Someone help me understand this

[Nate1778]

finally found a decent 9mm round for my 50/50 alloy in a LEE 125g RNF .358 bullet sized to .356. Its out of a Glock 19 (slugged at .355) with aftermarket barrel. Bullets are water dropped and pan lubed in a modified Darr's lube (bullet works flawlessly in my GP100 6").

Now for my question, I have tried every combination and till today could not keep leading at bay. I took some today with 4.2g Unique at a COL of 1.088. Shot strait and had a little umph to it. If I jump to 4.6g lead city. Whats pondering me is this load is light compared to Lee's recommendation of 5.3g at 1.15 COL and Handloads.com load of 6g (for lead) at the same length. If I am leading at 4.6 I can't imagine what 6g would do, not to mention I don't think the gun would handle 6g with the feel of 5.6 I have tried in the past. Unique is easier on the leading than any of the hp38 loads I have tried.

Is it my alloy, is it the water dropping, speed of powder? I am not getting it, my lead won't fly past 4.2g of Unique without leading. I should not be complaining as it is a load that works, but it would seam there should be a bit more play in my load in either direction. Anybody else deal with this issue?

Leading is throughout, not at the breech or at the end. Don't know the alloy hardness other than it is weighed 50/50 WW to pure with the addition of tin for flow.

[gray wolf]

Do the two barrels slugg to the same size?.

[dragonrider]

Why is your COL .062" less than recommended by two sources???
What is the source for the 1.088" COL.???

[Rockchucker]

I too got leading from my 9mm, it slugged at .355 also and sized them to .356. I then tried sizing to .357 and whalaa leading is gone.

[Nate1778]

Sorry, yes both barrels slug at .355. the reason for the shorter round is its as long as the round can be to chamber with that bullet. I nave tried to get several differnent bullet styles to chamber at .357 and have not been able to do so. Maybe I'll size them to .357 and use my crimp die to take them down to where they chamber.

[buck1]

I know the 9mm jumps up in pressure with deeper seated very very fast.

[Nate1778]

That is why I am using the reduced loads, even when I use the TC and RN of the same size at the 1.15 I get the leading at the starting load. Could water quenching the boolit add an opposite effect than what I am tghinking. I have cast a couple and let them air cool, will see if that changes anything.

[HammerMTB]

I have found all the TC style Lee boolits can't be seated out from the ogive much, if any. That's probably the why of your COAL
If it were me I would at least try air cooled. Your alloy may be too hard to obturate.
Then, since Glocks have polygonal rifling, if air cooled won't work, I would get a conventional bbl. I have 2 Glocks, and aftermarket bbls for both. Tried the Wolf, had a bad experience, won't go back. I have Storm Lake, and am happy with 'em. They cost $10 or so more to start with, but satisfaction is priceless..... :bigsmyl2:

[462]

Air cool.

[shooterchris]

I had the same problem with my 38 supers, but sizing them .357 cured it. What type of barrel do you have. KKM Precision barrels love lead. Also Win 231 is a great powder in the 9 under a cb.

P.S. Maybe a stupid question, but 50/50 lino/lead?

[Nate1778]

Using a Storm Lake Barrel. 50/50 is pure lead/wheel weights. Not had any luck with HP38/W231 at all unless I go way under starting load.

[kyle623]

what lube are you using?

[shooterchris]

What do your bullets weigh?

[Nate1778]

Right at 124-125g. Using a Darrs lube recipe with a bit more paraffin to harden it up. lube works flawlessly in my GP100.

[shooterchris]

If you are looking at Modern Reloading by Richard Lee, those loads are way to friggin hot, but you know what they say about opinions. Like buck1 said earlier about pressure, it's really the pressure that is doin the pushing. Have you looked at Lyman's book? It's a little tamer on the load suggestions. Let me know.....I'm looking at the 9 page right now.

