115 gr or 125 gr 9mm?

[Mike89]

Been shooting some 115 gr (Berry's Plated) 9mm reloads. Just bought some 125 gr lead bullets. What do you guys prefer to shoot in your 9mm? What are the differences between the two?

[GBertolet]

I like the 124/125 gr bullets in all my ammo, factory or reloads. I have used both plated and lead. The plated bullets smoke less, as they don't have any lube. I haven't seen any difference in accuracy between the plated or lead as long as the lead is of the correct diameter and hardness. Usually .356 or .357 and at least as hard as wheel weights in my experience. You can go longer without cleaning if you use the plated bullets. But they cost more. Either one works.

[S.R.Custom]

Neither. In that caliber, I'm partial to the 147 grain bullets in both lead and jacketed.

[9.3X62AL]

Most of my 9mm ammo is loaded with 125 grain truncated cone home-cast boolits. No particular reason for not using 115 grain bullets currently.

In pre-Miami Shootout days, my agency used 115 grain Silvertips in 9mm. FBI declared them to be All Things Evil et Persona Non Grata circa 1990, which is bullsquat--but no more 115s for authorized carry since then. I make a point of practicing with a handload that closely duplicates my carry load, and have for over 30 years. I have stopped carrying 9mm due to recent admin poguery in this vein, and the 9mm is purely recreational now.

Both the 115 and 125 grain bullets seem to shoot to the sights of most service-grade/fixed-sight pistols. To me, it's a toss-up. Both weights have shot well for me, jacketed and cast.

[winelover]

Neither. In that caliber, I'm partial to the 147 grain bullets in both lead and jacketed.

I don't agree! Compare the ballistics with the best manstopper, a 357 magnum 125 grain hollow point. You will find that the velocity of 9mm in 115 - 125 JHP is about as close as you can get without duplicating. Muzzle flip will be less with the lighter bullet so second shot recovery would be faster. Fixed sited guns would be more apt to shoot to point of aim. In terms of cast bollits, the lighter slug would be more economical. It's an easy choice IMO.

Winelover:cbpour:

[dtknowles]

In my 9 x 19's I shoot 130 (more like 129) gr. LRN cast from a Lee mold, I load the pretty hot ( over 1150 fps) but they work great in my Star, CZ-52 and High Point Carbine. Heavier lead boolits shoot too high for the fixed sights on the pistols and lighter bullets don't knock over the plates on the plate racks as well and so I don't think would have good penetration. I like LRN's better than Trunk Cones, these LRN are almost flat points. If the mould dropped at 125 or even 120 I would probably call it good, 115 is really a little too light in my opinion, even for .380. I shoot this same bullet in my .380, especially in the .380 I want as much penetration as I can get forget expansion, you got to get to the boiler room.

I also shoot 9 x 23 in a different barrel (and slide with different sights) in the CZ and in that I shoot a lot of 158 gr. boolits at around 1100 fps or a little less for practice but it really comes into its own when I load 124 gr. gold dots at almost 1400 fps. Anyway, for my mind in a 9mm or 38 for a human target at combat ranges a boolit in the 120 to 130 gr range is my choice for a bigger target or at longer ranges I would go heavier.

Tim

[S.R.Custom]

I don't agree!

And that's why they make both. :D

Years ago when I first started doing work with the 9mm, I was all about the 125 grain bullet. That is until I started to enter competitions where I had to knock things down-- steel plates, bowling pins, etc. Off-center hits on steel with the 125 grain bullets wouldn't always knock them over, and they were dismal at driving pins off a table.

Things improved markedly in that respect when I went to the 147 grain bullets. With judicious choices in brass, primers, and how much AA#7 you use, you can load a 147 gr bullet that will make the old major power factor of 175 from a 5" barreled pistol like the Beretta. And that's without flattening primers.

Yes, there is more muzzle flip. But it's a Newton thing. If I'm feeling more of the joy, so is my target. ;)

[Angus]

I use the Lee 358-150-1R sized to .357 in my P89. Load it on top of 3.5gr of Titegroup and the recoil feels almost like cheating... I can't recommend the heavies in 9mm enough if it is dedicated to punching paper and maybe an errant coyote or rabbit.

[Who's this Guy ?]

I like to shoot lead 125gr cast reloads. The economics of it works for me.

