Customers will ask the most interesting.

[Gunfixer]

Had a customer ask if I knew anyone who has tried a speer shot capsule in a sabot in a muzzleloader. Well, thats a new one on me. Anybody have any input? With the wealth of information here I figure someone has an experience, good or bad.

Thanks
Bill

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

I would think that the plastic would be unhappy . . . but maybe not . . . be better off I'd think with some shot wadded up in fabric or paper, but what do I know . . . (regular shotshell wads make a mess inside . . .) Also those Speers are made for short barreled guns . . .

[bubba.50]

since the rifling plays a part in the functioning of the shot capsule it would seem to me to not be very effective. my opinion and you're welcome to it, bubba.

[Gunfixer]

Well, thanks. I was thinking along the lines that since the shot capsule was encased in the sabot it would not "come apart" as if it was spun by contact by the barrel. Like I said I just got asked and I have never even thought along those lines so I'd just ask here

[mooman76]

Just load the ML like a ML shotgun,

[jim4065]

These new thoughts, questions are what's most interesting - IMHO. If I can find 'em - :veryconfu - I've got some .357 shot capsules and will try 'em out.

[Archer]

Years ago, I used to load a paper
wad over the powder and then a
410 shot cup filled with 71/2 shot,
with another paper wad over the shot
in a 45cal. kentucky rifle.
It didn't have the best pattern, but I got a lot of
rabbits with it, so it worked good enough.
I've never tried the Speer shot capsule's,
but I don't think they would work as well as the
shot cup. But, who knows?

[Gunfixer]

The more I think about it the more I feel that it would act like a Glazer safety slug, however the potential is there for it to act more like a "cut" shotgun shell. I wish I had some to try. Jim4065, if you do find them and try it please post results. Anyone else feel free to jump in and report.
Thanks all

[Gunfixer]

Oh yeah
As a side note, it would be interesting to see the difference per caliber in a 66,48 and 20something twists. If anybody has nothing better to do.........

[FL-Flinter]

Shot from a rifled bore is limited to very close-range as far as pattern holding is concerned. Back in the day they had hollow wood bullets filled with birdshot for use in the .45-70

I have tried loading the shot bare in the bore as like a smoothbore but plan on spending some time getting the lead out of the bore afterwards. I also made some paper cartridges with birdshot, just be absolutely sure to use the correct wads on both ends of the shot column, I make the tube then load it so there's no possibility of the shot migrating away from the powder. Either way the effective range is quite limited, in the .50 x 1:48 it's 25-30 feet; .58 x 1:66 30-40 feet. Unlike a smoothbore, rifled bores will hold better patterns with smaller shot sizes simply by increasing the random chances by increasing the number of pellets in the load. I would strongly suggest you NOT try this and especially in guns with rifling deeper than 0.004" because the chances for fouling to create dangerous excessive pressure spikes is very much real.

If you're looking for a multi-use gun, consider going with a smooth rifle where you can safely and effectively shoot ball or shot. Don't believe the BS that a smoothie can't be very accurate with a PRB either because there are thousands of them out there to prove that claim wrong. Having the rear sight on a smooth rifle also makes for more accurate wing shooting too, doesn't matter if it's the fixed "U" style formed into the tang or a dovetail type, the effect is the same where a little practice will let the eye control placement of the gun & sights in relation to the target more easily than a simple center bead on a modern shotgun.

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

If you're looking for a multi-use gun, consider going with a smooth rifle where you can safely and effectively shoot ball or shot. Don't believe the BS that a smoothie can't be very accurate with a PRB either because there are thousands of them out there to prove that claim wrong. Having the rear sight on a smooth rifle also makes for more accurate wing shooting too, doesn't matter if it's the fixed "U" style formed into the tang or a dovetail type, the effect is the same where a little practice will let the eye control placement of the gun & sights in relation to the target more easily than a simple center bead on a modern shotgun.


A little off topic, but . . . is there a difference in barrel thickness (mass) comparing a smooth bore "rifle" (is it still a rifle when it's smooth?) compared to a shotgun?

Would a "fowling gun" be a shotgun?

Bringing this back on topic, I agree that the rifling will mess up the shot pattern and leave a "hole" in the middle of the pattern . . .

I'm all new to this Black powder long gun stuff . . .

[FL-Flinter]

Shawn,


Would a "fowling gun" be a shotgun?

Yes. In modern terms it's a shotgun, in traditional terms it's a "fowler" or "fowling gun".


is there a difference in barrel thickness (mass) comparing a smooth bore "rifle" (is it still a rifle when it's smooth?) compared to a shotgun?

You're correct, it's a bit of confusing terminology ... barrel thickness vary from mfg to mfg but there's no difference in a given smoothbore barrel used for shot or ball unless specified by the customer when the barrel is ordered. The difference is the sights, normally a fowler (for shooting primarily shot) will only have a small low-profile blade that would more correctly be described as a "bumb" on the front. Not a good pic but should get the point across...
http://i48.tinypic.com/rw5nag.jpg

Turning a regular fowler into a "smooth rifle", or otherwise a smoothbore capable of shooting PRB's accurately, is a matter of using a more defined and slightly higher front sight in combination with a simple tang notch or dovetailed rifle style rear sight.

A fowler can also be fitted with a rifled barrel, the same style and proportions are maintained with the exception of a slightly thicker barrel wall to allow for the rifling grooves. These are fitted with proper rifle sights and made for shooting PRB's only. The purpose is to create a larger bore rifle (normally .58 or .62 caliber) with a 42" long barrel that handles like a fowler. Of course, the fowlers and smooth rifles can also be done with a shorther barrel length in the 30-36" range to make for a good all-around woods gun for shooting both shot and ball. The two biggest concerns is building a gun that is properly balanced and fitted to the user; doesn't matter if it's a rifle, pistol, fowler or smooth rifle, if it doesn't fit and handle well, the user is not going to obtain good results no matter what the gun itself is capable of. As I said before, don't discount the accuracy of a smoothbore because they can be quite impressive.