Gew 88-05

[Frank46]

Took delivery of a gew 88-05 this week. been busy working on cleaning the bbl. Stock is in nice shape but someone cut the forend just in front on the barrel band retainer spring. Does anyone know where I could get a section of forend with the slot for the retainer spring?. Plan on spliceing it on to the stock. And as I haven't slugged the bore yet, any suggestions on a cast boolit mold. Has the "S" stamped on the receiver and barrel number matches the receiver. Thanks, Frank

[Buckshot]

..............I'd seriously doubt anyone is making M1888 'Completion' wood, but then again there might be a lively underground network furiously messing with them :-) Did you check with Springfield Sporters or GPC for a stock?

...............Buckshot

[Frank46]

That's what I hate about getting old. Crs strikes again. Thanks Frank

[elk hunter]

Frank46;

As I recall all 88 commission rifles with original barrels were .318 diameter rather than the later .323 diameter. The S stamp on the top of the receiver means the chamber was opened up at the neck to allow the use of the later/larger ammunition. As for your shortened forend you may be able to use the front portion of some mauser stock rather than one from an 88 to restore it to original length. Lord knows there are lots of old Mauser stocks around.

[Frank46]

Elk hunter, thanks for the info. been scrounging around looking for something to slug the bbl with. Found some 45 cal round balls to try out. Frank

[johnly]

A 32-40 or 32 Special mold ought to be pretty close to what you need for a .318 bore.

John

[Frank46]

Johnly, most of the molds I have are 30, 357 or 45 cal. Will roll the ball between a couple steel plates to squish it down. Come to think about it, I have a 8mm mountain mold I bought from Ben some years back. Might be too fat to shoot in the gew 88 but just need a couple to slug the bbl. Frank

[Curtis44]

Frank, you may find that your 1888 barrel slugs out as large as .322. The thinking at the time was that bullets should be a few thou smaller than groove diameter. Look at most of the 6.5's designed about the same time, most have .267-.268 grooves and shoot .264 bullets!
My m1888 has .322 grooves and shoots .323 bullets without a hitch. Keep the loads moderate in deference to the 100+ year old steel.

[Frank46]

Just slugged the gew 88-05 barrel tonight. .311 and .3215 bore. Still working on getting the green out of the barrel. Thanks for all the info. Frank

[Story]

Took delivery of a gew 88-05 this week. been busy working on cleaning the bbl. Stock is in nice shape but someone cut the forend just in front on the barrel band retainer spring. Does anyone know where I could get a section of forend with the slot for the retainer spring?. Plan on spliceing it on to the stock.

When the last of the South American GEW88s were peddled off by the importers, they were going for ridiculously cheap (like $10 - $15 @) barreled actions with shattered stocks - most missing the buttstock.

Go here and post a "WTB : broken stock with useable foreend"
http://www.gew88.com/gew_88_forum/

[Frank46]

Story, already tried that. No light at the end of the tunnel. However ther is one ray of sunshine. Iswinds.com Walter reilly restorations does make replacement stocks from maple, hardwood, and walnut. Think he was asking about $185 for a stock. Frank

[Baron von Trollwhack]

I believe our own Swede Nelson has some significant involvement with Commission rifles, especially bolt parts and new stocks. I'm not sure how his handle goes. BvT

[gidgaf]

