Shotshell buffer alternative.

[JeffinNZ]

Team.

I would like to try some shotshell buffer in my Carcano after following the HV 6.5 Swede thread. Thing is the chances of finding said in NZ are akin to NIL.

What else could I use? I am burning H4350 26-29gr so about 2/3 case full. I am very conscience of the reduction from case body to 6.5 neck.

Couscous? Polenta?

[longbow]

Jeff:

While it does draw criticism, I have been using Cream 'O Wheat as filler in my .303. So far no problems and several benefits.

The only commercial fillers/buffers I am aware of are Puff-Lon:

http://www.pufflon.com/

and the various shotgun buffers which are plastics ~ apparently some are ground and some are little spheres.

So far I have found no problems using Cream 'O Wheat but there are people who say if rounds are left loaded for extended periods, the Cream 'O Wheat (or other cereal fillers) can clump and harden possibly causing high pressures.

Someone from downunder (I think) posted that Cream 'O Wheat isn't available so he used semolina. I have also tried corn meal but found it did not give as good results as COW. David Southall (article in .303british.com below) also advised me of this.

There is some concern about moisture in the Cream 'O Wheat causing problems with the powder or Cream 'O Wheat absorbing moisture form the powder changing burn rate. I can't say for sure but so far I have not noticed any issues at all.

I will be loading some up some rounds with Cream 'O Wheat filler and leaving them outside for a year or so to check to see what happens when I pull boolits after.

I think shotgun buffer would be a better choice if available because it will be more or less inert with regards to the powder. However, if it is not available one has to make do or at least try to make do.

The 6.5 has a more pronounced neck and shoulder than .303 but I bet if you start with a low powder charge and work up you will have no problems. Pressures will increase with filler versus without but working up slowly should give indications of increasing pressure.

Here are a couple of articles in case you have not seen them. One for .308 with PSB buffer and one for .303 with Cream 'O Wheat:

http://www.surplusrifle.com/shooting/castfiller/index.asp
http://www.303british.com/id37.html

So far I have been loading a Lyman 314299 over a variety of powders ~ Unique, IMR4227, IMR4198, IMR4895 and IMR4064 topped off with filler. I started with a low charge weight for each powder and worked up.

Currently I am getting good results with 19 grs. of IMR4227, COW filler and the 314299 with no gas check. This is obviously not a high velocity long range load like what is being worked on for the 6.5 Swede but it is working so I will be trying other powders and looking for stouter loads as well. I also plan to order some shotgun buffer to try to follow closer to Larry's 6.5 Swede results.

My view is that as long as sound and careful reloading practices are followed the filler will present no problems. I offer this from my experiences to date FWIW.

Longbow

[Nrut]

Jeff,
Why not order the proper filler from were ever 45 2.1 or Starmetal order theirs?
Buffer is not a controlled item subject to export regulations.

[JeffinNZ]

LONGBOW: Thanks for the info.
NRUT: Simply a factor of cost, foreign exchange and post would kill it.

[barrabruce]

I tried semolia...Hmmmm..
Still eating it.
what I did was use about 2 grns of powder in a 30-30 case and filled the rest with semolina.
I wanted the bullet to stick in the riffling to see if /how it may upset in the throat etc.
The bullet didn't move. Hmmm.
Pulled the bullet and the Semolina had compacted into a hard mass that I had to dig out like plaster.
The case loaded the same with out filler the bullet didn't do much better either for the record.
I came to a quick and sudden realiseation that this idea was purely folley and caughting with danger.
I'm not saying that it may or may not be any good with a pinch or two over a 3/4 full case but no way I'm gunna try a near case full again.

As far as "cream of wheat"is here in the better end of the globe ....has me stumped too.

How would dacron go ??? I just use that for my reduced loads in 30-30 and leave the rest alone.
I can't find none of that shotgun filler stuff either..nor .410 wads..nor...mostly anthing else for that matter....unless I send out for and buy 400x as much as I ever could need + post.

Barra
Edit it wern't semolina.. I thought it a bit hard and rocky to try..It was using Cous Cous the stuff that you add water and end up with stuff like soggy bread crumbs.

[geargnasher]

Team.

I would like to try some shotshell buffer in my Carcano after following the HV 6.5 Swede thread. Thing is the chances of finding said in NZ are akin to NIL.

What else could I use? I am burning H4350 26-29gr so about 2/3 case full. I am very conscience of the reduction from case body to 6.5 neck.

Couscous? Polenta?

Jeff, in the case of the Swede the filler is used for achieving high-velocity accuracy in military guns. Not just any filler will do, and I suspect the same with the Carcano. The filler that 45 2.1 and Starmetal are using is BPI shotshell buffer which is like tiny shavings, it will not flow at all, rather acts like dry powdered snow. This characteristic is said to make it pack into a solid plastic mass behind the boolit creating a gentle launch and protecting the boolit all the way out of the muzzle. If too much is used (filler extending much below case shoulder) it can create potentially serious pressure issues. While polyester fiberfill (Dacron) can help, it may not get you where you want to be, same with the spherical granular fillers.

As for COW and other organics, the problem is that they absorb moisture and INCREASE IN VOLUME DRASTICALLY creating a highly COMPRESSED CHARGE, there is the danger. Keep 'em dry, no problem.

Gear

[303Guy]

Is cotton wool out the question? (Apart from the danger of setting the countryside on fire! And that doesn't always happen). Wool would burn up and not protect the boolit base just like Dacron. I'm not suggesting jumping in at the deep end and trying it! From what I've seen, cotton wool doesn't actually protect the boolit base much but if the boolit base is sticky (from lube) the cotton wool sticks to it right into the boolit trap.

[JeffinNZ]

Thanks guys. I have ordered some of the BPI original buffer.

[Jim]

Is cotton wool out the question?.....


I tried that a coupla' years back. Apparently(at least, for me) it doesn't burn up in launch. Every shot produced "snow" about 10 ft. out the barrel.

[Mk42gunner]

For you guys that are on the other side of the globe, I believe Cream of Wheat is also known as farina.


Robert

[ihmsakiwi]

Now i remember that from my childhood. Peter.

[Nora]

I played around with fillers for my Carcano. Though I was using Unique. The results that I came up with is that this cartridge does (in my rifle) like a tad bit of filler. I shot several 10 shot groups with no fill, .5, 1, and 1.5 gn of polly fluff pillow stuffing. Best results were with .5 gn. The main draw back was to sit and measure for each round. I'd have to dig threw my notes to find how much better of a group it shot. If I was to shoot a match, it would be worth doing, but not for just normal shooting in my case. At the same time it was fun to actually see that it did make a difference. Perhaps polly fluff may be what your looking for. It's plenty cheap. Especially if your wife, mother or someone you know does a bit of sewing and already has a some on hand.

Nora

[dualsport]

I have experimented with using both dacron and COW together in the 30-06. 4831, then dacron, then COW to create a slightly compressed load, and a 200 gr. boolit. Too soon to tell on accuracy, but no leading or pressure signs. I think the small tuft of dacron should help with any moisture migration issues