1895 cowboy recoi and stocks

[totallycustom]

I have an 1895 cowboy rifle and am dieing when I shoot it. I need to figure out a way to shoot this thing without killing myself and keeping the rifle looking as good or better, i.e. no rubber recoil pads.

Has anyone had experience with Treebone carving stocks? They have a larger shotgunbutt type stock to spread the load out a little more. It is supposed to help a little. (Maybe)

I am going to cut my load down a little, my reloads are at about 1500 fps with H331. The Remington express loads are a little better.

Another factor that I am dealing with is having to learn to shoot left handed I have recently lost my complete vision in my right eye. So I am wondering if my technique is bad shooting left handed.

What have you guys done? Are your 1895 cowboy rifles a little hard to shoot? Maybe its just me.

[doubs43]

I use a 300 grain RCBS gas check mold that drops at about 315 grains. It's quite accurate in my 1895 CB Marlin and you can load it for accuracy without heavy recoil.

If you're shooting from a bench, recoil will seem heavier than offhand or over crossed sticks.

[SilverBow]

The benches and rests at my range are a poor fit for me and I was experiencing fairly bad bruising after 20+ rounds of 35 Rem (considerably less recoil than your 45-70). I too did not want to alter the aesthetics of the rifle, so I opted for a PAST recoil pad that straps onto my shoulder. It's ambidextrous and thin enough that it doesn't affect my hold on the rifle... I love it and highly recommend it to anyone with recoil issues at the range.

[rob45]

I have an 1895 cowboy rifle and am dieing when I shoot it. I need to figure out a way to shoot this thing without killing myself and keeping the rifle looking as good or better, i.e. no rubber recoil pads.

Has anyone had experience with Treebone carving stocks? They have a larger shotgunbutt type stock to spread the load out a little more. It is supposed to help a little. (Maybe)

I am going to cut my load down a little, my reloads are at about 1500 fps with H331. The Remington express loads are a little better.

Another factor that I am dealing with is having to learn to shoot left handed I have recently lost my complete vision in my right eye. So I am wondering if my technique is bad shooting left handed.

What have you guys done? Are your 1895 cowboy rifles a little hard to shoot? Maybe its just me.

Recoil is both subjective and calculated. To put it another way, you have "how the recoil feels", and what the recoil actually is.

Calculated recoil
Actual recoil is calculated. It is a product of force (the energy coming back to you, measured in FPE, how "hard" it's coming back ) and speed (how fast it's coming back, measured in FPS).
Calculated recoil is determined by bullet weight, velocity, the weight of the powder charge, and the weight of the gun. Rather than dissect the recoil formula and provide examples, let me keep things simple for you- lighter bullets, reduced speeds, and a heavier gun are your ways to reduce the actual recoil.

Subjective recoil
Subjective recoil is a measure of how it feels to the shooter. Everyone has different thresholds, so what bothers one person may be a pussycat to another. But the primary factor here is stock design, because it can make the load feel different even if the load is identical to that shot in another gun. If you don't believe me, then take the same loads you shoot in your Cowboy and shoot them in a converted Siamese Mauser. Provided the guns are close in weight, you'll still have a hard time believing you just shot the same load.

The much-beloved classic stock lines on our lever actions were not designed for shooter comfort. They were designed for completely utilitarian purposes- A. the proper cheek weld with iron sights in a standing shooting position, and B. the ability to bring the rifle into action very quickly. Basically the same objectives of a shotgun, but the traditional lever action stock had to be configured so as to mate with the lever mechanism and also be of slim profile for practical portability (such as being carried in a scabbard, whether on horseback or your own back). The shotgun did not have those requirements.

Factory stock dimensions are based upon the "average" body build. Assuming "normal" loads, most people do fine with the factory design until they either alter the sight height (scope the gun), or shoot it from a position other than standing. Doing either one affects where you put your cheek to obtain the proper sight picture. If you have to shift your cheek, then you are also altering exactly which part of your shoulder absorbs the recoil. Call it whatever you want- craning your neck, scrunching up or down, whatever. Your face and shoulder are tied together at the neck, and shifting one will shift the other.

Here are some ways to impact subjective recoil:

1. A recoil pad. The first line of defense, and it usually requires trimming of the stock. The recoil pad works by delaying the impact. All in all, probably the best bang-for-the-buck. I suppose if you wanted to spend the money, you could get an additional buttstock for your gun and have a pad on it, and keep your original stock as-is. Changing the stock merely requires turning a screwdriver.

2. A different stock design. Even pricier than an additional factory spec stock. I have no experience with the Treebone stock you mentioned (I like to make my own stocks), but I can assure you that if it has a "shotgun butt", it will help reduce subjective recoil. The design intentions of such a stock are to spread the recoil on a larger area of your shoulder. Think of it as getting hit with a soccer ball instead of a baseball.

