr bullets in that velocity range as neither work that well. I use Unique without a filler.

Larry Gibson

[softpoint]

softpoint

4759 may burn cleaner with the 300 - 350 gr cast bullets you're using in the low pressure 12-1400 fps range you desire.

Having said that I use both powders in my 45-70 TDs and have found both burn cleaner with the dacron filler. Suggest you start with the 350 gr bullet and work up from 23 gr to 26 gr of 5744 with a 3/4 - 1 gr dacron filler. The load will probably do bettter at the top end. Frankly I don't use either powder for my 300 gr bullets in that velocity range as neither work that well. I use Unique without a filler.

Larry Gibson
Interesting, you say, 23 to 26 gr. 5744, I had found a load at 27 grains with a pinch of filler, and either a 325, 340 or 350 grain was very accurate in several Marlin 1895's. Right in that ballpark! At one time I was loading 38 grains of 5744 with a 300 grain gascheck boolit for a hunting load, but since moved on to loads I like better for hunting.:cbpour:

[TCLouis]

23.5 4759 and the RCBS 300 RNFP GC (325 in my alloy) shot well and came out abut 1250 in an old 1886 I test fired.

[Shiloh]

I recently have tried IMR 4227 as well as 4759 and 5744. All good powders.
My once lifetime supply of Bartlett surplus 4759 will be gone forever soon.

I now have 3 canister powder alternatives, and all work great.

Shiloh

[rbertalotto]

Bringing back an old thread.....

My experience with these two powders is that 5744 works great with heavy for caliber bullets (330g in the 38-55 and 500+g in the 45-70) and you might want a relatively tight crimp. Otherwise you will see lots of unburnt powder and a dirty bore. This is with cast bullets as I don't shoot jacketed. 5744 want to build up pressure before the bullet moves otherwise you will get incomplete combustion.

4759 works much better in the lighter bullets (250g for 38-55 and 300-420g for 45-70) Much cleaner and seemingly better ignition. AND 4759 also works great with the heavier bullets.

In the 38-55 I've had fantastic success with Unique. Clean, low recoil and superb accuracy with the 250-280g bullets.

I keep hearing good things about 4227 and I bought a can to try.......as soon as it stops snowing around here! I need to go out and shovel 12" of "Light Flurries" in a few minutes! :groner: