RCBS Lead Dipper quality

[HangFireW8]

I thought I'd treat myself to some quality equipment last week, so I ordered an RCBS Lead Dipper. It arrived today, oh my.

The pour spout hole is drilled off center.

The spout is ground at all sorts of angles, and the hole is sort of an ellipse with high and low sides and a really high side that looks like it would leak lead when I put it against an RCBS sprue plate hole.

The metal handle grommet is loose and the stain and finish job on the handle wouldn't even pass muster at Middle School wood shop.

Funny thing is, I bought an air gun manufactured in the same country for $35 that has a perfectly cut crown, and beautifully rifled .177 bore, but for $25 RCBS's OEM cannot drill a hole straight or grind a cone even. What kind of profit margin is on each item?

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/album.php?albumid=279&pictureid=1865

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/album.php?albumid=279&pictureid=1864

I thought I was going to treat myself to a Rock Chucker Supreme soon, but meanwhile Lee is making their cast iron presses in America that no one complains about.

I've seen this happen before, a company trades on their good name with, uh, new sources for their goods, and make a higher profit margin right into bankruptcy, because no one buys their product anymore. Than the old stuff goes for big $$$ on fleabay and everyone talks about the good old days when that brand was actually worth something.

I'll call RCBS tomorrow, not because I expect them to make good on it, but just to give them a piece of my mind. Then, I'll get one of them purty quality ladles I saw here on this board. What was the manufacturer again?

-HF

PS I put pictures in my Album but they just aren't show up here.

[Ben]

RCBS will treat you right ! ! Don't worry a minute...............

Ben

[HangFireW8]

RCBS will treat you right ! ! Don't worry a minute...............

Ben

Called RCBS, tech spoke to manager and got permission to send me a replacement head, inspected by them, without me having to return the one I have first. I thanked him but I'm thinking, "don't do me no favors".

Never had to send anything else back to RCBS, unless they really wanted to see what was wrong, even then we cross-shipped.

I suggest some design improvements, like interference threads so that the stem won't unscrew so easily from the ladle. He said he'd pass it on but I didn't hear keys clicking or handwriting going on.

Sorry about my attitude, but the fact that there's no "Inspected by" tag in the box says it all. At pennies per product, its easier to replace it then fix the problems, and the quite absent quality inspector is just one more US job lost. Never mind the affect on the company reputation.

-HF

[Changeling]

RCBS is now made in China, enjoy the quality.

[Gunlaker]

RCBS is now made in China, enjoy the quality.

How long ago did they switch?

I'm getting tired of this junk from overseas. The other day I bought an LED flashlight from Cabelas. I somehow missed the "made in China" on the package. It worked for a grand total of 30 seconds before it started flickering from a loose connection.

Chris.

[HangFireW8]

RCBS is now made in China, enjoy the quality.

I've had my eye on the RC Supreme ever since it came out, then I thought I'd have to get a Lee to buy American iron but then I remembered... Redding still makes cast iron presses too. Still made in America?

Their service isn't quite as freebie as RCBS, but then again, I've never needed anything from Redding fixed, just wanted spare parts like more die boxes for loose dies. Got "factory seconds" for 1/2 price, and they threw in the labels I wanted as well. Look like new to me...

-HF

[HangFireW8]

I'm getting tired of this junk from overseas. The other day I bought an LED flashlight from Cabelas. I somehow missed the "made in China" on the package. It worked for a grand total of 30 seconds before it started flickering from a loose connection.

What many US companies don't realize is, in China quality control is primarily the customers responsibility. That is, they expect you to hire your own inspectors and have them work in their plant. If you've read about Mauser and Westinghouse with their Russian contracts, you know what I'm talking about. The Russians sent men to live at the factory and inspect each and every rifle as it came off the line.

That is why so many American companies end up with Egg on the face when they first start marketing Chinese products. "But, the preproduction samples looked so good!"

-HF

[Changeling]

How long ago did they switch?

I'm getting tired of this junk from overseas. The other day I bought an LED flashlight from Cabelas. I somehow missed the "made in China" on the package. It worked for a grand total of 30 seconds before it started flickering from a loose connection.

Chris.

I don't know when they switched, sorry. I bought all Redding dies including the crimp only for the Ruger 45 LC I'm building. These aren't the first Redding dies I bought. I have several sets for rifles and I really like them. If you get a chance inspect some at a retail shop and you will see what I mean. I once had a problem with a sizing die and called them, they shipped me a new one "Overnight mail" !!. Can't beat that. Only problem I ever had with them, says a lot in my book.