[jimb16]

I go with the 124/125 gr bullets. I get much better accuracy with those in all of my 9s.

[Wally]

I've used 105/125/155 garin bullets in my Taurus 99AF. All work pretty well...the Lee 105 SWC would sometimes jam (not feed properly)--this year I am going to be using the Lee 102 RN. Shooting it in my Ruger SS Blackhawk (has a 9mm cylinder it was very accurate. For shooting at longer ranges--50 yards and more, I agree that heavier bullets are more accurate.

[machinisttx]

125's make it feel more like a real gun.

[Lloyd Smale]

i shoot 115/120s because the best dammed shooting 9mm cast bullet ive found is the rcbs round nose. the pointy one that doesnt have the shoulder on it. It shoots well at either weight in every 9mm ive tried it in. I would never use a cast 9mm bullet for self defense anyway and even if i did i dont think the heavier bullets would give an advantage.

[Shiloh]

125's and 147's

Shiloh

[9.3X62AL]

SuperMag et al--

Loaded as you indicate--or at least to their safe SAAMI potential--the 147 grainers would make sense. The FBI-pimped sub-sonic 147s barely get to 950 FPS in most pistol barrels, including the long Beretta 92s. I've clocked hundreds of them. That is barely standard-pressure 38 Special ballistics. This is one of my pet grievances with The Status Quo LEO Ammo Selection Orthodoxy, as pandered by Famous But Incomprehensible. Don't get me wrong--the agency has A LOT of great agents and very fine trainers, but some of their ideas leave me scratching my head. This one is chief among them.

The 147 grainers can be SUPERBLY accurate, even in service-grade pistols. And the sub-sonic loading is quite docile in terms of recoil. So it's not completely evil......just not terribly effective, which matters when the stuff I'm trying to knock over happens to be shooting back.

[GabbyM]

Vitavuori has a powder (3N38) advertised to push 147gr JHP to 1207 fps.
I'd think you'd about need spring for a 40 S&W in your 9mm to shoot that load.
That's from a 4” barrel also. Even the start load is 1171 fps. Their powder is expensive here with green backs but at 6.3 grains charge for the start load it's not that big a deal.

I have the Magma 147gr FP and an all steel S&W so may give it a try.

My favorite bullet for the 9mm's has been 124gr truncated cone flat points.
Loaded to around 1150 fps.

[9.3X62AL]

Vitavuori has a powder (3N38) advertised to push 147gr JHP to 1207 fps.

Hey--that's well into 357 Magnum's toll-free dialing area. That'll WORK--yeah, buddy.

[Jack Stanley]

9.3X62AL,

Perhaps what the FBI is admiting without saying so is the thirty-eight is a nice roud for their uses . They just want more shots in the handle than a revolver holds [smilie=1:

Jack

[bohokii]

my theory is if you cant run em fast run em heavy

[GabbyM]

9.3X62AL,

Perhaps what the FBI is admiting without saying so is the thirty-eight is a nice roud for their uses . They just want more shots in the handle than a revolver holds [smilie=1:

Jack

To many lawyers in the FBI.
They are afraid a round may “over penetrate.” Now you tell me what kind of fool comes up with a term like that.

They also used this “over penetrate” propaganda to keep the 5.56mm NATO round out of the hands of police for decades. Never mind that a 9 x 19mm pistol with proper ball ammo will out penetrate the 5.56mm through most media. :-o

The 9 x 19mm was a fine killer of men for ¾ century until our FBI decided to reinvent the wheel. That 147gr HP at low velocity is a dud. Get the penetration first to put a hole through the target. How complicated is that? Our beloved 38 Special developed it's reputation with cast lead solid boolits.

One of the major arguments for LE switching to 9mm over 38 and 357 revolvers was the high percentage one shot kill record the Illinois State Police had racked up over a long period of use in the old jamamatic first model 39. Which had no feed ramp attached to the barrel but rather in the frame 1911 style. Perhaps the high probability of jam induced the LEO to actually take aim? Naa.

