adapting freechex ll to loading press

[edsmith]

I have a freechex ll in .357,does a great job,but slow to use,I use it with an arbor press,being the lazy old fart I am,there had to be a faster way to use it,I came up with an adapter to use it in a reloading press,I made a adapter that fits on the ram,then the base of the freechex is clamped to it. the top part of the freechex is clamped to a lee sizer die,the ram only moves about a 1/2 inch to cut the alu. strip,then a rod going from the top of the die down to form the check is hit with the palm of my hand to form the check.the rod has a flat knob on top,there is a rubber disc and spring between the knob and the top of the press,that way the foming rod returns and ejects the formed check.all I have to do is insert the alu. strip into the slot,pull the handle,and keep pressure on it,slap the knob.move the strip to a new spot,pull handel,slap,repeat.really a lot faster than the lod way.

[RayinNH]

We need video...Ray

[Wally]

I'd sure be interested in this as well---can you describe how you made the adapter?

[dragonrider]

Pictures?????

[kelbro]

Great idea! I would love to see pictures/instructions.

[JeffinNZ]

Charlie is working on a single stroke FC right now. Thing is though that reloading presses are all wrong for such endeavours. The arbor press is the king.

[mrbill2]

Can't use a reloading press to punch gas checks, don't believe it. I don't know where Charlie comes up with this formula that a loading presses ( mechanical advantage is all wrong ) idea. I punch checks on my press, so does Pat Martin with his gas check tool along with others on this forum. You don't need a arbor press or a hammer. You just need the right tool for the job. This one cuts and forms the check in one operation.

[haff202]

Who sells that gas check tool for a 45-70 350grain-460 Ranch Dog bullet mold FP?

[edsmith]

sorry but I don't have any way to show photos,but I will try to post some drawings as soon as I can draw them up.like mrbill2 said,I have been using my lee press to make checks,I have a hammer and a arbor press, the lee press is the fastest and easiest way to make them. I can make 3 checks on the lee press in the same time I can make 1 on the arbor press.all I have to do is pull the lee press handle about 2 inches and slap the plunger. 1 check made. to make the adapter for the freechex (fc) and for the lee challenger breech lock press I used a section of round 7/8 alu. cut it to 1-1/16 inch.drilled a 7/16 hole in one end 11/16 deep,the other I drilled a 27/64 hole 1/2 in. deep,then I milled a 7/16 slot to open up the 7/16 hole. I then turned a peice of brass to fit the press ram,like a shell holder,it is 1/2 in. long,the small dia. to .437 and pressed into the27/64in. hole.use a spacer to get he proper gap when pressing it in. I then used j weld to make the slot at an angle so the check would slide out of the slot instead of landing on a flat place. use a narrow clamp to clamp the base of the fc to the adapter. I have not made a clamp yet,I have it attached to it with a strip of duct tape.( yea I know, I have been watchng way too much of red green) then put the top peice if the fc together and put in the ram. now screw in to the press a lee push thru sizer die untill you have a 1/2in gap,then pull the handle so the top of the fc is against the sizer die, you will only have to pull the handle about 2 in. , clamp the top of the fc to the sizer die, I use a screw type hose clamp.it works,I will make a clamp for it later (mabey) :) will explain the plunger in my next reply.uot of room

[edsmith]

