Colt 1911 45 ACP Project

[philthephlier]

I would like to build one of these either from scratch or by buying a Springfield Armory starter and taking it up several notches. Problem is there are no small number of options and you can get dizzy really fast trying to decide how to proceed and what parts to buy. Any suggestions would be very appreciated. I have a fair amount of experience with gunsmithing. I'm not claiming to be a trained smith but projects I have completed give me reason to believe I can manage most if not all of the project. Thanks in advance for any feedback.

[robroy]

First thing to do is get Jerry Kuenhausen (sp?) on 1911 vol 1 and 2 Brownells has these books. After that the sky's the limit as I'm sure you're aware given your comments. I don't know what you want in the end so I cant realy offer a place to start, other than to read up on one of J.M. Browning's timeless designs.

[acoilfld]

Try Fusion Firearms http://www.fusionfirearms.com/servlet/StoreFront
They have an assortment of quality parts including kits with the slide & barrel already fit.
They are known for their quality.
If you phone there, usually Bob (the owner) answers himself. He is very helpful.

Albert

[HeavyMetal]

Having done what your wanting to do, several times, I can tell you that I found buying a "base" pistol give's you a working model to start up grading. Make one change at a time and be sure it works perfectly before moving on to the next "option".

Frames can vary quite a bit and be a complete pain to get right with the variaince in after market parts added in.

The Tauras looks like a good subject as well as the Daly's, and several other 1911 platforms that have come and gone over the years.

Good luck and be patient is the best advice I can give you.

[2shot]

The BIG question would be, what are your intended uses for this 1911?

Jerry's book is a must but it's hard to direct you to parts unless we know if it's going to be a Bullseye, Hardball, carry or just for fun gun.

2shot

[philthephlier]

The BIG question would be, what are your intended uses for this 1911?

Jerry's book is a must but it's hard to direct you to parts unless we know if it's going to be a Bullseye, Hardball, carry or just for fun gun.

2shot

What make a 1911 a Hardball version?

[No_1]

#1 most important choices to me are Trigger, barrel, sights and mags. Buy the best that you can afford and you will not be sorry.

Robert

[2shot]

The BIG question would be, what are your intended uses for this 1911?

Jerry's book is a must but it's hard to direct you to parts unless we know if it's going to be a Bullseye, Hardball, carry or just for fun gun.

2shot

What make a 1911 a Hardball version?

I'm assuming that you ment "why make a Hardball version". The answer would be that there are Hardball competions that have certain requierments that state the pistol must be of military grade 1911 or copies of them ( Springfield Mil-Spec for example). Aftermarket add ons like sights, ambidex safety's, metal or target grips ect. could disqualify them for this competion. With off the shelf 1911's you can compete but you will never win. Most of these Hardball guns are tightened up and have match barrels and are capable of shooting 2-3 inch groups at 50 yards. While these guns shoot extremely well they can be finicky about the loads they shoot and wouldn't be my first choice for a carry or defensive pistol.

The simple answer, for Hardball competions at NRA and other sanctioned matches.
I hope this answered your question and appoligize in advance if I misunderstood what you had written.

[yondering]

I suggest starting with one of the Rock Island Armory guns. May as well get the fancy version with the good sights, extended beavertail safety, etc, as it's not much more than the GI model and still cheaper than the Taurus or any other new 1911, but still very well fitted, and solid.

You should know, going into this project, that it will cost you much more to build a 1911 than it would to buy one and upgrade it. Cost of the frame and slide alone will most likely be more than a fully functional RIA or Taurus. Buy a functional gun and upgrade it. Nothing wrong with a good used gun for this purpose either.

[johnlaw484]

I built a hardball gun from scratch starting with a Caspian frame and used military slide and barrel. I then purchased a frame parts kit from Sarco. Cost, if I remember right was around $350.
I needed a 1911 for WWII reenactments. And the fact the gun doesn't shoot too bad either, doesn't hurt.

[KCSO]

If it's a toy there are so many options that you will just have to do what you like.

If it is a serious carry gun John Browning was right. You don't need bells and whistles, No extended slide release, no guide rod, maybe an ambi safety and fixed sights that you can see. A beavertail IF you get bit and that's it. For serious use you want reliability and the ability to field strip without tools. You want the gun to shoot inot say 2" at 25 yards with total reliability. Most of the STUFF they put on target, toy and race guns is not wanted or needed on a carry gun.

