Lee dies junk or just me?

[cheese1566]

Well, I know I am opening a can of worms here, and I am sure I screwed up, but...

I just got 10 rounds sized with my brand new Lee 308WIN Collet die. Then breakage!!

I read the instructions and was using them in my RCBS JR3 press. Being careful not to apply too much force per instructions, I carefully turned the die 1/8 to 1/4 turn after trying a bullet in the case. I finally got to the point where the bullet would just barely start to seat half way then stop using hand pressure against the side of the bench. I felt it wasn't too loose, and not too tight.

After the 4 th round after setting the lock nut, the top alum cap popped! I found the soft threads had stripped and the collet has a small indent from the matching cone.

I should have known to stick with a RCBS neck sizer set.

Looks like I will send to Lee. Unless someone wants to trade. It is a brand new Lee Collet Deluxe set (collet neck sizer, FL sizer, seater, shellholder, dipper) and a used factory crimp die with it too.

I would gladly exchange a decent RCBS Neck sizer set.

[462]

cheese,

I use them for three calibers without problems.

[cheese1566]

Maybe I will get a replacement cap and try it again.

Obviously it was too much pressure.:confused:

[Artful]

I use one in 308 and am quite happy with it.

[Ben]

Last time I read the instructions that come with Lee Collet dies, I think it says that you can increase neck tension by taking the decapping rod and spinning fine sand paper on the rod while it is chucked in an electric drill.( don't overdo this.....removal of 001 " at a time can make a lot of difference in neck tension. )

This may be the solution to your problem. Then you can get the neck tension you want without the excessive pressure being placed on the die and your reloading press.

I had to do the very thing I'm describing with my 30 - 06 collet die, my 308 Win. Lee Collet n/sizing die didn't need this modification ? ? ? I guess each individual situation is different. I've probably sized several thousand 30 - 06 cases with my Lee Collet die, never a problem of any type ( after I removed about .0015 from the decapping rod ).

[skeet1]

Are you talking about the Lee Factory Crimp die or the Lee Collet Sizer? I have three sets of Collet dies, .30-06, 7.5 Swiss and .303 British. They all work great and I wouldn't trade them for any other.

Skeet1

[cheese1566]

Yep. The neck collet die.

[heathydee]

I have popped a couple of those and had to machine up replacements . The die itself should not be damaged . When I broke mine the problem was not having the die screwed down far enough. Now , I raise the ram to its highest point and screw the die down until it touches the shellholder before lowering the ram and then screwing the die in anothe two full turns . Some presses have too much leverage and since the "feel " of using a collet die is different to the usual neck sizing die the temptation was there for me to use too much pressure which resulted in the breakage.

[cheese1566]

I have popped a couple of those and had to machine up replacements . The die itself should not be damaged . When I broke mine the problem was not having the die screwed down far enough. Now , I raise the ram to its highest point and screw the die down until it touches the shellholder before lowering the ram and then screwing the die in anothe two full turns . Some presses have too much leverage and since the "feel " of using a collet die is different to the usual neck sizing die the temptation was there for me to use too much pressure which resulted in the breakage.

I beleive that is exactly what I did. My bad!

I am using Hornady standard FMJ jackets. Will there be enough case tension to hold, or will they push in when tested on the bench? I guess I can always factory crimp them, but won't when I start using cast loads.

[rtracy2001]

I just picked up a collet set (used) for my 243 and the instructions note specifically not to use the collet die in any press that has an over-center (cam style) handle such as the RCBS rock chucker/JR presses. The instructions then go on to say the die can be used in those presses if it is adjusted well below the over-center point. I have no idea how old the instructions are, but I intend to use either my partner press or order up a cheap Lee C-press.

[BCall]

I have 6 sets I think, and I use them on an over-center press. I have seen one damaged like that before, but that is one foo the things I like about the Hornady Lock-n-Load collets. I adjusted the dies once to where they were perfect, and never have to adjust them again. All of mine work great. I did polish in collets on some of them to make them work smoother, but I have never had a problem with them after that. Billy

[cheese1566]

Just got done polishing the collet and cone. Removed the burr I created on the collet. Tried screwing the cap back in and gave it a try. Didn't hold.