I timed how long it takes to make checks with my adapter,I made 10 checks in 40 seconds.you can't do that with a arbor press or hammer.to make the plunger,I turned a 3/8" rod to .343 dia.,7 3/4" long. I took a peice of emery cloth and reduced the dia. to .338 on the end of the rod, I used my thumb and forefinger,only took about 2 min.for other calibers measure the forming rod that comes with the fc to get the dia. I used a lee push thru sizing die for a guide and to clamp the top of the fc to. you could use a length of 7/8x14 all thread rod instead. the bottom of the lee die is 7/8 as is the top of the fc. this is the fc with the plastic top. I think they are being out of metal now. get a knob you like and attach it to the .343 end of the rod.put the bottom of the adapter into the ram,set the fc on top of it, make sure the ram is all the way down, put a strip of alu. in the fc,and then screw the lee die in untill there is a 3/8 to 1/2 gap between it and the top of the lee die,pull the press handle untill the top of the fc and die are touching,then clamp them together, insert the rod into the top of the die and let it rest on the alu. in the slot of the fc. raise the rod about 1/4" and mark it at the top of the die,remove the strip of alu. then lower the rod untill you can see about 1/8 to 3/16" of it in the slot of the adapter under the base of the fc. then mark it at the top of the die.these two marks are where you want the rod at rest and under full compression. I used a 2"inch spring and a 3/4" spacer for full compression, the 2" spring gave me the at rest hight I needed.you may have to fool with to get it where you want it. to use the adapter clamp the base of the fc to the ram adapter,run it up and clamp the top of the fc to the die bottom,insert the plunger rod,move the ram all the way down,insert a alu. strip,pull he handle fast and hard to cut the chech,hold the ram all the way up keeping pressure on it,slap the knob on the rod to form the check.the rod will return to the up position,the check will fall out of the slot,push the press handle all the way up, move the alu. strip to new spot repeat. USE ANNEALED ALU. if it hard alu. I got a roll of flashing at home depot,it is hard,I have to anneal it. use a $5 toaster oven from goodwill. DON'T use a torch to anneal wth,it makes the alu. way too soft,the checks tear up if the alu. is too soft. I KNOW :) I put my alu. in the toaster for an hour,the flashing around here has some kind of coating on it. when it is anealed it turns a deep copper color. I wll get some drawings as soon as I can.pleas feel free to ask questions.

[wistlepig1]

Here is pictures of idea's I have stolen from others and prototype 1 of a press mounted GC maker in 30 cal. Needs more work but hopefully you can see the check mounted on the bullit.
19649

19650

19651

[edsmith]

another pik.

[edsmith]

another

[edsmith]

hope these are posting

[edsmith]

more photos

[edsmith]

mounted on press

[Charlie Sometimes]

You don't need an arbor press or a hammer. You just need the right tool for the job.

Yep, that's what everybody keeps doing, and the reason so many people buy the Freechex units, or try to make their own version. They're trying to do something more with something less.

Not everybody is a machinists, or has access to that kind of equipment, hence the reason everybody doesn't have a press mounted gas check maker, and they buy a Freechex, and add an arbor press sometimes. Same thing with the variations on hardness testers- lots of ways to do it, and different views on how it should be done. They want something, want it cheaper, want it faster, and want it now.

I don't know why the facination with speedy "mass production"- no one here is a "factory" (maybe), and if you need that many gas checks, then you need to go buy them, or periodically make them to get ahead of your shooting when the chance presents itself.

It seems to me that the expense exceded the real need, and that is the reason you want to forego purchasing factory produced checks. There is a sacrifice to be made somewhere if you are going to DIY- and that is speed and shooting time, among other things.

Same thing with boolits- why cast if a factory can do it faster?
Why clean cases? Why does the factory do it? Yada, yada, yada............

I do it all because I like doing it- even if it is tedious work at times. Patience is a thing to be learned, and in our society today a lesson lost- too much "instant gratification" and "I want it now" mentality. This is something that will teach it.

Does anyone remember when you used to order by mail and it would take WEEKS to get something from a catalog?

"Know what I mean, Vern?"

You'd think I'd feel better after that, but I don't :lol:

[edsmith]

I miss jim varneys humor. met him once in raleigh.charlie, I understand what you are saying, but-there is always a but :) the trouble with making checks is that it is really slow. there a lot of of guys that just don't the time have to make them.they have full time jobs,family to be with,put that on top of reloading,casting boolits,shooting them,other hobbies,sometimes fast is better.those who do a lot of shooting try to keep the cost as low as possible.making your own checks is one. I for one like making tools,equiment,ammo,building guns. I am not a machinst,just a few chinese machines,low cost, no way I could afford american machinery. I am a retired plumber and locksmith,so I have time to do a lot of things,but I still don't have all he time to do every thing I want to.cheers.

[Charlie Sometimes]

I'm not hammering you Ed, or anyone else- I applaude your efforts. You might be on to something. That is a heck of a looking thing you got there though! :grin: Now get it into a unit that works on everybody's press, and you'll have something.

