.41 Lc

[robertbank]

Well I have decided to try loading my old 41 LC with 19 gr FFg Black powder under 195 gr soft lead boolit.

I have never used Black Powder so I need some heads up.

Going to use magnum primers.
Told so soak brass in sopey water as they fall from the gun to make clean up easier.

How about the gun? I understand it will be quite dirty. Best way to clean?

I assume a soft lube is in order and I figured I would go with felix lube. I will be casting boolits out of almost pure lead as I will be doing the hollow base boolit. I will also be shooting some heel base boolits and will use either paste wax or lees lube on the exterior of the boolit for lubrication. The heel base boolits have a scrapper grove so it will be interesting if the idea of a scrapper groove really works or not.

While the .41LC was never a target round accuracy I am told can be improved somewhat by using black powder over say bullseye.

Take Care

[13Echo]

fMake sure the case is full of powder, even compressed a bit. Use lead-tin of about 30 or 20:1 for the bullet. Using the bullet to compress the powder more than a smidge will deform the bullet. Decap the fired cases and into soapy water as soon as you can after shooting - be sure to scrub out the insides with a brush when you wash them clean later. After they dry they can be reloaded, they'll look ugly but are usable. Lubes for black powder generally do best if they are all natural (organic?), that is no petroleum based ingredients such as mineral (baby) oil. If you make your Felix with peanut oil instead of baby oil it should do well, other wise try 3:2:1 of beeswax, peanut oil (olive oil, jojoba oil, etc), lanolin. 1:1 of beeswax and olive oil is recommended by Wolf for the Springfield and should work also. there are many more recipes out there. Clean up the barrel and cylinder with water, or water with vinegar or any of a number of water containing concoctions - basically water dissolves the fouling and works fine all by itself. You will need to take the cylinder out at a minimum and someday will need to clean out the lockwork. Wipe down the rest of the pistol to remove fouling. Be sure to get it out of all the cracks and crevices - Q-tips are handy. Dry thoroughly, perhaps use a water displacing oil to get the last bit out of the barrel, and oil and reassemble. Check the next day for rust. Actually a lot easier than it sounds.

Jerry Liles

[Dale53]

I have shot my Ruger .45 Colt Bisley Vaquero a good bit with black powder and Pyrodex. I can get up to 75 shots before the revolver starts to "tie up". Your mmv as each revolver is a bit of a law unto itself.

I use a heavy coat of Rig on the cylinder pivot pin. After shooting, I drop the cases in a milk jug half full of water with a couple of squirts of Dawn dishwashing detergent, preferably AFTER I decap my cases. That will hold the cases until you get home. The long soak will only help. After I get the cases home, I rinse them thoroughly and then, while still wet, drop them in my large Dillon vibratory tumbler with corn cob tumbling media and Dillon's polish. After just a few minutes they are clean and sparkling.

Immediately after shooting the revolver, I remove the cylinder, and use Friendship Speed Juice to clean the barrel and all visible crud from the revolver, and cylinder. I then dry carefully, and liberally apply Ed's Red inside and out (without dismantling the revolver). I leave a slight coat of Ed's Red on and in the revolver. A couple of days later, I run Ed's Red in and over the revolver again. Almost as fast to do it as telling about it.

The competition guys at Friendship also remove the grips and slosh the whole revolver in K-1 Kerosene to both clean and lubricate the inside of the revolver. I personally do not do this but those guys shoot a LOT and it is hard to argue with their success.

Mike Venturino's book on the Colt Revolvers has lots of really good information on loading with black powder.

You need a GOOD black powder lube on the bullets - I use slightly modified Emmert's lube. I have won a good number of black powder matches (Cowboy style AND bullseye) with these methods.

Dale53

[Wayne Smith]

One head's up, I think Robert is shooting a Army/Navy model double action, cylinder on crane, as I am. I don't have the hollow base mould yet, it's on my list.

Robert, good advice so far. You don't need mag primers. I shoot my 44-40 fine with regular primers, and the cases aren't that far off, with the .41 being, I think, slightly smaller. If you use Goex powder don't be afraid to compress, I load my 44-40 to the brim and compress the length of the bullet in the case. You can get compression dies from BuffaloArms.com, I turned (wood lathe) one to fit my arbor press. If you use Swiss or 777 or Pyrodex fill to just above the base of the bullet and seat the bullet. The little compression you need will be done while seating the bullet and shouldn't distort the bullet. If you distort the bullet back off your powder amount a tad until the bullet doesn't distort.