Sounds like I am the junk and not Lee!!! Might be better whan I start loading oversized bullets for my Ishy 2A .308. I do plan on swapping lock nuts with a set screw design.

Guess I'll be calling Monday for a new cap and try again.

[docone31]

Cheese,
I had to send two paper patched castings to Lee to have them modify my dies. I suspect, you are in the same category. As well as the press mismanagement, there is the size difference in the casting.
It won't hurt. If they are sized to .309, do not bother. If they are sized .310 or larger, might not hurt.

[canebreaker]

I swap out 357 and 38 spl with my dies, very little problem here.

[1hole]

"Lee dies junk or just me? "

I have seven, from .22-250 to .300 mag, that I use in a Rock Chucker 2 (wish I had a Lee Classic Cast instead) with no problems. With that moving part it's not a simple "push the case in, pull the case out" thing like others so there IS a learning curve, but it works so well
it's worth it.

Most of the folks who have trouble with Lee's tools are attempting to use them incorrectly.

[Ed Barrett]

Most of my dies and moulds are LEE. I have never had a problem, I load about 600 to 700 rounds a month for myself plus loads for my Grand kids. I don't believe if you spend the most you get the most.

[RobS]

No issues on this end. I've used the collet die for 303 brit, 300 WM, 308, 223, and the 375 H&H with either cast bullets or with jacket it didn't matter. There was enough bullet tension and the dies performed as stated. However, I do use a Lee Classic Press so the directions are clear as to how to set the dies up for such a press versus the ambiguous directions of using other presses.

[Gerry N.]

I've been buying and using Lee dies and equipment for thirty plus years and all the problems I've had have turned out to be operator error as have the problems I've read about on the web.

Lee gear comes with clear instructions, read, understand, and follow them and satisfaction will be yours.

Disregard the instructions and you will get familiar with Lee's customer service staff.

Gerry N.

[stiles]

One thing that isn't included in the LEE instructions is to lube the steel insert that closes down the collet with a high pressure grease.

[cheese1566]

Yep. Did that now after I messed things up. Deburr, polish, grease.

On the bright side, I did have a cheerful gal at Lee when I called Monday morning. We both snickered when I kept adding that I was "overzealous" in my methods!!!:razz:

I ordered Monday morning and they were in my mail box Wednesday afternoon!!!

Try it again this weekend...wish me luck and hindsight!!!

[1874Sharps]

Cheese,

Were you using mixed brass, such as commercial brass mixed with military brass? If the die was properly adjusted with a thinner necked brass it may be misadjusted with the thicker necked brass (such as mil brass).

[Dan Cash]

There are so many better choices than Lee. One should not have top overhaul new equipment to make it work. I tried some of thes collet dies for .222 years ago. What a waste. Each time I break my resolve and buy a "cheap set of Lees" just to get by or experiment, I end up having to buy again. I have taken the pledge. No more Lee.

[Archer]

I've been using Lee dies & molds for a over 40 years
and have had no problems with any of them. I can't say the same
for RCBS. Just because it costs more, doesn't always mean it works any
better.

[mold maker]

Hey Dan, next time you get the urge, just go ahead and order both brands. Send me the LEE and we'll both be happy.
I have and use all brands without any problems caused by brand names. The savings on LEE equip. sure buys a lot of powder and primers.

[1hole]

I also have a lot of brands of presses and dies in my loading room and find they all work very well if I use them correctly. I don't care what tools anyone chooses but I do care if they attempt to put down any other brand unfairly.

I would actually pay extra to obtain Lee's collet neck sizers and FCD crimp dies. There is a moving part in both dies so there's a learning curve to using them. Those not willing to take the time to learn to use them properly would do well to stick with simpler designs but that's not a valid slam against Lee.

Lees die's and presses of compariable design to others seem to work at least as well as the others, at least in my experience.

A lot of people seem to think setting Lee's light alum alloy presses up side a cast iron RCBS Rock Chucker is valid; I don't. But, compare both company's alum alloy and cast iron (or cast steel in the Lee Classic Cast) presses and any perceived differences will vanish. For sure, the RCBS Partner press is much weaker than a Lee Classic Cast but that's not a fair or honest test, is it?