Friend of mine (44Man) uses Hornady, I'm going to try and convert him, LOL.


Chris if you are looking for a flashlight, man buy one of the LED flash lights.

I bought a "StreamLight" that holds 4AA batteries in 2002. I use it as a bedroom light and everything else. In all that time I have only changed the batteries 4 times! When you reach for it, it WORKS!! Highly recommend.

[Slow Elk 45/70]

Better get used to the lack of quality these days, the Sock Monkey is driving all the American Manufacturing jobs to other countries [smilie=b:

[quasi]

RCBS was having their CASTINGS done in China, but have changed back to U.S. castings. This is according to a Dillon rep. on the Enos forums.

[HangFireW8]

RCBS was having their CASTINGS done in China, but have changed back to U.S. castings. This is according to a Dillon rep. on the Enos forums.

Was he talking about presses and/or casting dippers? Because my new production dipper is marked Made in China, and it sure looks it.

-HF

[anachronism]

I got a bad one too. Same complaints. It's going back to Midway.

[davcar45]

I was going to get an RCBS ladle. Guess I am glad I didn't. What about the ladles Roto Metals sells? Any good?

[rob45]

What about the ladles Roto Metals sells? Any good?

If you're talking about the Rowell ladles, I like all 6 of mine.

#1 long- for most bullets
#1 short- same only with shorter handle to maneuver easier in certain pots
#2- retains heat better for outdoor bullet casting in cooler weather, also used for large sinker moulds
#3- small ingot moulds
#5- larger ingots
#7- pigs/blocks

IMO, money well-spent. I would not trade any of them. Clean castings. Very high quality. Very well-designed. Hold heat well. Easy to use. And on and on and on and on...

[Marlin Hunter]

RCBS is now made in China, enjoy the quality.


I wish I knew that before I ordered some RCBS stuff. :killingpc

[doghawg]

RCBS is now made in China, enjoy the quality.

Do you KNOW if that statement is 100% accurate?? Or is it just the ladles? Or just the castings? Or did they go to China and now are back to using American castings as one poster stated?

After many years of outstanding service from RCBS I intend to find out!

[cigg52]

Does someone know if their molds (RCBS) are made here or in china

[Gunlaker]

Does someone know if their molds (RCBS) are made here or in china

My RCBS moulds say Made in the USA on the box.

Chris.

[HangFireW8]

Do you KNOW if that statement is 100% accurate?? Or is it just the ladles? Or just the castings? Or did they go to China and now are back to using American castings as one poster stated?

After many years of outstanding service from RCBS I intend to find out!

I have not seen any RCBS items marked "Made in China" except cast iron forgings and electronics. Everything else is marked "Made in USA". That is what the packages are marked, take that for what its worth.

-HF

[The Double D]

RCBS is now made in China, enjoy the quality.

Bet you can't prove that!!!

[340six]

Bet you can't prove that!!!
I am also waiting to see if true or not every 2 weeks I call them and ask if they have any seconds in what i need. They tell me try back when they get something back the customer gets parts or a new one and they when they have something recondtiobned goes fast.
So far RCBS customer service has been great hate to hear they are sliping.

[HangFireW8]

So far RCBS customer service has been great hate to hear they are sliping.

RCBS customer service is still great; I just received an entire, old stock, made-in-USA replacement dipper when all I was supposed to get was the head.

The issue is not RCBS customer service; the issue is, the quality of their new outsourced, off-shore OEM's (and RCBS QC).

-HF

[Storydude]

Bet you can't prove that!!!

Bet I can.

----- Original Message ----
From: rcbs tech
To: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX@XXXXXX
Sent: Wednesday, January 3, 2007 6:16:36 PM
Subject: RE: rcbs.com - Ask RCBS Form

Thank you for contacting RCBS with your concern. Most of our products
are still produced right here in our factory in Oroville CA. However,
we do purchase some items from China or other countries around the
world. Any items we source outside of our operation are closely
monitored to insure they meet our quality expectations. The only reason
we choose certain items to be produced over seas is to provide our
customers with the best possible products for the lowest possible cost,
or in other words, to give you the best value for your hard earned
dollars.

It is important for us to here from our customers and we appreciate you
taking the time to provide us with your input.



Cast in China, machined in the USA is still Made in China.

[The Double D]

Bet I can.