This is where your google-fu will really come in handy.
First off- I have some Commissions.
The are very nice doing what they are designed to do.
So- take your gun apart. They are easy. Really easy.
The barrel shroud will come off after you let it soak in a penetrant.
Get a little degreaser and clean any part that looks like it has a mark on it
Use a little white out or white fingernail polish to make the mark stand out.
Take a couple of really nice pictures of each mark.
Use your google-fu to check on these marks, and the gun.
Don't forget the regiment marks on that front barrel band, either!
*sigh* Ready?
The 1888 Commission rifel isn't really a Mauser. And it really isn't just a rifle.
It's a "pattern". Like you can buy a brand new 1911 .45 pistol, it's made to something like the original pattern. A lot of Enfields will say the same kinda thing.
I'll use the rifle next to me as an example.
It's an 1888 Commission rifle. Made at Danzig in 1891.
That "S" also means the magazine well was redone for single file bullets, , and the back of the receiver had small pieces attached to facilitate using straight magazine loading clips instead of the original Mannlicher types.
On the receiver mine is stamped "NM", for "New Material".
If you heard of some of the originals failing, well quality control and ammo load consistency didn't have quite the same charm it does now.
And they didn't know exactly how that newfangled smokeless was going to work.
BUT they changed to a harder tougher steel alloy, so mine isn't the original softie.
Mine's bigger than yours! My barrel, I mean.
Mine was mostly Turked- this gun was bought by Turkey and refurbed for their WW2 purposes. They replaced the barrel with a better one, 7.92 according to their stamp and 7.91 according to my calipers, after they reheat treated the receiver.
That's what some of these marks say. Most will be under the stock, on the barrel and the receiver; don't forget all the marks on the bolt pieces either. They all mean something.
There is a lot of other items for your headach- I mean pleasure.
That green in the barrel is copper. From shooting jacketed bullets. Don't do that.
This barrel is a softer steel than made in the last half century, and it was designed to shoot lead. Copper jacketed bullets will wear your barrel out pretty quick and sometimes a trip to Numrich may be the only help you get.
Yes at the time they thought that squiting large bullets thru small holes made them faster, hence finding small barrels for the caliber. The gun will last longer and shoot better with the right size boolits.
The cleaning kit for these actually came with a piece of steel screen. For emergency fouling cleaning only. You literally had to get your CO's permission first, because they knew that doing the screen clean would be detrimental to the accuracy of the firearm. Only use brass, bronze, or nylon brushes, and cotton patches to clean it with.
BTW, ammonia will take out the copper- and the finish off the stock, the black off the rifle, and it's notso good for a lot of other things either, so be careful. Keep the barrel oiled, dry patch it before firing.
I did a secret sin. My groups went to half size after I back bored mine an inch and re crowned. Decades of steel cleaning rods, setting the barrel on the ground, etc had made a mess of the frontal orifice. You can't tell by looking, but I can when shooting.
And yes I shoot it. 165, 175, 220g lead bullets, loaded to maybe 32 to 35k cup pressure. It shoots waay better than I do. Faster bullets equal more wear and tear, on me and the gun, and don't shoot as accurate. I don't really need to know how fast I missed the target!
The big worry these last few decades is not just "bad guns"; if they lasted this long shooting hot Turk ammo they're good guns. It's metal fatigue. You take a perfectly good metal hanger, and bend it a little. Next week, bend it again. It's still good. Sometime in the next hundred years that perfect metal will crack, get weak, and break. You've seen I-beam suspension eventually bend, old cars looking a little like an "M", you pull on the heater knob and pieces of the dash fall out- metal fatigue. Every shot shocks the receiver, the bullet bulge races thru, then a few extra quick shots and the barrel is too hot to touch. Do this for a hundred years ... and sometimes I worry.
Stuff Occurs. Be careful. Ask questions.
Things you really need to know include the actual caliber (you've done that), the distance between the bolts on the trigger assembly (the stocks are all different), and the last year of upgrades. do you have a "NM" receiver, or even the barrel? If the clip lugs are welded that's an 88-14, with a big rivet in the middle they're an 88-05.
Get the big cup of coffee, a bowl of snacks, and google away.
Check Numrich, gew88, milsurpafterhours, gunboards, commisionrifle, etc.

[Multigunner]

I believe the military 8X57J caliber rifles used a .321 bore with a .318 bullet, reying on upset to expand the bullet to fill the grooves, due to manufacturing tolerances a few fell on either side of .321. Some Commercial sporters used a .318 bore for maximum accuracy with the standard .318 bullet, those sporters and a few military guns retrofitted fitted with the tighter bore for range work are the rifles that caused problems when .323 bullets were used.
The Gew88 was proof tested to the equivalent of 58,000 CUP, so when new they had sufficient strength for the charge of the 7.92X57S standard velocity rounds, but tight bores and thin barrel walls could result in barrel blow outs, at least if the bore had gotten rough, or worse yet the exterior of the thin walled barrel became deeply rusted under the jacket, a problem shared with the Belgian 1889 mauser.

The real problem was that some loads for the 7.92X57S greatly exceeded the standard chamber pressure of rounds intended for the Gew98 Infantry rifle. Some long range MG loads generated pressures as high or higher as proof test rounds, and could damage even the best K98 actions if more than a few rounds were put through one.
When one of those blue pills was used in an old and sometimes corroded Gew88 something had to give.
I've seen photos of Gew88 barrels blown out and the jacket burst open from firing WW2 surplus 7.92.

I once fired a heavy AA AP load in a Persian carbine and it spun me around on my heel with a muzzle blast so fierce I thought the gun had exploded. A round like that could easily bust open a Gew88.

PS
The Gew 88 proof load used a then new system of measurement, the pressure of the proof load was expressed in Metric atmospheres, equivalent to the more recent British practice of expressing pressures in BAR. Both use the average atmospheric pressure at sea level as the base.
The Gew 88 proof load was rated at 4,000 metric atmospheres, which this source (5th Edition Gun Digest Treasury) gives as 58,800 PSI. How close these figures are to true PSI is impossible to say.


