MtGun44....Thanks

[lead4me]

I was rereading your answer to my question about using clays in my 45ACP, and after much thought and more research I think I understand what you were trying to tell me.
Your advice to this newbi re-loader was spot on I just didn't know enought to understand it.
Let me see if I got it, It's much safer to run at the 820-830 fps with a slower burning powder AND stay below the max pressure that my 1911 was meant to operate at. By pushing the Clays to 820fps I am walking a FINE line with not much room to error. With me being new to reloading and casting it would be better to err on the other powder's than to run the risk of damaging my gun or myself.
That's the problem with a little knowledge, just enough to get myself in trouble. Thanks for sharing & being concerned with another, I loaded up 50 with the starting load of 3.9 clays and am in process of trying to locate another powder to try...titegroup is nowhere to be found around here, not much of anything really looks like another order to Midway!!

[MtGun44]

You are very welcome!

You understand it exactly. There are powders that will give you the same performance with
far lower pressures, so why not use them? No good reason to select a powder that is running
right at or even over max pressure for your regular load. Try Bullseye or Win231 if you can't
find Titegroup, they are also excellent for .45 ACP. I have loaded many tens of thousands
of rounds of .45 ACP with each.

I won an 8 lb keg of Clays a couple years ago and I shoot more .45 ACP than anything,
so I was really wanting to use it. I spent time poring over the books, and darnit, it isn't
really a good fit. I have several friends that insist on using it above the book levels, but
they are sure running, like you said a " FINE line" with possible problems like blowing out
a case, which can damage the gun and definitely will trash a set of grips and the mag as
a minimum - ask me how I know this for sure!

I'm using the Clays for .38 Spl where it works extremely well.

One final thought - THE biggest danger in reloading the .45 ACP is that it is entirely possible
to fit TWO powder charges into the case with many of the powders and seat the boolit.

Please make visual inspection of the powder charge level in every single case a part of your reloading
cycle. I load .45 ACP on a Dillon 550, and I double charged a case once about 28 yrs ago, so now
I LOOK at each powder charge just before I put the boolit on top to seat it. Please work this
final inspection into your routine and you will always be safe from the double charge.

Stay safe and enjoy our sport. Pass it on some day.

Bill

[Wayne Dobbs]

MtGun44,

Not to drift it too much, but can you expound on your Clays use in .38 Special with some of your load suggestions?

Thanks,

Wayne

[MtGun44]

Well, I went to Hodgdon's site for loading data -- here

http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp

And looked up a load to make a 'normal' load for .38 Spl, which is around 800-850 fps with
a 158 gr lead SWC. I had all this Clays, sort of a backwards situation for some folks that
are trying to decide which powder to buy for a particular cartridge. I had a bunch of powder
and needed to see which if the many cartridges that I load would be best suited to use it
up. So - Hodgdon's data shows that 2.9-3.0 grains is a bit under their highest safe load
listed for a 158 gr lead SWC, and the velocity is the normal level of about 800-850 fps and
the pressure is OK, less than the max load. So - I tried 2.9 and then 3.0 of Clays, a less than
max load and I got good results. Not necessarily the most perfect load, but remember, I want
to find a good use for a large amount of a powder, so if it is at least reasonably accurate and safe
then I will use it, since the powder was free and is "in stock".

It also leaves the brass very clean and the gun is pretty clean, not as nice as with Clays and
jacketed ammo (I have seen others shooting this, and observed the condition of their brass
and guns afterwards.)

Just make sure you do not trust any of the data that anyone INCLUDING ME gives you on the
net without cross checking it with the powder supplier's test data. Verification is very critical.

I had a similar situation where I traded into a jug of a powder I had never even heard of, Vectran
SP8. Turns out the only data I could find was for 9mm. This is a european powder and the only data
the maker lists is for 9mm Luger. I wanted to use it for .45 ACP, so I compared the 9mm data to
some .45 ACP data for a few different powders, eventually estimating a load that should be good
for the .45 ACP. I then REDUCED that load by 20% and gave it a try, over the chrono. Results showed
very low velocity. Bumping it up a few tenths of a grain seemed OK and worked OK, but the velcity was
still low. So I plotted the velocity vs grains of powder and drew a line through the data points. A well
suited powder almost always exhibits a nice linear relationship between charge weight and velocity
with a particula boolit. Following this line (extrapolation from the actual data), I tried a few loads with
SP8 in .45 ACP - again over a chrono - guess what, the velocity was a whole lot higher than what I had
expected. So, this powder is non-linear ( adding 5% more powder will NOT give 5% more velocity) and
I quit trying to use it for anything other than the 9mm Luger. Apparently, Vectran (Nobel Sport) does
not provide loading data for this powder for a good reason - it is somewhat difficult to predict the
behavior - a sign of a poor match between the powder and cartridge. So - my SP8 is being run thru
cute little 9mm Luger loads ONLY.

Bill