[shooterchris]

Yeah, Lyman is suggesting a starting load of 4.0 and a max of 5.0 with Unique for a 120gr CB. Lee is too hot. 4.0 of unique is listing 1013 fps velocity. I think your first load was about right.

[Nate1778]

Chris that is helpful no doubt, I mean the 4.2 felt like a good healthy round, not self defense but certainly not a powder puff either. I thought I cannot push these much higher, and yes its Lees manual. Any recommendations for HP38 in that Lyman. I was able to keep it from leading in the 3.4g range but they were not the most accurate.

I am also lubing up as we speak some air cooled and will give those a go on Thursday and see how they do.

[shooterchris]

No suggestions for the 38, but I am a fan of the 231, use it in everything from 9 to 45 with great results. For example Lyman lists 3.0-4.1 of 231 with a velocity of 1010fps and a CUP of 20,000. the 4 grains of Unique have a pressure of 26,500. Less powder, lower pressure and very close velocity. 231 I have found is much more efficient, not that I dislike unique, I love unique in a 44, but in all of my standard pistol loads i prefer 231 or bullseye depending on the load. In my personal experience 231 is a bit cleaner than the Unique. I would recommend the Lyman manual to anyone in the market for a loading manual. It has much more info for cast bullets.

[JIMinPHX]

My first thought was to suggest using those boolits air cooled. Then I got to the part about the whole barrel being leaded & not just the throat. If the whole barrel is leading, that usually points to a lubrication failure.

I would try a different lube first.
I would try air cooled boolits second.
I would try 3 grains of Bullseye with the air cooled boolit third. That load might be a bit weak & it might not cycle your action, but it might tell you a few things. Look to see if your leading has disappeared or if it is in a different area.

Also, I would check to see what the leading looks like after just a few shots. Does it start out just near the throat & then show up further down the barrel after a lot of shooting? Or does the whole barrel get leaded up right from the beginning?

[duhbob]

Two questions:
1. can a light crimp of .002 to .003 be enough to strip the lube off the side of the LEE cast 124grain TC bullet? 2. My XD 9mm 5 inch barrel slugged at .354 and my finished un-sized bullet diameter is .356! but every one I ran through the sizing die came down to .355.
Should I size or not? I have had the same leading troubles as you using HP38 even in supremely low loads i.e. 3.4 gr.
p.s. my avatar IS the boolit in question.

[Nate1778]

Two questions:
1. can a light crimp of .002 to .003 be enough to strip the lube off the side of the LEE cast 124grain TC bullet? 2. My XD 9mm 5 inch barrel slugged at .354 and my finished un-sized bullet diameter is .356! but every one I ran through the sizing die came down to .355.
Should I size or not? I have had the same leading troubles as you using HP38 even in supremely low loads i.e. 3.4 gr.
p.s. my avatar IS the boolit in question.




No, crimping the bullet should not remove any lube. I would try to load a dummy round as cast and see if it chambers, if it does I would shoot them as cast. Mine has to be sized to .356 to chamber, I am going to try .357 again to see but I feel I have been down that road. My only suggestion would be to move to a slower powder, that's what I have done and it seams to be improving. I have used the bullet you are using but don't have my loads in front of me. I want to say I was able to push 3.6g of HP38 and got little to no leading but accuracy was not the greatest. When I jumped to 3.8, accuracy went up but so did the leading. It was not a substantial amount but noticeable. Please keep in mind those loads are off the top of my head and I do not have my load notes in front of me.


As far as lube, this combo works flawlessly in my GP100 with no leading at all. That's traveling down a 6" barrel and moving pretty good, I want to say 4.6g of HP38. As a matter of fact its my go to load. Why would lube fail in one caliber with a shorter barrel and not in a barrel with a longer length?

[JIMinPHX]

As far as lube, this combo works flawlessly in my GP100 with no leading at all.

I have a rifle load that works well in a Marlin, but fouls the living daylights out of a rifle with a chrome bore. Different barrels may have different surface finishes or may be made out of slightly different alloys. They may require different lubes. It might be worth trying.