The Gew 1888 proofed by the above method would bear a mark as follows. '2.67 g. GBP' over the mark 'ST. M.G.' the latter stands for the type of service projectile "Stahl Mantle Geschoss" (Steel jacketed). 2.67 g. is the powder charge in grams of the special powder " Gewehr Blattchen ( Rifle Flake) Powder" used only for proof loads and not available to the public, and not used for any other type of cartridge other than proof test cartridges.

Other markings you may find are 8 mm over 57 and St. M.G. over 14.7 the last being the standard bullet weight in grams.

Other bullet designations you might find on sporting rifles are K.M.G. "Kupfer Mantle Geschoss" ( copper jacketed) and "Bl.g" which stands for Lead bullets.

So some Gew 88 barrels were intended for jacketed bullets and some sporter rifle barrels (probably the tight .318 bores sometimes encountered) were suitable for Lead Bullets only.

[Beekeeper]

If you can get him to answer contact Swede Nelson here on the forum.
He has complete stocks for the 88's for sale as well as other parts.
I have been trying to get in touch with him for several days to no avail so you may not be able to get him to respond.


Jim

[Doug Bowser]

I have a .319" mould for the 8x576J emaiol me at douglasmbowser@yahoo.com if you are interested.

Doug

[bruce drake]

Doug,

nice to see you back on the Net!

Bruce

[Frank46]

Gents, thanks very much for the information. The clips that were added for supporting the mauser stripper clip do not show any rivits. Nor does the letters "NM"
for new material also do not appear anywhere either on the receiver or bbl. Bbl shroud was very easy to remove and made checking for additional info and cleaning easy. Didn't come with the ejector but Swede Nelson will getting a call on that item.
Kind of a mixmaster in that the receiver, shroud and bbl all match, and bolt is not even matched to itself. Some slight pitting on the left side of the receiver but otherwise in pretty good shape. One thing I noticed is that the two stage trigger pull is nice and predictable. You know when its going to let go. So at this point in time looks like I have a shooter. Thanks again for your information. Frank

[Bob S]

Some several years ago, I purchased a Turk Gew 88/05 from Empire arms. It was pretty ratty outside, but the bore was excellent, with .3205 groove diameter. The front bedding screw was hopelessly rusted in and I had to resort to drilling it out. During the "open and inspect" prior to firing, I found the recoil lug was cracked.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v76/BobS1/G88crackedlugA.jpg?t=1265923888

In those days, you could get a receiver from Numerich for $10, so it is now back in firing condition.

I found this Gew 88/14 about the same time. No Turk markings, all matching German Imperial markings, bore pristine except for one small spot about 6" from the muzzle. Groove .3206, bore .311.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v76/BobS1/Gew%2088/Gew88_SFL.jpg?t=1265924466

The Gew 88/14 uses the original Mannlicher style clip, but has a closed magazine bottom to keep the trench mud out, and a spring that pops the empty clip out the top like an M1:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v76/BobS1/Gew%2088/Gew88_Sclipejector.jpg?t=1265924563

Resp'y,
Bob S.

[SwedeNelson]

Frank46

The wrist and the for-end are the hardest to find.
I do have about 8 reproduction stocks on hand.
They are about 80% complete so you would have
to do some work to get them to fit. $150.00 Ea.

We also have a bullet mould made just for .318
bore. Cast and size to .321 It is a LEE two cavity.
$28.00

Thanks
Swede Nelson

[Frank46]

Swede, I slugged the bbl again twice today. Lotta scrubbing going on. I get close to .322 for the bore. What is the as cast diameter of your boolit. I figure I'll need .324
to be safe. Frank

[kendwell]

Picked up gew 88 bbl from Numrich, described over the phone as in the white, and take off from new receiver. Has good rifling in center of bore, but worn badly in chamber, and no rifling at all front two inches of muzzle. Is this about par, or did I get a bad one? $61 plus shipping for this.

Walther/Lothar , GA advises they have small shipment coming in @ feb 28, but at $248, plus shipping... Question on headspacing responded to as "deep chambered" which means??? Anybody know?

[milsurp mike]

I would send the bad barrel back to Numrich arms and get another from them.They will pick you a better one next time.Mike

[Beekeeper]

Swede,
As the resident expert on the GEW 88 do you know of a web site or mabye have something that tells what 88 you have?
I see people here and on other sites claim they have 88/14's or 88/05's and have never been able to find just where the find the info.


Jim

[SwedeNelson]

beekeeper

Try:
http://parallaxscurioandrelicfirearmsforums.yuku.com/forum/view/id/92
http://www.texastradingpost.com/m88/
A good book to find is:
A Collector's Guide to the German GEW. 88 "Commission" Rifle
By Paul S. Scarlata

Frank46
With your barrel I would go with a SAECO #081
Have had very luck with it sized .324

Swede Nelson

[Frank46]

Swede, thanks for the info. Frank