Gold Label Came Lead

[gefiltephish]

I just acquired about 750lbs of lead came (used for stained glass). I don't know what the composition is, but it seems really soft. I can scratch it very easily with a thumbnail, so I assume it is almost pure lead. I just emailed the manufacturer to find out.

So now I need to decide the best thing to do with it. Would I be better off buying tin and antimony to alloy with, or selling it to the muzzleloaders and buying Lyman #2? I see on Rotometals that tin is now $12/lb and antimony is $7/lb. Does this fluctuate greatly, or with the crappy dollar it's just going to go up?

If I stick to making my own alloy, what percentages would be best for my use? Currently 9mm and .45 cal handguns, no competition. I expect to be adding a 686 .357 in the future. I'm thinking 92%Pb/3%Sn/5%Sb. I know I don't need super hard alloy for my use. Most of the molds I have (Lee) produce undersized, and require at least 2% tin for proper fill out. Even with 2% tin my Mihec mold isn't quite perfect fillout wise, but at least not undersized. I figure the antimony should help bump the bullets up about .001 in diameter, compared to the alloy I'm using now (either straight ww's +2% tin or 50ww/50range lead+2%). How about 91/3/6? Maybe the extra antimony means I won't need more than 2% tin? I don't intend to water drop or heat treat, unless I add a rifle in the future.

I've read that getting the antimony to alloy with the lead is not the easiest thing to do. I understand that the tin makes this task much easier.

Please correct me if I'm doing this wrong: 750x3%=22.5lbs tin, 750x6%=45lbs antimony.

[lwknight]

I do like using the 92-2-6 . It cast easily and gives about 15bnh air cooled.
If you want to go cheaper, although you might do best with 92-2-6 as a minimum in the 9mm you probably could cut the antimony to 3% or less in the 45.
When you actually use antimony for your hardner 2% tin is plenty. The extra 1 % won't be worth the expense of the tin.

With Rotometals you get a good price break at 50 pounds on tin and its actually cheaper to buy te 30% superhard for antimony. Its only cheaper if you count the 70% lead as value also.

If you use 193 pounds of superhard 30% antimony @ $3.00 per pound
and use 20 pounds tin at $12.00 per pound
and your 750 pounds lead.
You will have 91.91%lead 6.01% antimony and 2.07% tin.
Your cache will be 963 pounds of "Hardball" alloy.
You spend about $840.00 for 963 pounds of alloy (About $0.87 per pound)
That alloy will cost you at least best deal available $1.60 per pound plus shipping
963X1.60=1500 bucks.
If you have almost nothing in the lead then you win. If it cost you $1.00 per pound then you might be upside down. Or at least slanted.

[Tom Myers]

Please correct me if I'm doing this wrong: 750x3%=22.5lbs tin, 750x6%=45lbs antimony.

To be correct with your percentages, you need to calculate a percentage of the total weight of the alloy after all of the trace metals are added.

Try setting the problem up like this:

3% of trace alloy + 6% trace alloy + 91% lead = 100% of the Total weight of the finished alloy.

So:

Let W = the weight of the finished alloy.

Then:

100% W = 3% W + 6% W + 91% W

Let 750 = 91% W

Then

W = 0.03 x W + 0.06 x W + 750

subtract 0.03 W and 0.06 W from each side of the equation to get

W - 0.03 W - 0.06 W = 750

combine the terms

0.91 W = 750

next divide each side of the equation by 0.91

W = 824.2 (Total weight of the alloy)

So:

824.2 x 0.06 = 49.5 lbs of Antimony

824.2 x 0.03 = 24.7 lbs of Tin

750 + 49.5 + 24.7 = 824.2

Hope this helps.

[gefiltephish]

Thanks for the suggestions. I suppose I could use less antimony overall and waterdrop for the 9mm. 93/2/5? While the super hard sounds enticing and results in a larger cache, $$ is definitely an object.

I didn't use Tom's formula for this crude calculation, I'll play with that after. And thanks Tom, I knew my method was not entirely accurate.
2% Sn = 15lbs = $180
5% Sb = 38lbs = $249
92%Pb=750lbs = $ 80
______________$509
803lbs @ $.063/lb

[Slow Elk 45/70]

Thanks for the suggestions. I suppose I could use less antimony overall and waterdrop for the 9mm. 93/2/5? While the super hard sounds enticing and results in a larger cache, $$ is definitely an object.

I didn't use Tom's formula for this crude calculation, I'll play with that after. And thanks Tom, I knew my method was not entirely accurate.
2% Sn = 15lbs = $180
5% Sb = 38lbs = $249
92%Pb=750lbs = $ 80
______________$509
803lbs @ $.063/lb

Hullo, I will agree that you can water drop the same alloy for the 9mm and not have to change your alloy...WFM :cbpour: :redneck:

[gefiltephish]

Well, I thought I'd be smart and put Tom's formula into a spreadsheet. When I first went to save it, I just happened to pick a location that already had in it "alloycalc.xls". Go figure.