Plain water, hot water, or hot soapy water is all you will need to clean. Don't be afraid to take the grips off and place in a 200 degree oven after cleaning to ensure dryness.

BP is fun and impressive when shot in a 'modern' revolver. People don't expect it!

[robertbank]

Terrific! You guys have got me moving in the right direction. Yup Wayne you remembered I have the Navy Model d/d 1898 with the long flutes. I am going with the HB bullet for my first loads. Now I know why my Gand-dad used bear grease for lubricant. Unfotunately bear grease is pretty scarce in the food section of Wal Mart or Safeways (wish the bears were as scarce might be a corrolation there no bear grease/lots of bears). Project starts tomorrow and should be good to go by mid-next week. Will report back.

Take Care

Bob

[Hackleback]

You did not say what type of boolit you are using. If I remember correctly, the 41 LC uses a heeled bullet(??) so you might need a mould specific to this round. I will others that know more on the subject chime in.

[Ranch Dog]

I just sent a early Colt pistol to my deceased spouse's daughter to save for one of her three sons. This pistol belonged to my spouse's grandfather and was used as a service weapon while he was a deputy in King County, WA. It came to me with a good supply of period ammo (smokeless) but I wanted it to remain on that side of the family.

While it was in my possession, I did manage to slip up on two small feral hogs that where snoozing under a Live Oak tree in some 95+ heat and shot them both in the head before they knew what was happening! That ammo had the 195-grain heeled boolit.

Not to rob the thread... but I do have a early Lee Loader for the 41 Long Colt that I would sell for $50 plus the shipping. PM me if you are interested.

[Wayne Smith]

Robert

I forgot cartridge cleaning. Thats the problematic part. As soon as I shoot them they go in a plastic container of soapy water. When I get home the cases and some of the water go in my vibrator with ceramic beads I got from Buffalo Arms - I think 3mm diameter. This cleans the residue and salts from the brass. They get dumped out, cases taken out, rinsed, and transferred to the Walnut shell media for drying and polishing. Then I decap and resize and reload.

Michael, does that Lee Loader set have a provision for crimping heeled bullets? buckshot and I have been having conversations about how to do this in a die without any current solution.

[montana_charlie]

Then I decap and resize and reload.
Wayne,
You soak, vibrate, rinse, and tumble dry. And...after all of that...THEN you decap?
Is there not crud in the primer pockets?
CM

[wills]

I don’t shoot a peestol, but I decap, drop the cases in a jug of water & dishwashing soap till I get home, then rinse, clean them with a nylon bore brush chucked in a electric drill, and put the wet cases in a vibratory tumbler with walnut media. Works fine, if you don’t let the cases sit around a few days soaking.

[Wayne Smith]

Wayne,
You soak, vibrate, rinse, and tumble dry. And...after all of that...THEN you decap?
Is there not crud in the primer pockets?
CM

RCBS and Lyman and others make a neat little tool called a primer pocket cleaner, and I bought one back when I was 19 or so and didn't know any better. A properly sized screwdriver works just as well. Still have it, though.

If I deprime first I get walnut media in the ignition hole, and have to punch that out. It's easier to clean first and then decap and clean which ever primer pockets need it. It's not often they do. I get media in >90% of the ignition holes.

That is the routine I use with all the cases i shoot BP in. Smokeless cases get tumbled first and then deprimed, too. Same reason.

[montana_charlie]

If I deprime first I get walnut media in the ignition hole, and have to punch that out.
A logical reason for using your sequence of events. Surprising that so many others recommend depriming first.

I use ultrasonic to clean cases, so the issue doesn't arise for me.
CM

[13Echo]

I deprime first because I want to make darn sure all the black powder fouling is washed out of the primer pockets. I use a brush to clean the insides and check the pockets. I also deprime any case used with smokeless before tumbling. I prime with the Lee hand held so I can again inspect every case neck and primer pocket. It is no effort to flick out any walnut media in the flash hole and I'm certain the pockets are clean and the case necks aren't cracked. That's how I do it and why I do it that way.

