Safety equipment for smelting lead

[RaymondMillbrae]

Hey folks,

I have been reading all over, and noticed that a lot of you guys and gals do not use respirators while smelting.

From what I have read, the smelting does not get the lead hot enough to vaporize, so there is no danger of inhaling lead fumes.

But on the other hand, I have read that there are a lot of other goodies in the WW that are very harmful when heated.

So bottom line, if I want to be safe, what type of respirator filter will I need on my respirator mask while smelting?

In Christ: Raymond

[454PB]

If you are really concerned about it, forget about the "nuisance" dust masks. I'd recommend a HEPA or VOC respirator.

[Firebricker]

I'm no expert but can tell you that a lot of respirater filters are mainly particulate. I would say you will need carbon type like we use for welding stainless steel. If your really concerned check with the manufacturer on which type. That being said with proper ventilation I think your fine. A good fan in an open area is perfectly safe IMO. I'm not saying fumes can't be harmful but leads not the "boogy man" it's often made out to be. The exception is car batteries there is a great post in classic's and stickies abought it. Good Luck FB

[Lead Fred]

I ingested enough smoke in the 60s and 70s to last a life time.
I use my respirator every time I cook a batch of lead

[RaymondMillbrae]

What are some other goodies (that vaporize) that can be found on lead?

I am assuming:

tin
dirt/dust
petrolium distallates (oil/grease)
metal clamps
wood
I've heard "arsenic"

Not fanatic or anything, but just wanting to be safe and not be a hypocrite to my family and other shooters. (You know, the whole.."Do as I say, and not as I do" thing).

Thanks.

In Christ: Raymond

[RaymondMillbrae]

454PB,

"You cannot discover new RESPIRATOR FILTERS unless you have the courage to lose sight of WHAT EVERYONE ELSE IS DOING WRONG, AND DO IT RIGHT".

Sorry...just wanted to play with your signature. Ha ha ha. ;)

In Christ: Raymond

[felix]

Arsenic for sure; it smells like garlic. ... felix

[sqlbullet]

I would say whatever set-up is recommended these days for spraying finishes that contain organics or toxic compounds.

A good fan/breeze is all well and good, and what I use. If you really wanna eliminate risk you won't chance a whiff when the breeze blows wrong. And, shave, those whiskers prevent a good seal, and therefore allow toxins to pass by.

And, it isn't the lead. Most of what I refine has been painted with who know what kind of paint, and has adhesives, plastics, etc on it.

[sargenv]

If the mix is particularly nasty, I tend to use the filter that is rated for arsenic/lead. Usually they are the more expensive filters. Or I try to stay upwind.

[454PB]

I would say whatever set-up is recommended these days for spraying finishes that contain organics or toxic compounds.

A good fan/breeze is all well and good, and what I use. If you really wanna eliminate risk you won't chance a whiff when the breeze blows wrong. And, shave, those whiskers prevent a good seal, and therefore allow toxins to pass by.

And, it isn't the lead. Most of what I refine has been painted with who know what kind of paint, and has adhesives, plastics, etc on it.

That's what a VOC element does, it filters volatile organic compounds.

A respirator utilizing VOC or HEPA filters should be fit tested to ensure a good face seal.

[doghawg]

Raymond

I'm still a rookie caster but have melted down a lot of lead already and have formed some definite opinions. No matter how you position yourself in relation to wind direction it seems like you end up inhaling some of the smoke. Especially when hovering over the pot while fishing out things that float. I went to a hardware store and got a "lead rated" mask...about $40 as I remember....much cheaper than a doctor bill. I think it's the paint and coatings but once I got a little sickly from melting down cable sheathing. I don't know if it's true or not but someone told me the brown paper/cardboard lining inside the lead sheath was treated with arsenic to prevent critters from chewing into the cable. In any case, it can't be good to breath any of the melting fumes.

Also in Christ!

[RaymondMillbrae]

Excellent!

Thanks for all of the responses.

In Christ: Raymond

[madsenshooter]

I still get a kick out lead phobia. I knew some impoverished kids when I was little, they were from a family of 20. A couple of them tried to talk me into eating paint chips from the house next door when I was <5. They were munching away, and said they tasted like potato chips, something they probably seldom got. I tried one flake, that was enough. Well they're both still around, and if it inhibited their mental development any, who'd know. Then there's the now gone mechanic friend I had, who passed away at 82 after washing his hands in leaded gasoline several times a day over the course of 60 years. I imagine the tetraeythl form is much more soluble than anything a caster would be exposed to. Now the paint and such from wheelweights, that's a different story.

[RaymondMillbrae]

I know a bunch of folks who smoke cigarrettes and are still alive and kicking well into their 70's and 80's. But I also know a high percentage of smokers contract lung cancer.