Seems the fact Lee's stuff is inexpensive is a side issue, some of their designs are actually superior to many competitor's tools of comparable function! I like that.

[AviatorTroy]

I have a lot of different brands of stuff, RCBS, Lyman, Ideal, C-L, and more. I don't think that with TODAYS money you can do better than Lee tho. I have a ton of their stuff as well and it is absolutly as good as all the other equipment, at 1/3 the price.

The thing I really like is they are Americans making everything at a family owned and operated company.

And if you do get the occasional bad part, they bend over backward to make it right for you which it sounds like they did.

As an aside, I picked up a new Lee Auto Prime at a gun show recently because I always wanted one and had 15 bucks burning a hole in my pocket at the time. About the 5th case I primed broke the thumb lever. When I called, probably the same girl with the funny Wisconsin twang awensered the phone and yep, 2 days later a new one was on the front porch. I couldn't ask for more than that.

[machinisttx]

I have a lot of different brands of stuff, RCBS, Lyman, Ideal, C-L, and more. I don't think that with TODAYS money you can do better than Lee tho. I have a ton of their stuff as well and it is absolutly as good as all the other equipment, at 1/3 the price.

The thing I really like is they are Americans making everything at a family owned and operated company.

And if you do get the occasional bad part, they bend over backward to make it right for you which it sounds like they did.

As an aside, I picked up a new Lee Auto Prime at a gun show recently because I always wanted one and had 15 bucks burning a hole in my pocket at the time. About the 5th case I primed broke the thumb lever. When I called, probably the same girl with the funny Wisconsin twang awensered the phone and yep, 2 days later a new one was on the front porch. I couldn't ask for more than that.

They do? Then why did they charge my dad for a replacement due to the poorly designed handle linkage breaking on one of their O frame presses? The junk aluminum casting broke while resizing .308 brass. IIRC, the replacement part cost as much as a new press.

Lee makes a few decent items. The rest, including their dies IMO, are good enough to get you by, but not much better than that. They make it cheap and sell it cheap...but as a machinist I can tell you that precision costs money.

[jimkim]

I've never had to pay for any replacement parts from Lee, or anybody else for that matter. They even sent me a replacement pin for a HP mould last year. I think I get good service because I don't call people up and insult them, or their products. I have never broken "the poorly designed handle linkage" on my turret press. Then again I tend to take care of my equipment. I grew up on a farm and learned early on to pay attention to what I was doing. If I broke something, it meant I worked more hours, and had less time for me.

[jcwit]

Lee makes a few decent items. The rest, including their dies IMO, are good enough to get you by, but not much better than that. They make it cheap and sell it cheap...but as a machinist I can tell you that precision costs money.


With this logic the Yugo should have been the bigest hit in the auto industry since the model t.

[cheese1566]

My bad for trying to save some money. I first had a FL RCBS die set and should have bought the neck sizer in addition to the set (or ordered a neck die set). But I returned them to Cabelas and opted to try and save a few bucks and get the deluxe set with collet die. Now after buying the parts because of my foolishness, I should have bought RCBS, as are all of my other dies. My bad trying to save a few $$$.

But that is not to say that all stuff by Lee is junk. I prefer their molds and melters.

They shipped the PAID parts quickly and I went by the instructions. I could feel the die working and learned not to over do it again. The collet die worked as advertised. One decision for the collet die was I was told by others that you can feel and only apply enough force to suit your needs, where the regular neck sizers such as RCBS are all or none. I bought these to reload either FMJ, cast, and paper patch loads for an oversize chambered Ishapore 2A and could adapt the sizing for different diameters.
When it comes to reloading, I like black and white-not a gray area when it comes to "feel" and what you think is about 25 pounds of pressure. These dies have taught me that. I tried them, learned I don't like them.

I will use this Lee die set until I find someone willing to trade for a RCBS neck sizer set or find a nice set of used outright.

In fairness, I have tried them, learned I don't care for them (dies), and learned on my own what I like and don't like.

This is not against Lee products as a whole, just the dies, IMHO.

If you like them, I highly respect that.
Chevy, Ford, Dodge, Toyota, Honda, yada, yada, yada!!!

