What do you think of small primer 45 ACP brass??

[Marlin Hunter]

Is small primer 45 ACP brass basically the same as large primer brass?

I think the small primer brass is used for law enforcement indoor practice and helps to identify it as lead free.

Does it use standard small pistol primers, or does it use special primers?

Is ignition the same as with a large primer?

The 454 Cassul uses small rifle primers instead of large primers, like the 45LC does, because it can take the higher pressure. Is the law enforcement 45 ACP also using small primers because the round is hotter, and would the case be thicker or stronger?

I think the only problem would be if I mixed the large and small cases on a progressive reloading press.

[JesseCJC]

It's from the lead free Winchesters. What I think of it is that it's a PITA when loading up on a progressive. I found about 20 in my last batch of 2k. But to answer your question, yes, it's a standard small pistol primer, treat it the same as any other .45 sans the small primer. Load away

[dudel]

I'd like it if I could find 1000 cases of it (at a reasonable price).

Then I would replace (or shelve) all my large primer 45 ACP brass and only have to stock one size of pistol primer, and never have to change primer feeds on the 550b.

Don

[dakotashooter2]

FWIW if you find some it wouldn't hurt to grab it. It might come in handy during the next primer shortage.

[goste]

I have about 30 rds...

Mine is some sorta old military round, with staked in primers. they came with an odd lot of ammo, I got with a gun purchase.. Plain white box...So far every one has been a dud. :-(

[yondering]

Federal made some of that stuff too, marked "NT".

I find the small primer brass is handy when my Dillon is already set up for .40 S&W, and I want to load a few .45's in a hurry.

I do keep it separated, it is a pain when it gets mixed with the large primer brass.

[mpmarty]

I toss it in the trash brass can for sale at the local (s)**** yard.

[AnthonyB]

I recently bought 3k at less than 1/2 of large pistol primer prices and plan to use it paces where I can't/don't want to pick up brass.
Tony

[dudel]

I recently bought 3k at less than 1/2 of large pistol primer prices and plan to use it paces where I can't/don't want to pick up brass.
Tony

Cool! Where, if you can mention it.

[XWrench3]

i have 100 of them. other that sepperating them, they work just fine. i dont think there is any real difference in them other than the primer. i will use them until the majority of them split. i would not go out of my way to buy, or avoid them. it is not that much of a hassel to me. they are just different. of course, i load on a single stage press. if you have one of those new fangled hi velocity machines, i suppose they could throw a monkey wrench into the spokes.

[DLCTEX]

I don't like them, of course I load on a progressive. It's hard for these 64 year old eyes to pick them out in a batch. Just one in a run can raise my blood pressure.

[beagle]

I love 'em for my Blackhawk convertible. The SP seems to give less pressure under the same conditions as do cases with LP primers./beagle

[Marlin Hunter]

I'd like it if I could find 1000 cases of it (at a reasonable price).

Then I would replace (or shelve) all my large primer 45 ACP brass and only have to stock one size of pistol primer, and never have to change primer feeds on the 550b.

Don


$50 per 1000, plus $10 shipping

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/SellerAuctions.aspx?User=217712

[AnthonyB]

Cool! Where, if you can mention it.

Mine came from mister gizmo here on the board. Also bought some military 30-06 and civilian 308 from him and recommend him highly.
Tony

[dudel]

Thanks to Marlin Hunter and AnthonyB. Great sources. Looks like I'll be shelving the large primer 45ACP.

Don

[Shiloh]

They foul up the process in the Dillon press. I scrap them. Seems like they were popular for a while, but have since disappeared.

Shiloh

[ReloaderFred]

Small pistol primers were loaded in some European .45 acp brass many years ago, and have recently been brought back for the Non-Toxic rounds being loaded for indoor ranges and those places where NT rounds are required, such as Thunder Ranch, Oregon.

The priming compound in the NT primers has a faster brisance (velocity) than Lead Styphnate priming compound. This caused primers to back out of the primer pocket and lock up actions, particularly in .45 acp revolvers, but also caused problems with semi-auto pistols.

The first solution was to crimp the primers in place, but this was only a partial cure. The next thing was to enlarge the flash hole, which greatly reduced the back pressure, and was found to not have any detrimental effect on either NT or Lead Styphnate primers, which is why you'll see large flash holes in brass from Federal, Winchester, Speer, etc.

Further experimentation resulted in the small pistol primers in .45 acp for NT loadings. There really isn't any good reason for having large pistol primers in a case with the volume of the .45 acp, other than "we've always done it that way".

There isn't any difference between the small pistol primed brass and large pistol primed brass in this caliber, other than the physical size of the primer pockets. I separate the two and load them in batches.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[yodar]

I don't like them, of course I load on a progressive. It's hard for these 64 year old eyes to pick them out in a batch. Just one in a run can raise my blood pressure.