Added to the "doing more with less" syndrome, it's just as you said- too many hobbies (spread too thin, irons in the fire, etc.). That is another factor of what it is about. It is necessary to take the time, if you want to do something (especially if it is going to be right), or pay out to save the time. Everybody complaining about this or that, because it is too slow just gets to me. I say quityerbitchin'- it serves the purpose, but not your idea. Sell it, move on, figure something else out, etc.
From a previous post somewhere- "You'll wish you had one when the store fronts are boarded up." You can take a Freechex anywhere- the press mounted ones require a mounting place to use. If you're stuck in a cave, whata ya gonna do? (Extreme, I know- but I hope you see the point.) Just ask the Taliban.

I use the Freechex units, and would probably use Pat Marlins units, if they were interchangable and fit any press (to my understanding they are not), and I am not prepared to lay out more money for a little faster operation and be limited to my press only. I don't have a Freechex unit in every caliber I load for- yet. But I will eventually- just in case.

[Fat-beeman]

I would buy a free chex in a heart beat but I don't buy off e bay. if someone can make me one I'll buy it if in reason. I shoot many cals. so would need 22 cal 30 cal 8 mm 243 and 35 cal you see the problem on e bay if there going for over 50.00 I would be better off buy factory checks. can shoot thousands of rounds that often. use mostly for hunting and target shooting.
Don

[mrbill2]

Charlie
Does anyone remember when you used to order by mail and it would take WEEKS to get something from a catalog?
Yes I remember, and it sucked. I love the little brown truck. And I remember using the catalog for other things, but then they came up with a better tool for the job Toilet paper. If you want to use a rock and a hammer in a cave to make checks, go for it. But don't jump on my ass because I want something better.
You have a nice day and I do feel better now!!

[HamGunner]

I am glad to see others tinkering with different ideas of how to build a better mouse trap. That is certainly the American way. I really do not foresee any quality contraption that can punch out a ready to use gas check with very little effort or time, being any bit cheaper than Charlie's little hand tools. The cost of machining and tempering the metal would certainly cost much more than the metal and material itself and that would be a good bit. But, I am certainly waiting and hoping for someone to come up with a good one that I can afford. If the price is right, I'll buy em.

But, I have Freechex tools now and I can certainly make the checks faster than I can shoot them. Buying them is quicker yet, but then I like making them. Just like I like making my own bullets and reloading or forming shells from other brass, etc. , I like to be able to do it myself. I want to feel that I can make up my ammo without being regulated or hampered by supply and demand. If I could make my own powder and primers that were as dependable as store bought, then I would make them, no matter how long it took to make each one.

There was a time or two a few years back where I was so busy working double shifts that I just bought my cast bullets because I did not have time to make my own. The quality and accuracy suffered a bit, usually, but that is what I had to do. But, in the back of my mind, I knew that I was capable of making my own high quality and highly accurate bullets anytime that it was necessary. Now I am retired, and although I still don't shoot a whole lot more than I used to, I certainly do shoot my own now. It's worth it to me to have that secure feeling of being able to make my own, no matter what.

I think we forget about that part of it. It is not really ALL about saving time or money.

Oh, by the way ED, great tool. Although it might not be all that neat and compact, your tool does what you wanted it to do. I have a few tools around that have a lot more duct tape on them than yours does.

[edsmith]

Thanks for the kind words, duct tape forever :) you are right about charlie's tools,you sure are not going to make one in 30 minutes.his tools are a bargain.as soon as he has one in .45 I am going to get one.I am building a couple of mauser sporters, .308 and a 7mm.I am sure I will cast for them,and will use checks. like you said,some times you want to build something,you could buy it cheaper,but you want to do it your self,I built a pair of 1911's awhile back from 80% frames, I could have bought a pair of built ones cheaper,but I think I have better gun. I do like making checks,I just like making them faster,mabey one day I will figure out how to keep from getting bit by the points on the punched strips. if I ever open a prison for hamsters, I am going to use them for razor wire. :)

[Charlie Sometimes]

Well, once again, things are taken wrong.
I got the impression from what edsmith posted after my "venting" that maybe he felt like I was picking on him- nope. Wasn't picking on mrbill2, either.

I just used a portion of mrBill2's post as reference to make a statement about the whole situation.

I see a lot of these posts about how slow, or ineffective such and such tool is (it seems to happen more about the Freechex, in particular). I also see how many people won't buy from E-Bay because of such and such- that's everyones choice, for whatever reason.

I also notice how many people post pictures of there own resolution to the problem- good! Everyone is looking for something better- yes, good, too!