----- Original Message ----
From: rcbs tech
To: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX@XXXXXX
Sent: Wednesday, January 3, 2007 6:16:36 PM
Subject: RE: rcbs.com - Ask RCBS Form

Thank you for contacting RCBS with your concern. Most of our products
are still produced right here in our factory in Oroville CA. However,
we do purchase some items from China or other countries around the
world. Any items we source outside of our operation are closely
monitored to insure they meet our quality expectations. The only reason
we choose certain items to be produced over seas is to provide our
customers with the best possible products for the lowest possible cost,
or in other words, to give you the best value for your hard earned
dollars.

It is important for us to here from our customers and we appreciate you
taking the time to provide us with your input.



Cast in China, machined in the USA is still Made in China.

Some items not all items. When you say RCBS made in China you just reinforce what a lot of people say about the internet---no credibility.

Customs is charged with enforcing the marking rules on imported merchandise coming in to the U.S.

In my 19 years as a Customs Officer I inspected a lot of cargo for compliance with the Marking law.

Items coming in to be sold in the U.S. must be clearly and conspiciously mark as to country of origin.

If an item was coming in to be assembled into another item, like electronics to going in a computer, then the finished product would have be marked assembled with parts from xyz country. Look at the back of your computer.

If the item coming in was to under go a substantial change and become some other item like steel wire made into nails or screws, the nails or screws wouldn't have to be marked.

A loading press casting coming in from foreign for final machining and assembly would have to be marked with the country where cast. Even though the press casting would have under go final machining and paint the final product has not under gone a substantial change in charactoristics and is still a press. The press after maching and paint would still have to be marked with country of origin as would the container in which it is sold.

The U.S. is one of the few countries in the world that has such a law and this law is agressively enforced.

Here is the answer I got from RCBS about whether the Rockchucker press is imported or made in the US.


-----Original Message-----
From: ddgofer@hotmail.com (ddgofer@hotmail.com) [mailto:ddgofer@hotmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2010 8:46 AM
To: rcbs tech
Subject: rcbs.com - Ask RCBS Form


Douglas Dickens
ddgofer@hotmail.com (ddgofer@hotmail.com)
Cut Bank MT 59427


http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?155876-Press-for-reloading (http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?155876-Press-for-reloading)

Are Rock Chucker presses made in china?

Douglas

RE: rcbs.com - Ask RCBS Form‏
From:<IMG style="DISPLAY: none" id=P___1698649950 webimdisplayStyle="inline"> rcbs tech (rcbs.tech@ATK.COM) http://gfx2.hotmail.com/mail/w4/pr01/ltr/i_yellowshield.gifYou may not know this sender.Mark as safe (http://javascript<b></b>:;)|Mark as junk (http://javascript<b></b>:;)Sent:Mon 2/01/10 9:13 AMTo: ddgofer@hotmail.com (ddgofer@hotmail.com)


HI Douglas, They're made in California.

Thank you,

Technicial Services/Sam
RCBS Operation
605 Oro Dam Blvd.
Oroville, CA 95965
(800) 533-5000
Monday-Thursday 6:30 am, 4:00 pm

[Storydude]

funny, I see no foundry at RCBS's address.
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=605+Oro+Dam+Blvd.%0D%0AOroville,+CA+95965&oe=UTF-8&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=605+Oro+Dam+Blvd+W,+Oroville,+Butte,+Califor nia+95965&gl=us&ei=SqB5S7qGGoql8AaEwbz0CQ&ved=0CAgQ8gEwAA&ll=39.497931,-121.567658&spn=0.002355,0.004115&t=h&z=18

[Storydude]

But hey, what does it matter. My new RCBS 505 scale says Made in Mexico on it, My Charge master says Made in china on it....

[The Double D]

Yeah but Mexico isn't china.

Oh no, now it's not made in Oroville.

[Storydude]

Might as well be China.

Not made in USA=Not made in USA. Matters not if it's made in Canada or Outer Botswana.

I still want to know how Harley can say "Made in america" when I've PERSONALLY seen with my own eyes CRATES of Made in China Parts going to a LARGE Chrome plating shop in PA...for Harley.

Maybe RCBS takes the same Convluted approach to determining "Made in america" status.

Put a handle on here..Made in America.
Put a coat of paint on it here..Made in America.
tighten a screw...Made in America.

[Changeling]

Bet you can't prove that!!!

I'm not going to try. You can call RCBS and let us all know what they say if you really need the info..

I just looked at a RCBS 255-SWC mold I bought in December from Green Top, they have a large turnover of merchandise. On the bottom of the box it says "Made in the USA".