Issued round was a federal police only 100 grain truncated cone flat point. Used an exposed lead soft nose which actually didn't expand as that would have ruined the whole thing but to make the LEO feel better they made it appear to be a “dumb dumb” round. The dead soft lead tip of course helped jam the gun up. It simply killed any human it hit in a vital spot regardless of how big he was or how much PCP was in him. DRT, This in spite of the light weight bullet that didn't penetrate all the way through a big man. But short penetration is what they were after with a light bullet. It worked because of the high velocity and flat nose fairly wide meplat. We talk about big meplat around here a lot but I've read you need 900 fps before it starts to work.

Along comes the FBI bullet. Ignoring what works they decide after some nice high speed photo's of jello jiggling they know better. Sub sonic duds. Facts are once the dum dum bullet gets through auto glass leather jacket or whatever it's not going 900 fps anymore. It's getting ready to do just what it was designed to do. Fail to penetrate. It also will deflect from hits with auto glass even worse than a 45 acp. Giving up one of the biggest combat strong points of the 9mm pistol. If they'd of just gone out and shot a few pigs they'd of saved lots of time. but then how could they bill tax payers millions of dollars for shooting a few pigs?

I was looking over the Hornady web site the ther day and couldn't find the old 124gr fmj-fp bullet. Only the total encapsulated target bullet with what looks by the image to have a tiny meplat. That's just a bummer. This was the bullet which came out of the US Air Force trials back when the M9 came into service. Military stuck with the old NATO Ball round because the flat point would not penetrate the sixteen inches of pine board test. That was a big mistake IMO but now it seams Hornady has dropped the bullet. No matter we can cast them. This is the H&G #309 bullet BTW. The Magma 357 revolver bullet with canalure is a nice TCFP design which works well also.

One of the reasons I've always preferred deep penetrating pistol bullets is this.
When I was growing up around here their was a man carrying five 9mm bullets from an MP-40 in his gut. Got them during the last winter of the 2nd war in Germany. With all the heavy coats that's all the farther the bullets went. By the time he got to a hospital he was healed over and they left them in. He had health problems and didn't live to be an old man. But I never figured a 9mm needed anything to reduce it's penetration. It was common for German soldiers to mutilate their 9mm ammo to make it dumm dumm. It was a misconceived venture although I'm sure it worked to their psychopathic delight at times.

What I think of the new FBI test and the Speer 124gr Gold Dot are another story.

[S.R.Custom]

SuperMag et al--

Loaded as you indicate--or at least to their safe SAAMI potential--the 147 grainers would make sense...

[emphasis mine]

What most people don't know is that the 9mm+P --which any decent service pistol is designed for-- operates at a higher pressure than the .44 Mag. 'Struth. Some interesting SAAMI spec pressures, in order of manliness:

9mm, 35 KPSI
.357 Magnum, 35 KPSI
.44 Magnum, 36 KPSI
9mm+P, 38.5 KPSI

Looking back at the chrono tickets for the 147 gr/AA#7 Major loads I referred to earlier, the average velocity was 1,197 FPS. I could have gone higher as the primers weren't showing signs of excessive flattening yet. But as is typical of service pistols, there was an excess of headspace and at these velocities the primers were showing signs of mound cratering.

In other words, loaded to its potential with a quality hollow point bullet and a decent powder charge, the 9mm is a no-questions-asked man stopper. How we got saddled with Winchester White Box as the 'standard' 9mm load is beyond me.

[9.3X62AL]

Gabby--

You said it, sir! Well-stated.

SuperMag--

The 9mm got down-loaded in the USA after a LOT of wheezy nominal "9mm" caliber pistols came home from WWII, sometimes in calibers (and pressures) other than 9 x 19 Luger. A similar thing occurred with the 8 x 57 Mauser and its J or JS bore differential. The excuse given for this down-load sequence by the ammo-makers was that full-potential 9 x 19 or 8 x 57 ammo could conceivably find its way into a weak or wrong-caliber or poor-condition platform, and wreak havoc. OK, maybe......but I'm more inclined to believe that American ammo-makers were also in many case gun-makers, and they weren't real happy to see people buying or shooting surplus arms. They likely still aren't. So, if they keep the 9mm down around 38 Special ratings--and the 8 x 57 to 30-30 power--the 357 Magnum revolvers and 30-06 rifles will still be attractive to North American consumers. Yeah, that worked well.......NOT.

Jack Stanley--check for PM, sir. A true anecdote for ya, not suitable for public posting.