To use a portion of HamGunners post (which, by the way was very good)- "I think we forget about that part of it. It is not really ALL about saving time or money." That is it- but some people are more preoccupied with those points, it seems, and that is all I "see" when I read those posts. Drivin' and cryin'.

Now, things are no longer selling cheaply anywhere, and everyone is going to have to break out of the old "rut" and run in a different track. Things ain't gonna get better, or cheaper, for a LONG time. "Too expensive" is not relative now- not enough choices out there to even cause that to be a factor. Your dollar ain't worth the paper it's printed on, literally, so these prices aren't too bad considering. Get 'em now, before they get higher, or you don't have the dollar to spend- 'cause it's coming. Actually, I think you are getting a better deal spending the inflated dollar on good products. Manufactureres are most likely not marking things up too hign to avoid not selling to keep the stock moving out. Charlie told me that he trys to keep his freechex affordable to help out the hand loaders.

MrBill2- I don't know why you took my post personal, other than because I used a portion of your post as reference. I'm sorry I struck a chord with you in making my point.
When I was a kid, I used the Sears catalog for more than ordering a time or two, but I used the slick pages for reading material though. I wished I had a rough rock then, too. :grin:

[PatMarlin]

Can't use a reloading press to punch gas checks, don't believe it. I don't know where Charlie comes up with this formula that a loading presses ( mechanical advantage is all wrong ) idea. I punch checks on my press, so does Pat Marlin with his gas check tool along with others on this forum. You don't need a arbor press or a hammer. You just need the right tool for the job. This one cuts and forms the check in one operation.

To funny...normally I don't wish to interject comments on the subject these days but that formula must be an ancient Chinese secrete ..:mrgreen:

I punched .021 copper and it wasnt' annealed one bit with my LEE classic cast. In fact it was stiff as a board.

Cast booliteers don't need no stinkin' arbor presses... :Fire:

[1874Sharps]

Well boys, this is probably the first time I have come down squarely on both sides of an issue, but I think both sides are right: It depends on what best suits you individually. I bought one of C. O Darnall's FREE CHEX in 30 caliber and like it just fine. I know, I have my complaints about ebay's liberal and paternalistic policies concerning shooters just like many of you, but it still benefits me so I buy and sell on it with mixed feelings. If and when (I am sure it will be when) I buy another tool for making gas checks in another caliber, should the Good Lord bless me with the money, I would like to try Pat Marlin's tool. Both are great concepts.

[edsmith]

I made a flat tray to catch the checks,but it was a pain getting them out,so I made a chute out of flashing about 6in. long,cut a 1in. hole in one end,slipped it over the ram,let it hang down, then I hung a cottage cheese container under it,now the checks drop into the container. I have a wood bench,so I screwed a screw in to the bench,cut a hole a little smaller than the screw head,so it snaps over it. I will post a photo when I get out to the shop.

[rbuck351]

What spare money I have goes into powder and primers because I can't make it myself. Those things I can make, Checks and check makers, hardness tester, jacketed bullets,dies, I do make because it's a fun relaxing challenge. Coming up with a better mouse trap is the American way. I think most of us do these things because we get an idea in our heads and it just bothers us to leave it untried. Now most of us need an excuse to spend hours on a tool that we could buy but the satisfaction of making your own is priceless. Now I know Pat put a lot of time and parts and pieces that ended in the trash bin to develope a good tool at a fair price. However as the old commercial for Excedrin headache # 27 said "Please mother, I'd rather do it myself". And thats me . I'd just rather do it myself. I've never quite understood why people are proud of things they have bought. I do understand why some one would be proud if they had made it there self.

[edsmith]

last one,this chute makes it a lot faster to make a lot of checks in one setting.

[edsmith]

oops,photo did not send

[rbuck351]

American ingenuity, I love it and the net and this site for sharing ideas.

[edsmith]

rbuck,you are right,a lot of us like to make things just to do it,as you can see,I got a couple of ideas to make a check maker rather simple, the lee check maker and the punch check maker are slow to use,at least one can make their own checks,no waiting months to get the ready made check maker.you can't beat the quality of the freechex ll , I just improved on the speed it can be used.just use the crude ones untill you can get a freechex or pat's check maker. I have made almost 3000 checks on the press mounted freechex.it did not take very long.what I like about the freechex is that it can be used so many ways.