[jdgabbard]

I don't know whether or not ALL of their stuff is made elsewhere. But I will say, I've got a 9mm die set that is clearly VERY well made, from the early 90s. And a 38/357 die set from 2007 that is MODERATELY well done. Its perfectly usable, however its clearly nothing compared to their older stuff. But you know what, ever single thing I own that says "Lyman" on it says right next to it "Middlefield, Conn USA" with no markings saying "Made in China" or any other third world arm pit. Except for my Lyman ladle, it doesnt have any information on it... I know because I still haven't ever used it...

[GLL]

Does anyone know why these holes are in the sides of the Rowell #1 bottom pour “tube” ?
My #4 has it one one side only? My #8 has none !

Jerry

http://www.fototime.com/4F14A65D13DA01A/orig.jpg

[Lloyd Smale]

those little chinese guys must still do a better job then those guys in red from wisconson. Now theres some **** that looks like it was made in a preschool craft class.

[c.robertson]

I have been using RCBS product since 1967. On the extremely rare occassion that I have had a complaint, RCBS has been on-the-spot to make good on the product, sometimes when breakage was MY fault.
I have an RCBS lead dipper and could not be more happy with it. Spout, bowl, handle & shaft are all just fine. NOWHERE does it say 'Made in China.'
While in many cases it is extremeyl difficult to find "Made In America" products, at least we can all TRY. If you do not at least TRY to buy American products, don't whine and complain when 'Made in China' product does not live up to expectations.
Buying China the cunsumer gets what they deserve.

[Storydude]

I have been using RCBS product since 1967. On the extremely rare occassion that I have had a complaint, RCBS has been on-the-spot to make good on the product, sometimes when breakage was MY fault.
I have an RCBS lead dipper and could not be more happy with it. Spout, bowl, handle & shaft are all just fine. NOWHERE does it say 'Made in China.'
While in many cases it is extremeyl difficult to find "Made In America" products, at least we can all TRY. If you do not at least TRY to buy American products, don't whine and complain when 'Made in China' product does not live up to expectations.
Buying China the cunsumer gets what they deserve.

I'll bet my house your TV, if under 15 years old, Was made, in part, in China.
I"ll make that same bet on the new spark plugs you bought for your car, your Washing machine, Fridge, or Lightbulbs.

[c.robertson]

Storydude,
I know you are absolutely right about that. It is near impossible to find American made products without Chinese parts of some type included or exclusively. But we must TRY to buy American when possible.

[2shot]

Redding Made in U.S.A. and customer service second to none. If the box aint flyin the US flag I aint buyin it. when it comes to reloading equipment.

[Storydude]

Storydude,
I know you are absolutely right about that. It is near impossible to find American made products without Chinese parts of some type included or exclusively. But we must TRY to buy American when possible.

I hear you 100%.

:drinks:

[Changeling]

I emailed RCBS as I said I would concerning the mold screws not being included with the mold as people here said they should have been. Without hesitation, RCBS said they would ship out the screws the following day, I'm well satisfied.
Why can't all companies be like this?

GLL I answered your question about the holes, and I saw it in print, but it disappeared!
I've decided to get the RCBS dipper.

[HangFireW8]

I have an RCBS lead dipper and could not be more happy with it. Spout, bowl, handle & shaft are all just fine. NOWHERE does it say 'Made in China.'

Take a look...
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/picture.php?albumid=279&pictureid=2014

-HF

[alamogunr]

Does anyone know why these holes are in the sides of the Rowell #1 bottom pour “tube” ?
My #4 has it one one side only? My #8 has none !

Jerry


My #1 and #2 have two holes, although on the #2, one of the holes is very small. Looks like the mold pattern was a little worn. My #5 is stored elsewhere so I can't check it but I think it has two also, although I can't be sure. I always thought that it just helped the flow of metal. I try not to pour when the melt level in the bowl is getting close to those holes. Would defeat the purpose of "bottom pour".

John
W.TN

[c.robertson]

Quick follow-up. I did not have the box the RCBS dipper came in. I was stating what was NOT on the dipper itself. I paid $10.00 for it at the MVACA Winter Gun Show in Kansas City. It was new and unused. The seller had a number of casting items for 1/2 and less under retail price.
That said, I just took delivery of an RCBS Lube-A-Matic sizer yesterday, 22-Feb., and it DID say Made in USA on the box.

[Changeling]

Yea that Changeling is crazy, When he asks a question he actually thinks he is going to get an answer associated with his question , stupid idiot!!!!!!!!!!