Bullet Mold Design for IDPA

[Red Butler]

Good Morning All,

My wife and I are going to start shooting IDPA. I carry a S&W revolver 645 in 45acp and she has two full size 1911 Colts that she trades between in 45acp and 38super.

Can anyone make a recommendation as to mold brand/s and styles? I do have a Lee 45-200 that casts well for my Ruger New Model Vaquero but, I don't know how it will work in a semi-auto? All thoughts, comments and recomendations
are welcomed.

Thanks in advance. Red

[wiljen]

I presume you are speaking of the Lee 200gr Round Nose Flat point design as the other is a SWC designed for semi-autos. Either way, it should work fine in your IDPA guns. Others to try would be the Lee 230 TC or the Lyman 452630.

[imashooter2]

For on the clock revolver reloads, you need a round nose profile. I use the Lee 452-228-1R in my 625. It works fine in my 1911's as well (Kimber and Colt). No need to work up different loads for the 2 platforms. It should be noted that the 452-228-1R is not a hardball profile. Some autos may not like it.

I have no advice on the .38 Super... never messed with it.

<====== That's the Lee452-228-1R in my avatar.

[mooman76]

Since you already have the mould, try it and see. That's the best way to find out.

[Uncle R.]

My favorite for fast reloads back when I was pin shooting was the 454190. I'd load it in ACP cases - put a hard roll crimp on it and use full moon clips. That small flat on the bullet nose didn't hurt reloading times at all. The hard crimp hid the case mouth and everything that could touch the chamber mouth was rounded or tapered. A clip full would dang near jump into the cylinder by themselves. It sounds weird putting a heavy roll crimp on acp ammo - but remember it's not acp ammo - not really. It's 45 revolver ammo and the crimp works great.

[KYCaster]

Good morning Red, and welcome to the forum.

When you start shooting the action pistol games you'll soon learn that any bullet with a FP or SWC shoulder on it is going to drasticly slow down your revolver reloads. A moon clip full of RN slides in the cylinder much better.

H&G #35 is the classic RN for the 45ACP and will work well in your 625 and your wife's 1911. A ten cavity H&G mold would be great to have but if you can find one the price would probably be outrageous. The same style is available from most of the commercial casters who use Magma machines and RCBS still offers their clone, the 45-230-RN. Lyman's 452374 is a bit closer to the jacketed bullet profile and should work well.

Lee's 452-228-1R has a very blunt nose which doesn't help your revolver reloads any and sometimes causes feeding problems in 1911's. I'm not a fan of tumble lube, but their TL452-230-2R has a more user friendly profile and if you don't mind working with alox it should work OK.

The 38 Super shouldn't be too picky about what you can feed it. I've seen them loaded with everything from 95 gr to 160 gr. If you're loading to major power factor, that's much easier to accomplish with heavier boolits...145 gr and up, the heavier the better.

I hope this answers your questions.

Jerry

[knifemaker]

I have to agree with KYCASTER. I shoot IDPA and bought a Lee 452-228-1R six cavity mold and after casting and using about 500 rounds I sold the mold. The 1R had to be seated deep enought to prevent jamming against the lands in my match 45 ACP barrel, and due to a very short overall lenght, it was not that reliable in feeding.
The Lee TL452-230-2R is far closer to the military hardball and feeds very reliable. If you do not want to mess with tumble lubing, you can use a .451 sizing-lube die and it will work just fine. I have sized and lube several tumble lube designs in 45 ACP, 44 mag. and 45-70 with excellant results in accurracy and no problems with leading the barrel.
The Lee TL452-230-2R should work fine in your revolver for fast reloads due to the hardball configeration and work just fine in your wife's 1911s.

[imashooter2]

I load the Lee 452-228-1R at 1.245 inch and have no issues in a Kimber factory barrel or a Colt with either the original barrel or an aftermarket Colt factory National Match barrel. I'm not discounting the others experiences, I'm just saying that not all pistols are the same.

For the revolver, while I would certainly rather have the pointier hardball profile, I dislike the TL designs in general and all the commercial Magma type designs have a small shoulder that I find will catch on occasion and slow the reload. I never have that problem with the 452-228-1R. If someday an 8 cavity H&G #34 should fall into my lap, I'd certainly use it. Until then, I don't see myself as handicapped pouring 6 at a time in the Lee.

FWIW, I load the 452-228-1R as cast and film lube with Rooster Jacket.

[Red Butler]

Wow! What a wealth of information... Thank you very much everyone for your insights and advise.

I have cast from the Lee 452-200-RF because we shoot CAS and need a flat point for the carbines. I hadn't thought about it but, as has been mentioned the round nose profile would certainly serve us better for faster reloads from moon clips and for smoother ramp feeding in the 1911. I'll buy a Lee TL452-230-2R to try.