[duhbob]

Nate 1778
The .356 dia. as-cast drops easily into the chamber. I won't re size them at this step. But I will for certain use a slower powder. I have a lb. of AA#7 and a start load of 7grains aughta get a good result. We shall see.
BTW, did you seat your Lee 124gr far enough to cover the top groove? I found it necessary to throw away the book regarding OAL.

[mpmarty]

In the revolver as the boolit jumps the gap the pressure blows lube down the barrel in front of it and prevents the leading??[smilie=6:

[JIMinPHX]

...BTW, did you seat your Lee 124gr far enough to cover the top groove? I found it necessary to throw away the book regarding OAL.

In a single shot rifle with a long throat, I have seated boolits far out past the book recommended COAL with good results. With one boolit design, I left the top lube groove exposed & only filled the bottom lube groove with lube. Using another design of boolit in that same gun, I lubed all grooves with a very hard lube & left all lube grooves exposed above the case neck. Both shot well. I haven't tried that trick with a pistol.

[Nate1778]

Nate 1778
The .356 dia. as-cast drops easily into the chamber. I won't re size them at this step. But I will for certain use a slower powder. I have a lb. of AA#7 and a start load of 7grains aughta get a good result. We shall see.
BTW, did you seat your Lee 124gr far enough to cover the top groove? I found it necessary to throw away the book regarding OAL.



I beleive the longest I could go with that bullet in my chamber was 1.14, which was not far off the goal of 1.15. I have used AA#7 in the past and it works, I did notice a lot of fire flies coming out of the barrel, and a fairly substantial muzzle flash. I as well am starting to think Lee is a bit hot in this category. I would start a load in the high fives and work through the six's and see how they do. I seam to remember when I used the recommended 7g I did get leading, once again I am here at work and don't have my notes in front of me. Be interested in hearing your results.

[gasboffer]

Using a Storm Lake Barrel. 50/50 is pure lead/wheel weights. Not had any luck with HP38/W231 at all unless I go way under starting load.

If I understand you, you're using 50% lead and 50% wheelweights. That's pretty soft. Try just the wheelweights
clyde

[duhbob]

Sorry to take so long to reply. I'm from "WHO DAT Nation" area and with family and pals commitments I had to ease up on shooting for a few days. GO SAINTS!

BUT, good results using AA#7. I went to the AA because HP38 had my boolits tumbling really bad, from short to long distances from paper. The stock barrel (5" XD tactical) just hates HP38/Win231, I guess, even with my lightest loads i.e 3.4 grains behind the 124gr wheel weight cast.
On the other hand the Accurate7 worked very well with no lead build up just under7.0 grains and very light leading at 7.7 grains of powder. And NO tumble. All my strikes went in straight. If the 7 grain load chronographs at minimum power factor for USPSA, I believe I found the right set-up for my 9mm.:smile:

[duhbob]

Sorry to take so long to reply. I'm from "WHO DAT Nation" area and with family and pals commitments I had to ease up on shooting for a few days. GO SAINTS!

BUT, good results using AA#7. I went to the AA because HP38 had my boolits tumbling really bad, from short to long distances from paper. The stock barrel (5" XD tactical) just hates HP38/Win231, I guess, even with my lightest loads i.e 3.4 grains behind the 124gr wheel weight cast.
On the other hand the Accurate7 worked very well with no lead build up just under7.0 grains and very light leading at 7.7 grains of powder. And NO tumble. All my strikes went in straight.No more tumbling.
If the 7 grain load chronographs at minimum power factor for USPSA, I believe I found the right set-up for my 9mm.:smile:

bump please

[Nate1778]

That's good to know, I may have to break out the #7 and see what results I get. I am trying the tumble lube TC next as I am able to chamber .357. I'll give it a go and see how it does but break the #7 out as well and see how that does.