Jerry Liles

[robertbank]

Well I don't have one but a friend of mine in Arkansas made a tool that works pretty good. He bored out a hole about .386 in a pair of lineman pliers. Works great. Says he is think ing of a way to make a collet that will do the job better. He has a talent for that sort of thing.

My crimping tool works pretty good.

Take Care

Bob

[Ranch Dog]

Michael, does that Lee Loader set have a provision for crimping heeled bullets? buckshot and I have been having conversations about how to do this in a die without any current solution.

I'm pretty sure it does but haven't actually used it in that I had so much factory ammo and was trying to generate brass. I initially talked with Lee about a custom set of dies and they told me that they couldn't do it with their dies because of the heeled bullets needs. He suggested I try to find their Loader kit, they didn't make many, and it would load the ammo. I did that and in about 3 years only saw one other in Loader in 41LC

I'm traveling the next couple of days, but will take pictures of the various components, and PM you and Buckshot with the images.

[BAGTIC]

What brand cartridge cases do all you .41 Long Colt shooters use? Is there anything readily available cheaper than Starline? I can't figure why Starline .41 Long Colt brass cost 2-3 times as much as any other pistol caliber, even more than many rifle calibers.

[robertbank]

I fireform cases using .38 spl cases. The steps are

1. Using a small propane torch I anneal the case bring the case to a brown colour - try to avoid going cherry red. Immediately drop cases into water

2. I now lube the case like you would for rifle. Insert the case in your press and expand the neck using your sizing die down about 1/2"

3. Load round and after firing you end up with a case that looks like an inverted old style milk bottle.

The .38 spl. rim is about the same size diameter as the .41LC with a much deeper rim. This method works and is much cheaper than buying new brass. I don't shoot my gun all that much but fire forming cases makes the whole process affordable. If you load .41LC then you know it is a labour of love.

Take Care

[13Echo]

I've had contact with the .41 LC only once. A professor of pathology had me go through a collection of bullets he had recovered at autopsy when he did forensics. One of them was from a .41LC recovered from a homicide in Virginia sometime in the 1960s. It still had black powder residue smudging the base.

Jerry Liles

[jerdog53]

Well I am glad I have been doing it right all along.

I take it that the 41 mag shortened up will not work at all?

[robertbank]

Dimensionally totally different cases. The only thing they share is part of the name. The .41LC shoots a bullet .386 in diameter.

Bob

[Ranch Dog]

I checked out the Lee Loader I have in 41LC. No difference in bullet crimping than any of the other Lee Kits. There just doesn't seem to be many of these kits around.

[Wayne Smith]

Michael,

So it will smooth out the case to the diameter of the bullet, around .405" if I remember right. Essentially a taper crimp but not a real crimp. Am I right so far?

[robertbank]

Wayne right now I am using a pair of lineman pliars to crimp my heel base bullets with. My friend in Arkansas bored a hole in the jaws to just over .386. All the jaws do is add a littl tension to the case. I apply the tension oh about 1/16th of an inch below the mouth of the case. Just enough to hold the bullet. Seems to work ok. I have some original factory heel based bullets in .41lc and that is how they are crimped.

Take Care

Bob

[robertbank]

Just was re-reading this thread before I get to my black powder loading. I have three Lyman molds. Two are heel based and the third is the hollow base which is the bullet I will use for my black powder loadings. I am told the skirt will seal the bore better using black powder. Accuracy is will improve over using smokeless powder.

I'll post results once I am done. This is a slow labour of love.

Take Care

Bob

[mazo kid]

So far, I haver only loaded Lyman and Rapine hollow base boolits. However, I do have a Herter's heeled base mould that I have not tried as yet. Emery

[red hooker]

You did not say what type of boolit you are using. If I remember correctly, the 41 LC uses a heeled bullet(??) so you might need a mould specific to this round. I will others that know more on the subject chime in.

EARLY guns/ammo used heel base bullet, about .406-.408". About mid-1890s, changed to hollow-base .386" outside-lubed bullet in .401-.403" barrel. This was apparently a compromise size to allow use of existing stocks of .408 ammo without toomuch squeezing down, and the new hollow-base ammo without too much upsetting. Probably, as this is same dim's as .38-40, also meant one less set of tooling to keep on hand.