[philthephlier]

Thanks for the input so far. Very helpful so please keep it coming.

[2shot]

I have found that the best bang for the buck as far as accuracy is concerned is in fitting a new barrel and bushing. Kart hard fit for the money is in MHO the best way to go. If you have or can borrow the tools it's not hard to do and you can get a Kart barrel for just over $100 and a new bushing for around $30. Some guys like the Eazy fit barrel but it cost more and again IMHO it gives somewhat less accuracy. If you do go the route of a new barrel just make sure you ream the chamber dispite what the manufacurer says. I have seen many FTF after a few rounds with new barrels that were not checked and reamed properly. Every new barrel I have checked needed some reaming to make it 100% reliable.

[technetium-99m]

If you start with a base gun be really thoughtful on how you plan your tinkering. Some things are best done in a specified order. The manuals suggested above will outline the pitfalls pretty well.

I'm personally happy with a decent slide/frame fit, well fit quality barrel, beavertail, trigger and whatever sights are appropriate for the pistol's purpose.

I'd also recommend you start with a standard non ramped barrel gun. I've found fitting non ramped barrels to be easier than the ramped versions.

Go slow, get everything right, and you will have a nicer pistol than a factory gun on your first try. Then you'll do another, and another :)

[KCSO]

To continue...
Each part you put on has to be evaluated no only as to its function but how it will function in your chosen method of carry. A stock GI gun will carry fine in a stock holster but when you put on extended this and that you really have to choose your holster with care. For example a buddy brought in his new SIG 1911 and complained that when he put it in his duty holster the magazine popped out. Well the SIG is a target gun and the extended mag release rubbed going in the holster, in addition he put on an extended slide lock and the gun would lock up about ever 5 shots as the weight of the slide stop was kicking it up in recoil with hot hollowpoint ammo. Stock parts cured the problem. Don't let fads and fancy override common sense and you will be all right.

The last thing is if you fit saftey, or grip saftey have your worked checked by someone who is good with this work, a mistake here could cost you a LOT as compared to the cost of a gunsmith, these parts are NOT drop in no matter what the ad says.

[technetium-99m]

Extended slide stops are the worst item ever created for 1911's. My thumb while sitting on top of the thumb safety also rests on an extended slide stop. Most people will have the lockback problem though due to the added mass. But I have seen some really cool parts created using an extended stop as a donor part.

I really hate standard GI type hammers, since I compete with 1911's I hold them really high and a stock hammer will dig into me like no ones business.

I also hate the GI sites.

[philthephlier]

Keep it coming. Thanks everybody.

[yondering]

I'm personally happy with a decent slide/frame fit, well fit quality barrel, beavertail, trigger and whatever sights are appropriate for the pistol's purpose.


+1 on that. If the gun has those things (and maybe a commander style hammer to go with the beavertail) then I'm pretty satisfied.

[KCSO]

If you get hammer bite and don't want to spend a lot of bucks here's a trick from the 1950's. Just get a commander hammer and notch a standard GM grip safety. This will be a 1/2 moon cut about 3/16" deep. No hammer bite and no expensive parts. As to the extended slide release, on a duty gun the recoil will occasionally cause them to pop up, they are a no no for serious use. A pro slams the mag home and the off hand thumb comes up and trips the slide release or works the slide.

[cheese1566]

I did a 1911 redo from an older Norinco 1911. May not have been the first choice of a base gun, but I read several places that Wilson at first would only touch four gun brands-one of which being Norinco's- because of the steel alloy. It was my choice because I already had and it was a ********* I had nothing to lose and I wasn't trying to build a match race gun or high precision shooter. Just a hobby redo.

I used a "drop in" trigger and hammer kit from Cylinder and Slide= good stuff and I highly recommend it after my experience.

I refurbed everything, but did not do anything with the barrel, linkage, bushing, or locking points as it was out of knowledge base.

I learned a lot from these guys: http://forums.1911forum.com/

[Catshooter]

cheese,

The Norinco is an excellent base as both the frame and slide are forged from good steel.


Cat

[scrapcan]

a thompson auto ordance marked gun can be a good base gun also. Go with a steel frame version.

[cheese1566]

The Norinco I had was somewhat well made considering it was Chinese. Nice thing was everything interchanged so they did a good job in the replicating.