If there's anything (other than the word "Zinc") that makes me go " AIIEEEEE!" and run screaming out'a reload room it's small primer 45 acp brass and small primer 7.62 x 39 brass (Made by Rem UMC -Yellow Box)

They are not inferior, just aggravating a smooth production process


yodar

[dudel]

Mine came from mister gizmo here on the board. Also bought some military 30-06 and civilian 308 from him and recommend him highly.
Tony

Tony,

Ordered 1000 sp 45ACP from Mister Gizmo. Many thanks for the heads up. It was a pleasure to do business with him. Highly recommended.

Always nice to have an outstanding transaction from a fellow CBer.

Don

Time to shelve my LP 45ACP. Gonna be nice to not have to switch primer feeds!

[Outpost75]

I have been cycling out my large primer pocket .45 ACP brass as I shoot accumulated ammo, giving the cases to friends who shoot IPSC and IDPA and have their Star loader set up for the large primers.

Myself I shoot more .38 Special than .45 and it is practical for me to migrate over to small primer pocket .45 ACP brass so that I only need to stock one size of primer.

I load the same 4.5 grain charge of Bullseye powder in all of my high-use handgun loads, .38 Special +P with 130-gr. Cowboy bullet, .357 Magnum with 180-gr. LFN bullet, and .45 ACP with 230-gr. bullet.

Being able to settle one one powder charge and one primer has been a great help for me.

I glean the small primer pocket .45 ACP brass, either CBC, Federal NT or Win-Clean for $0.05 each if I short them myself from the range brass.

I bought 20,000 small primers, and don't plan on buying any more large ones......

[jonp]

I have a few thousand I picked up and sold a few thousand more. I find them just as reliable as lpp.

[Shiloh]

The primer flash hole is for a SP primer. The decapping punch on .45 ACP sizing dies is for a LP Primer. They chink up the works and I have had the decapper punch get stuck in the case.

Shiloh

[davegalesr]

My 45 ACP brass is about half SPP and I have not had any issues reloading or firing them. Sorting them by eyesight is easy and quick and I never had any problem decapping. My SPP brass is mostly Blazer with a handful of mongrels.

[Shiloh]

My SPP brass is mostly Blazer with a handful of mongrels.

Sums it up. Most is Blazer. I have found many pieces at the range with a green line drawn across the headstqamp. Signifying SP primers. I have started saving it again.

Shiloh

Shiloh

[prs]

I think the SP 45ACP cases show the disrespect of the commercial ammo makers toward those of us who reload. They present a real headache and a real danger to those of us who use progressive equipment. I buy my LP cases new and pick all of mine back up to avoid SP. I also think this whole situation shows how weak the respect for SAMMI guidelines must be. I think the situation sucks. Now, you really wanna know how I feel about? ;-(

prs

[jonp]

My 45 ACP brass is about half SPP and I have not had any issues reloading or firing them. Sorting them by eyesight is easy and quick and I never had any problem decapping. My SPP brass is mostly Blazer with a handful of mongrels.
I've used Blazer and Winchester but just ran across a bunch of Speer. All seem to work great. I have not had a problem decapping them but I use a Universal Decapper on them before sizing.

[ku4hx]

They're a royal PITA.

[Ed_Shot]

I've found near identical velocity over a chrony and no difference in performance for a given load using both LP and SP primers in 45 ACP. All my reloading is single-stage but sorting is an extra step

[warf73]

I'm wanting to buy 5K or so of them and sell off my large primer brass and call it a day.

[onehousecat]

I think they are an invention of the Devil. Sorting brass by calibers is totally acceptable, but calibers by primer size is an unnecessary PITA.

[Lights]

Sums it up. Most is Blazer. I have found many pieces at the range with a green line drawn across the headstqamp. Signifying SP primers. I have started saving it again.

Shiloh

That sounds like my marked brass I use for Thursday night practical league. You don't by chance shoot at OGC in MN do you? I reload a lot of Blazers and mark them with a green Sharpie line on the head.

[pmeisel]

Hey, it doesn't bother me a bit. I single stage load and am glad to have an alternative if I am running low on large pistol primers!

Us single stage guys think you progressive guys are a little whiny... :-) smiles, JK, no flame intended...

[Love Life]

There I a reason I don't go full caveman when I load 45 acp on my Dillon. I don't crush primers when a SPP 45 acp case gets into my brass. When I do get a piece of SPP 45 acp brass I remove it from the loader, stomp it flat, and give it the finger as it flies into my scrap bucket.

[dudel]

Love it. Converted all my 45 acp brass to sp.

Everything I load is now sp (380acp, 9mm, 38 spl/mag/max, 45acp, 45gap, 30 carbine, 223, 22 Hornet). I only have to stock one size pistol and rifle primer, and don't have to mess with switching primer systems on my 550b.

I've heard of .308 in SP. May have to start loading that as well !

FWIW,, I've found my 45acp with sp to have slightly lower ES compared to the same load in LP. Velocity is the same or just a smidge higher, which I cannot explain.

Plus, no one seems to want my 45acp brass at the range. I just need to mention its sp to the brass rats, and they just leave it alone and give me space. Anyone who swipes my brass, gets what they deserve.