Swiss Compression? How much?

[HPT]

Anyone out there with experience using Swiss 1-1/2 FG in a .45-70?

I'm thinking about trying some Swiss 1-1/2 FG in my .45-70. I will need .510" space on top of the .060 LDPE wad for the 540 gr Creedmoor bullet. Just wondering how much Swiss I can get in the case without compressing it too much and approximately what velocity I can expect?

[boommer]

This is a loaded ? Rifle will tell you that.

[Jon K]

I'm using 65 gr Swiss 1 1/2 with .060 wad & PJ 540 gr. Creedmore. Shoots consistant.

Jon

[e15cap]

67 gr works for me

[Boz330]

I don't shoot a 45-70 but I have gotten the best groups with Swiss with .200 compression in 3 different barrels.

Bob

[montana_charlie]

I'm thinking about trying some Swiss 1-1/2 FG in my .45-70.
I'll leave it to those who have actually used Swiss to answer your question.

But, here is something to consider while the answers come in...

What kind of powder(s) have you already tried?
What is it that makes you think you need/want to change to Swiss?
If you think you need to use a 'better' powder, Swiss may be a move in the right direction.

Swiss is said to be denser than Goex.
So, a 65 grain charge of Swiss should leave more room in the case than a 65 grain charge of Goex.
Swiss is said to perform well with less compression than Goex.
(Perhaps that comes from being denser...maybe.)

Goex (or any powder) gets compressed in order to get 'enough' fuel under the bullet. Beyond that, Goex tends to burn 'more efficiently' (less fouling) if compression is up within a certain range.

I have not heard of there being a range of compression where Swiss becomes more efficient. Actually, it's reputation is that it is very efficient with minimal compression. (Perhaps density is causing that, too).

What (some) people do say about the fouling left by Swiss is that it is dry and crusty.

By comparison, the fouling produced by Goex Express (their new line of powder) is described as 'moist'.

I have Goex Cartridge in sufficient quantity to let me shoot for quite a while.
I have developed some good loads, but the fouling is generally pretty dry.
When I reach the point where I want to try something 'expensive', I think I will go for Goex Express, rather than Swiss.

CM

[shooter37]

HPT
I shoot 45/70 BPCR Silhouette using a PJ 540 creedmoor bullet with 68 Gr. Swiss 1 1/2. Most of the guys I shoot with use Swiss 1 1/2 with charges fro 62 to 70 gr. I have backed down to 65 gr. lately as it seems just as accurate and it will take down the 500 meter rams just fine. Swiss was always noted to have accuracy problems when heavily compressed... I haven't found that to be true, but that's just my experience.
Good luck
Al

[HPT]

Hi All,

Thanks for the replies so far, please keep them coming.

Montana Charlie,

I have tried Goex FG, FFG, FFFG, FFG Express, Graf FG, Graf FFG and Swiss FFG in 2 muzzleloaders and .45-70. My best groups were with the Swiss FFG, so I'm hoping the Swiss 1-1/2FG might be even better?

Track of the Wolf was out of 1-1/2 FG when I was there or else I would have bought that. Now I would like to try the Swiss 1-1/2 FG.

[montana_charlie]

Montana Charlie,

I have tried Goex FG, FFG, FFFG, FFG Express, Graf FG, Graf FFG and Swiss FFG in 2 muzzleloaders and .45-70. My best groups were with the Swiss FFG,
Well, you're certainly working from a more informed position than I would be...if I was thinking about Swiss.
CM

[Crash_Corrigan]

I load 102 gr of Swiss #1 under a veggie wad and a 695 Gr Creedmoor boolit in my 50-90 sharps with about .300 compression.

I am getting excellent accuracy and very low ES and average 1250 FPS with only a blowtube between shots. Cleanup is fast and easy with Windex/Vinegar moistened patches and Ballistol when put away.

[Boz330]

I load 102 gr of Swiss #1 under a veggie wad and a 695 Gr Creedmoor boolit in my 50-90 sharps with about .300 compression.

I am getting excellent accuracy and very low ES and average 1250 FPS with only a blowtube between shots. Cleanup is fast and easy with Windex/Vinegar moistened patches and Ballistol when put away.

WOW, 1250fps out of a nearly 700gr slug! That sounds like more fun than I want to have.
I don't remember exactly how much compression I use with my 38-55 with Swiss 2F and a 335gr boolit but it is over .300. There was an article in Black powder Cartridge News or maybe the ASSRA news letter about Swiss and compression. A buddy told me about it and this author said that in his tests that Swiss did well with no compression or above .200.
The little bit of work that I did with Goex, prior to switching to Swiss, I was using anywhere from .350 to .500 to get good results.
I just picked up a case of Swiss last week and it was $500, the last I got was $375 just over a year ago. At that price I think that I'm going to look at a cheaper powder and see if a good load can be worked up. Right now I sure have a lot more time than money. So even if I had to rework each lot I would be ahead. Black Diamond is $250 a case .

Bob

[GuzziRider]

I am shooting a compressed load of 71 grains of Swiss 1.5 in my 45-70 Roller with a 34" barrel. I am using a tapered bullet, 545 grain Gunn 349c. Its a mould that came from NEI quite a few years ago. I compress the load .030" using a compression die. Wads are .030" veg fibre and primers are CCI 200 LR. SPG lube. This is a long bullet at 1.450" and I seat it .417" in the case. It has a dirt scraper type front groove with five grease grooves. I have shot it from 200 to 1k yards in quite a few matches with good results when I do my part. Its a bit of a thumper to shoot prone all day but I prefer it to my 45-110 for the same job. Off the sticks its not bad at all. Many say that Swiss does not compress well but in this load it works fine. As always in this game there are exceptions to all but a few of the common rules of thumb.