I know a bunch of folks who have drunk alcohol most of their lives. But I also know a high percentage of those are alcoholics who have lost their families, their jobs, their own self-respect...and will have scirrosis of the liver.

I know a bunch of folks who are strong and are showing no symptoms or ill effects of any kind. But I also know from history that there are countless cases of "black lung" (a miners disease), and asbestos poisonings that suddenly occur after many years of chronic poisonings. (A large factor in this is genetic...but why play with fire)?

I know folks advocate "Safety First" to try to place their good foot forward in the publics eye. But go on YouTube, and look at those very same fools doing otherwise - casting lead without eye protection, gloves...or in shorts and t-shirts. (The same ones who will probably have horror accident stories to tell later on).

Certain things are known, and other areas are grey. But lets focus on what we DO KNOW, and take all the necessary safety precautions.

Like I mentioned above, there are those who will shoot without eyes and ears. There are those who will continue to smoke. There are those who will continue to drive without seatbelts. There are always going to be people who can rationalize/justify NOT taking the necessary safety precautions. That's cool...that's their choice...this is America.

But in our household, (men, women, and children), we will guard ourselves and NOT place ourselves in un-necessary danger. As adults we need to lead by example.

Like the Japanese warrior once said, "Lack of discipline is a lack of order in one's mind".

Not phobic. Not proponents of conspiracy theory's. Not weird...

Just wanting to be safe, and not taking any shortcuts. (Shortcuts = laziness = recipe for disaster).

Thanks.

In Christ: Raymond

PS: Doghawg, what you said is very true. It reminds me of BBQing out in the patio. It doesn't matter how many times you move around the BBQ grill...the smoke still seems to find you. Ha ha ha

[snowwolfe]

454 knows what he is talking about. Would like to add that our department in the USAF fitted people with various types of respirators.
In a nut shell, unless you had training in this area, know exactly what you are doing, and buy the proper respirator and have it professionly fitted you are simply wasting your money and giving yourself a false sense of security.
On the other side, common sense and good venting is really all you need to worry about.

[RaymondMillbrae]

Funny!

I did 10 1/2 years in the Army.

The first 4 years I was NBC. (Nuclear, Biological, and Chemical Warfare Specialist). Then the last 6-yaers I went Ranger.

Masks, respirators, safety equipment, running NBC rooms for various units (including fitting respirators and hazardous environment training for entire companies )...I know all too well.

My NBC buddy from waaaaaaay back, just retired two years ago after 20-years in service. He is running some type of chemical action team for the EPA, here in San Francisco. (I recently found him after 22 years of searching).

I did take everything I read above into consideration. Sometimes you read a persons post, and KNOW they know what they are talking about. (Gotta seperate the wheat from the chaff). ;)

Thanks again!

In Christ: Raymond

[lylejb]

Just another thought,

While it's fine if you want a mask, please keep in mind you can also limit your exposure. You don't HAVE TO stand over the pot while smelting. I load my pot, turn on the fire, and go in the house for 20 min or so. The pot is outside, and it can smoke / stink / whatever all it wants. I'm not there to breathe any of it. After 20 min. or so, I come back, skim the clips, and reload the pot.

Yeah, there's a slight exposure while skimming the clips, but not much. The krud has already burnt off, the smoke has gone by the time I return.

The lead melts just the same, watched or not. Actually, normal smelting temps are not hot enough to vaporize much lead. I'm more concerned about the fumes from burning the paint off of painted wheel weights.

Besides, that 20 min gives me a good excuse to check back in with CASTBOOLITS.:D

[RaymondMillbrae]

Lylejb,

that's funny. My Army buddy's name is "Lyles". Ha ha ha. (Coincidence)?

Like I mentioned in my original post, it is the fumes I would be worried about, as I am aware that we are not heating the lead suffeciently to vaporize it.

I am not too sure what materials would be in contact (or attached) to the lead, so I was not sure what kind on hazerdous vapors would be emitted from cooking the lead.

These secondary materials are what I am wanting to protect myself from.

You hit the nail right on the head. Thank you for the response.

In Christ: Raymond

[462]

At times, I'll wear a respirator but ain't shaving my beard!

[snowwolfe]

At times, I'll wear a respirator but ain't shaving my beard!

If you choose not to shave then realize the respirator is just face jewerly:).

[RaymondMillbrae]

Just wear SCUBA gear...or a full-face mask. (Don't forget the flippers when filming your YouTube video). Ha ha ha.

In Christ: Raymond

[brad925]

If you can afford the cost of: rifle, brass, primers, powder,lead, molds, handles............you get the picture. If you can't afford the safety equipment or justify having it, then your life and the effect of its end on your family and loved ones is not worth a hell of a lot. Just my opinion.