Mine was a ********* since the previous owner was a dork. But I knew it going in, I traded him an old ********* Scout International!
It shot OK but always 3" high. The steel was good to work with in the hand filing and fitting.

She shoots about the same but at least now the trigger group is better and she don't bite my hand!

If I could get another Norinco cheap, I wouldn't hesitate one bit!;-)

[acoilfld]

Here is one that I built from "scratch" a few years ago. One of the most satisfying things that I have ever done. There is literally hundreds of hours in this

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg57/acoilfld/mine.jpg[/IMG]

Albert

[Cherokee]

++++1 on Jerry's book. Here's a 38 Super I built 20 years ago using his book, Colt 9mm as base, Caspian 6" slide, King barrel, headspaced on case mouth, quality other parts. Usta shoot X's at 50 yd when I could see that well. Was very satisfying and still a pleasure to shoot.

http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee102/DCS44256/Style%201911%20Auto/Colt38Sup6in-003.jpg

[shooterg]

Couple outfits selling 80% frames out there if you really want to make it hard on yourself...

[edsmith]

I have built 2 1911,s on 80% frames, it's not that hard. that way you can get the fit you want.

[Char-Gar]

I am a big fan of the 1911 pistol and have been playing and piddling with them for fifty years now. Here is what I have learned that might have a bearing on your project.

1. A decent 1911 doesn't need much upgrading to be good field, defense and play pistol.
2. You need a good trigger, good sights and a decent barrel that fits the slide.
3. You don't need an extended anything
4. 99.9% of jams in a good 1911 can be traced to the ammo or the magazine.
5. With today's CNC machining, good quality pistols might need a little clean up, but are pretty much ready to go out of the box. They will give all the accuracy a human being can use, when holding the pistol in his hands and standing on his hind legs.
6. The more you jack with the basic design the more likely it is you will induce function problems.
7. If you do make changes, do the one at a time, as the man said.

I am another fan of the Norinco as a good basic pistol. Change the sights, clean up the trigger and you have a fine shooting pistol. The slides are milled from one piece of good quality tool steel and the frame milled from forgings. The steel is hardned to perfection. If you can get past the "Made in China" stamp they are good pistols. I have two of them.

The Norinco has a little flat milled in the slide where the front sight fits, so you have to use a little taller one. I used a Brown front and King hardball rear. The hole for the front sight tenon is odd ball, so I bought the larger one and filed it down to fit and then staked it in place with lots of red locktite. The POI is now right on for my eyes with hardball or like ammo.

[hunter64]

I am another fan of the Norinco as a good basic pistol. Change the sights, clean up the trigger and you have a fine shooting pistol. The slides are milled from one piece of good quality tool steel and the frame milled from forgings. The steel is hardned to perfection. If you can get past the "Made in China" stamp they are good pistols. I have two of them.

The Norinco has a little flat milled in the slide where the front sight fits, so you have to use a little taller one. I used a Brown front and King hardball rear. The hole for the front sight tenon is odd ball, so I bought the larger one and filed it down to fit and then staked it in place with lots of red locktite. The POI is now right on for my eyes with hardball or like ammo.

I took off the Made in China and all the other markings except the serial number of course and Parkerized all the parts except the frame. It looks neat and shoots good enough for me.

Chargar: Do you remember the stock numbers of the front and rear sights that you used? Was thinking of doing the same to my Norinco.

[Echo]

I am at risk here, as I haven't built a .45, or any other gun for that matter. But I remember reading an article in Handloader where the author had worked in the USAF Custom Gun Shop under Bob Day. They could take a rack .45 that grouped 7-8" @ 50 yards, and without adding any parts, get it down to 3" @ 50 yards - stock barrel and all. Three inches @ 50 yards is X-ring accuracy. The AF Premium Grade .45 I was issued was an outstanding gun.

That said, do any of you have any experience with the STI Spartan? Inexpensive, and adjustable sights. I believe, if it were me, I would buy one of those and do a trigger job, tighten the rails front and back, slide likewise, and build up the barrel lugs so they could be dressed down for perfect engagement, possibly a mite loose if it will be carried for social purposes.

So there. I've shown my ignorance.

[KCSO]

Here is my duty gun. This was built from Rock Island (Armscor) slide and frame and has stood up to a lot of heavy use. I checked the slide and frame when I did the build and they were just as hard as a 70 series Colt.