3. Shooter position. As has already been mentioned, shooting from the bench is worse than standing. Even worse is prone. The reason for this is because you are changing the amount of shoulder area in contact with the gun. When shooting while standing, your "shoulder" is the frontal deltoid and part of the pectoralis muscles. As you angle down, less of the pectoralis is available to absorb the blow (depending upon where exactly you're placing the butt). So now you have effectively made the impact area smaller, and it hurts more. At least that's how it has been explained to me.
The best way to counter this is with absorbing material between the gun and your shoulder. Usually that material is in the form of a recoil pad, but if you don't want a pad (or it's still not enough!), then the PAST recoil pad works well. Another option I sometimes have to utilize with really heavy loads is a bag of shot behind the gun. That's pretty awkward, but it allows me to get the heavy work done without getting beat up.

Something I forgot to mention is a mercury recoil suppressor. This is a small steel tube of mercury that fits inside your stock, so it can be used with your factory buttplate. They are made in various sizes and configurations.
These reduce recoil in two ways.
1. First, they obviously add weight. You would be amazed at what adding a pound to your gun will do. But they also make them in smaller sizes, and 8oz. is one of my favorite sizes. Matter of fact, you can get them custom made in any size you want. If you're concerned about adding weight, think of it this way- the weight you add with one of these is usually less than the typical scope and mounts.
2. The real effectiveness of a mercury reducer is due to the physical properties of mercury. The mercury is free to move in the tube (welded steel, so yes, it's safe). Principles of inertia being what they are, the gun comes back quickly while the mercury tends to stay put. Once the gun (rather, the end of the tube) comes back far enough, only then will the mercury begin to move rearward. Moving the mercury requires inertia, so the end result is that you have delayed the recoil impulse. In other words, you have spread the "kick" out over a longer period of time.
I have mercury suppressors in most of my heavy hitters, and they do indeed work.
My favorite source for these is C & H Research out of Lewis, KS.
http://www.mercuryrecoil.com/index.htm#top


In summary, here are your options to reduce recoil:
1. Shoot a lighter bullet.
2. Shoot a lighter load, meaning less velocity.
3. Somehow make the gun heavier. Lead in the stock is the oldest trick.
4. Recoil pad.
5. Wider buttstock.
6. PAST pad, heavy clothing, etc. Also the shot bag trick.
7. Mercury suppressor.

#'s 4,5, and 6 help with recoil at the shoulder, not the cheek. If you're having bruised cheekbones, you need to investigate comb design. Most people take care of that with a strap-on cheekpiece, but you're probably not having a big problem there; at least you didn't mention it.
Choose the method most applicable to your situation.
There are a few other ways, such as the inertia pad systems, but they are very expensive and will make your gun so ugly as to immediately get you banned from this site.:kidding:

Hope this helps you out.
Good Luck.

BTW, welcome to the forum. Jump in and get your feet wet.[smilie=s:

[runfiverun]

as this is a new sensation to your left side i'd start over with a 22 or a 357 lever gun and rework the basics.

[Firebricker]

Some guys say a pistol grip stock is easier on the shoulder. If you ever go that route I would glad do a parts switch I've been wanting to make my .444 a straight stock. FB

[totallycustom]

I have been shooting my 22 for about the last 9 months since I was doctor ok to be shooting.

I have never shot this gun off of a bench, I know better than that and I never shoot prone. It is just too dang wet in western/coastal WA.

I was shooting standing with a thick Filson wool jacket and vest on. It helped my shoulder a bit, never had any cheek problems. I am not a big guy about 5'9" 155, but this has never stopped me before with this gun, or any other.

The Treebone Carvings stock does indeed have a shotgun style butt. I will also look into getting a mercury recoil reducer.

[NickSS]

I live in WA also so know all about rain and wet especially this winter. Your loads are a little hot for comfort. When I shoot loads that exceed black powder velocities I always use a past recoil shield. This keeps me from flinching. That aside, my most shot load for my cowboy 95 is a 325 gr RCBS FN bullet pushed by 27 gr of AA 5744. This pushes it out at about 1300 fps and is manageable recoil wise from a bench rest. I have shot 50 or more in a sitting. A past recoil shield is a lot cheaper than a new stock and works well. I have fired really stout 45-70 loads (500 gr bullet at 1750 fps) from a H&R handi rifle.

[Four Fingers of Death]

Just a thought, make sure you wear safety glasses, important when booth eyes work, incredibly important if you are down to one eye. I am sorry to hear about you losing your eye, bad deal.

I'd be getting the muscle memory right dry firing at home with snap caps and a dot or pricture of a deer on the wall, etc. Do this very slowly and get the muscles tuned into where the gun needs to be and where your head, etc needs to be, cycling the lever, reloading, etc. Get a half dozen snap caps if you can afford them or make some up. File part of the rim off one so that it does not eject for when you want to practice aiming and cycling the lever. KNock the snap cap out with a cleaning rod when you are finished. This will allow you to throw the gun up to the new shoulder without thinking about it. If you dont practice, you will get confused and have trouble adopting a decent shooting position.

I'd also be working out with a 22 at first. Concentrate on the shooting at first and not the recoil.

I trained myself to shoot left handed so that I can shoo tout of the 4wds window (I'm right handed and our steering wheel is on the right hand side of the car here). It took me forever to get it right, but it does work, if I havent done it for awhile I am pokingmyself in the nose with the rifle, etc.

When you get to shoot the big girl, start with reduced loads and work up, yo umay be ok with it, especially hunting where you only expend a few shots. Sight it in using a bag of lead shot between you and the rifle.

Good luck with it.