I did experience some leading in my S&W 625 yesterday using Lee TL. My Lee 452-200-RF mold as-cast bullets measured=.452". Sluged chambers=.451 and barrel=.450. I used 5.5 grs of IMR 700X @prox 900 fps. Lead BHN 14-16.

Maybe I'm using the wrong powder for trying to develop a load for for IDPA ESR division.

Would anyone care so share the pet load and lube reciept for this type of IDPA shooting? Again, any and all comments and suggestions are vert welcomed.

Thanks. Red

[DevilDog83]

Morning Red,
I shoot my 625 in USPSA, ICORE and IDPA. I have both of the "Lee" molds and find that the 228 round nose works a little better for me. I use 4.0 Clays as it gives me the major power factor ( only need 120 in ICORE, but I like to keep the same feel) and does not seem to lead or smoke too much. Good luck and enjoy IDPA, give the other sports a try also!!

[imashooter2]

Using the Lee 228 (which actually weighs 228 grains in my alloy) lubed with Rooster jacket in my 4 inch 625 yields the following:
4.3 grains of Bullseye makes a 170 power factor.
4.5 grains WST makes a 175 power factor. (Note: 2 tenths over Hodgdon max, but safe in my revolver.)
4.0 of Clays makes a 176 power factor.

[Red Butler]

John Z Sr, Thanks for the info. What lube are you using? Red

[Red Butler]

imashooter2,

Thank you for the rapid response. My understanding is that IDPA power factors are based of feet-per-second (but, I'm new to this this disipline game). Could you please share what fps you are getting with your different loads?

Thanks. Red

[Red Butler]

knifemaker,

I have a Star lube/sizer and can use that to lube with. With the Lee TL452-230-2R do you apply the crimp in front of the top driving band or...? I've not had any experience with the TL bullet configeration. Also, what lube do you use? Thanks again.

[KYCaster]

imashooter2,

Thank you for the rapid response. My understanding is that IDPA power factors are based of feet-per-second (but, I'm new to this this disipline game). Could you please share what fps you are getting with your different loads?

Thanks. Red


IDPA and USPSA both have a minimum requirement for major power factor of 165. Power factor is calculated by multiplying the weight of the bullet in grains by the velocity in feet per second and dividing by 1000. A 230 gr boolit needs to travel 717.4 fps to "make major". 230 X 717.4 / 1000 = 165.002 Or weigh your boolit and divide that weight into 165,000 to find the velocity required.

My 625 doesn't like the same loads I use in the 1911. At 168 to 170 PF there just isn't enough pressure there to expand the brass enough to seal the chambers, resulting in dirty brass and chambers fouled with lube and powder residue. After 50 rounds or so it begins to interfere with chambering live rounds, slowing down reloads. My solution is to use a faster burning powder (Clays) and load to a higher PF (180). I find that dealing with the increased recoil is better than running to the safe area to scrub the chambers after every stage.

There's a bit more to it than duplicating somebody else's load. Without a chronograph you have no way of knowing what his load will do in your gun. It usually takes a few matches to figure out what works and what doesn't. A good source of info is the guys on your squad at the match. Most are willing to share info and its easy enough to tell which methods work by watching the guys shoot.

For your first couple of matches pick a load you're comfortable with and go shoot to have fun. Based on your results, adjust as necessary and try again. Just don't ever forget the main reason you're there.....ITS FUN.

Good luck and enjoy.
Jerry

[imashooter2]

Solid advice from KYCaster.

My chrono speeds are:

4.3 Bullseye = 746 fps average with 7 fps SD

4.5 WST = 769 fps average with 11 fps SD

4.0 Clays = 777 fps average with 14 fps SD.

SD is important if you are going to play PF close to the edge. You don't want to "fail chrono" and get bumped to minor (or whatever it is they do in IDPA).

[Red Butler]

KYCaster & imashooter2,

It seems that I have a lot to learn. And, the first thing I need is a chronograph to determine what my loads are doing. Then, attend a couple of matches to see what others are using for their loads.

Thanks for the detailed informative information. I hope that I can repay the help sometime along the trail. Red

[mooman76]

knifemaker,

I have a Star lube/sizer and can use that to lube with. With the Lee TL452-230-2R do you apply the crimp in front of the top driving band or...? I've not had any experience with the TL bullet configeration. Also, what lube do you use? Thanks again.

Crimp where you want or need to. It has multiple shallow lube grooves.

[Red Butler]

mooman76,


If I apply the crimp below one of the micro lube grooves wouldn't that cause feeding/chambering problems in the 1911?

Thanks.

[imashooter2]

Probably not in the 1911. It would leave a shoulder for the revolver.

[Red Butler]

Thanks again to everyone for the info.