I had apparently located it last year at castbulletassoc.org (download (http://www.castbulletassoc.org/downloads/Alloy05.xls)) but never found any documentation for it. Admittedly not the brightest bulb in the box, there are a lot of input boxes there that, without some explanation didn't make much sense to me.

Reasoning that I had Tom's numbers to work with, I zeroed out all the input boxes and began plugging numbers in till it made sense. The result was nearly an exact match. From this experimentation, I surmise that the rest of the input boxes are for ingots of known (to you) alloy percentages, thus allowing you to plug in varying combinations to arrive at the desired formula.

Pretty darn cool.

[lwknight]

This inspires me to add another page to the Alloy calculator that I made. It was originally designed to help work with what was available by pluggin numbers rather than figuring what to add for a certain result.
As it is, you can plug in numbers and watch in live as the percentages and totals change.
If interested in playing with this one. Click Here (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=17869&d=1260496796)

[Muddy Creek Sam]

750# of Pure lead, That is a problem I could live with.

Sam :D

[Fugowii]

Well, I thought I'd be smart and put Tom's formula into a spreadsheet. When I first went to save it, I just happened to pick a location that already had in it "alloycalc.xls". Go figure.

I had apparently located it last year at castbulletassoc.org (download (http://www.castbulletassoc.org/downloads/Alloy05.xls)) but never found any documentation for it. Admittedly not the brightest bulb in the box, there are a lot of input boxes there that, without some explanation didn't make much sense to me.

Reasoning that I had Tom's numbers to work with, I zeroed out all the input boxes and began plugging numbers in till it made sense. The result was nearly an exact match. From this experimentation, I surmise that the rest of the input boxes are for ingots of known (to you) alloy percentages, thus allowing you to plug in varying combinations to arrive at the desired formula.

Pretty darn cool.

Thanks for that spreadsheet. I had been looking for one of these.

[gefiltephish]

I found another alloy calculator spreadsheet on my hard drive. Hopefully I've attached it properly. This one has instructions right at the top of the page. I have no idea where I got this or who created it. I don't recall even looking at it before.

Enjoy!

[ANeat]

I sure wouldnt dive right in and alloy all of it out. I would leave as much of it pure as possible.

Thats a lot of lead and certainly you wont shoot it up in a year or two.

Say 6 months or a year from now you get a muzzleloader or get into swaging, pure lead would be pretty handy to have.

Mix it all up and youre commited.

You could probably swap some of it away for WW or Lino and have some flexability in what you do in the future

[Typecaster]

Lead came IS pure lead. It is stretched slightly before being cut to size, which work hardens it—but it's still pure lead.

What size is it (width across the face, height of the channel, flat or rounded)? Usual length is about 6 ft. There might be others who could use it for its intended purpose rather than smelting it down.

I would consider trading lino, 95/5 solder, 63/37 solder bars if it's a size I can use.

Richard

[gefiltephish]

There are various sizes and shapes. 6' long. Much of it has been severely damaged in storage over many years. For now, I just plan on smelting into ingots as the material is, no alloying yet. I'll do that as I cast.

I just completed 141lbs. I really don't think that there is 750lbs there, more like 500. At least I didn't buy it by the lb!

I'll have to take an inventory of exactly what the configurations are that's left. In my eyes, it's just boolits.

[lwknight]

I agree about not alloying all the lead. Keeping materiald pure helps a lot in both keeping up with what is what and mixing different alloys.
I would smelt all lead into ingots for easy storage and access.

[deltaenterprizes]

Look for some linotype, 50/50 lino/lead makes about the same alloy as 92-2-6 and you can mix different ratios to make it softer or harder.

[fredj338]

My wife took a sg class & I got about 60# of small scrap from the teacher for $20. It's nearly pure lead, I use it for making LHP mixed 25-1 w/ tin. You might want to trade or at least put some away for future use.

[gefiltephish]

Don't worry folks, I'm keepin' it pure until I need a batch of certain content, 20-40lbs at a time.

Late yesterday I cleared off a couple of hd metal shelves, and set up the pb on one, ww's on another, and range lead on a third. Not sure why I did this, but I weighed and marked all the pb's and organized them from light to heavy. Maybe it'll prove useful, maybe not.

Spoke with my brother in MN yesterday, he told me that where he works there are a couple of "balls" of babbitt material that have been laying in the yard for years. Don't know if it's tin babbitt or lead babbitt, but I'm gonna try to get it. Does anyone know if there is a relatively easy (cheap) way to determine if it's predominantly lead or tin?

[ANeat]

The best way other than having it "professionally" done would be to get an exact melting temp and also cast a few bullets with the alloy.

As well as checking the BHN

Compare the as cast size and weight to some know samples you have and you can get a really accurate guess as to what it is.

Thats when its really nice to have a known mold, cast some pure lead, pure tin, WW, or some other mix you may have on hand as a reference