[swallytrip]

I dont mind lee for pistols but refuse to use them for anything else ie rifles.
My grandfather swears by that factory crimp die but I've never seen any rifle round that came from any factory that had any crimp that looked like that. I imagine that can't be good for the brass over the long haul either. Just my $.02

[swallytrip]

I should also mention that I've had absolutely no problems with my challenger press though. I have a lot of diffeent equipment gathered from over the years and the only Lee product I've ever broke is the part inside their auto prime tool. I am getting ready to purchase a hornady progressive though because I hear Lee progressives are really finiky but other than rifle dies no real complaint on the Lee company.

[Char-Gar]

I am at a loss to understand why a fellow should have to deburr, polish and grease a die to get it to work, when it should have come from the factory in working condition.

I find these threads about Lee equipment very intresting. All to often they are Lee fans sharing secrets on how to modify and others wise work on Lee stuff to get it to work properly. And then they brag to the heavens on how great Lee equipment is.

This is a mystery I will never understand!

[Storydude]

I can polish and de-burr a hell of a lot of equipment for 50% off what the others sell the same thing for,

[Char-Gar]

Storydude.... I guess that is true, if a man places no value on this time and doesn't expect something to work when you buy it. I guess they consider it some sort of "kit" to be assembled and finished before it is put to work.

On the other hand, I do value my time and I do expect things to work out of the box. I am not into die kits.

Different strokes for different folks.

[Storydude]

I find it funny that most of my equipment is Red...and has needed little if any work to produce functional ammo.

do you own any Lee molds?

[Char-Gar]

in 50 plus years of reloading, I have about every make of die there is. The only dies I have had to wok on bore the name of Lee.

The only Lee molds i have are the six hole group buys we do on this site. The rest of the molds (over 150) are Lyman, RCBS, SAECO, NEI, Hoch, Cramer, Mountain Molds, Old West and a few others makers.

[jimkim]

I find it funny that most of my equipment is Red...and has needed little if any work to produce functional ammo.

do you own any Lee molds?

I do, and the only dies I have had no trouble with mine, but I'm a newbie. I've only been handloading since the Eighties. The only dies I had any trouble with were of a more expensive brand. They had a really nice knurl and finish though. [smilie=w:

[abunaitoo]

I find Lee dies are the easiest to modify for cast bullets reloading.
I use the collet die with different size mandrels for different size cast bullets.
Then I modify the seater die to fit the bigger cast bullet.
I've used the cast bullet sizer die to neck size cases.
I also find it easier to clean the lube out of the seater die than RCBS dies.
For condom bullets I use RCBS.
I got a Lee Classic Cast on sale and to me, it's as good as my Rock Chucker.

[Lloyd Smale]

ive had good luck with them. As a matter of fact there my favorite handgun dies. Only set i ever got bad was the 50 beowulf. the sizer was cut wrong but they replaced it without question and the replacement works fine.

[jonk]

Let's consider 2 things here.

Regarding their regular (not the collet) dies, Lee dies do the same job any others do at a fraction of the cost. I've never had to modify one of them. Plus their decapper rods are a treat; not only do they just slide up and out of the way if you have an overly aggressive military primer or accidentally slip in a Berdan case, but they are far tougher than RCBS decapping rods (which crumple in addition to the pin breaking in these circumstances). In fact on the rare stuck case, with the RCBS dies I have to use a stuck case removal kit; with the Lee dies, just take out the retainer collet and beat on the decapping rod with a sledge hammer. It doesn't hurt the decapper in the least and punches out the case. TRY THAT with RCBS!

Now on to the collet dies. These work on a totally different principle than the standard dies. Every different manufacturer of brass will have slightly different neck thicknesses. The range of neck thicknesses the collet die will work with is fairly tight. Being as I only use these for bolt actions with a set of dedicated cases, I neck turn all my cases to one uniform diameter, and then modify the collet die if need be to size to that diameter. And it's all happiness from there. Unlike standard dies, which are just made to tight tolerances, these are precision instruments, IMHO far more so than any but the most exacting benchrest grade standard dies.

That they can be had for under $50 is a true bargain.