Bottom-spiggot v ladle method for casting.

[FAsmus]

Gentelmen;

Not to get into braging here (least of all places) but I'd like to see a quiet discussion about the merits of the two methods for casting bullets.

Now, I'm a convinced ladle-cast fellow and the jump off reason I've decided to post here is because I recently (Sunday) ran off a 170 bullet batch of 44-500-PB bullets for this summer's match shooting. These from the custom Jones mold.

At inspection time I thought at first that my scale was broken; bullet after bullet fell into a +/- 0.5 grain envolpe and most into +/- 0.2 grain. Only 8 bullets of the run were rejected because they were 1.5 grains lighter than the mean.

Those of you who cast big, heavy bullets know that getting them to drop so closely in weight isn't easy. My question is; Is there a bullet casting fellow out there who drops lead from a BP pot that has done as well or better?

Good evening,
Forrest

[Le Loup Solitaire]

The ladle vs BP controversy has been going on for a very long time. In the classic book still in print by Wolfe publishing titled "The Art of Bulletcasting", Jim Carmichael wrote a very good article on the subject. The pros and cons as well as the conclusions are clear and well summarized. Casting large bullets in the 500 grain range, especially with such close and consistent/ repeating success wightwise is an art in itself. It takes an experienced caster with a good mold and a decent ladle or a quality BP pot. 0.5 grain tolerance is extremely good and 0.2 is phenomenal. I have achieved that only in casting for 38 wadcutters with H&G 4 cavity molds at a weight of 148 grains....which is a long way from 45 cal 500 grain. Bullets of that size are prone to casting difficulties; theory has it that in the pour-the nose is setting up while the base is still being filled with voids and bubbles likely in the shrinkage stage. A hidden demon in the process is a void that is off center & in any kind of competition work/preparation, close evaluation is necessary. Once long ago when I was in active competition I used to weigh the bullets that I took to the line and I selected only those in the 0.2 or 0.1 variance range. That might approach "as well" if the difference of bullet size and large weight were to be overlooked, but doing better than you have done, especially with such a low rejection rate has to be considered exceptional. LLS

[runfiverun]

all i use are bottom pour pots nowdays.
but if i were to make anything over 400 grs it would definately be a ladle being used.
i started out with ladles and still have a couple, but do very well with bottom pours on the smaller sized boolits i mainly shoot now.

[mdi]

I'm sure my post won't be of any help on this topic, but I use both methods depending on how I feel. Sometimes I feel like standing and ladling, other times I feel like sitting to bottom pour. (tried sitting and ladling but didn't like it, and standing I can't see to bottom pour). My consistancy is about the same with both methods, but my largest boolit is 300 gr.

[FAsmus]

Gentlemen;

I must say that I too use a bottom-drop pot for certain things.

My method is to heat up a 50 pound lot of alloy on the turkey-cooker and use it to keep a Lee 10-pounder BP filled, hot and running when the time comes to run a 6-hole pistol mold.

Other that that I cast with the ladle ~ always noting how easy it is to run excellent quality small-bore bullets in the 30 caliber range.

I have a copy of "The Art of Bullet Casting" copywrite 1981 and I read the paragraphs where Carmichael stated his ideas about the subject so long ago. I particularly note that he didn't come down on either side of the question!

My inspection of a production run of heavy, large caliber bullets is enough for me here but also I have it on the authority of TFS contributor Mustafa Curtess, who casts and shoots thousands of pistol bullets every year, that he has never been able to get the quality from a BP pot as he routinely gets by use of a ladle. His data is good enough for me regarding the question. But I’m really hunting for some additional results (other that what we’ve already seen) to substantiate a given shooters idea about which method produces the best bullets.

Good evening,
Forrest

[Naphtali]

Using wheel weight, a reasonable rule of thumb is to cast large bullets by ladle, large meaning both diameter and weight. We cast 357 Magnum bullets by bottom pour without too much culling. Bottom pour cull rate for 300+ grain 44 and 45 bullets can be as much as 1 in 3. Cull for 400+ grain 475 and 45-70 bullets can be as much as 1 in 2. By changing to ladle for these bullets, using an RCBS ladle with pour spout drilled to 3/32 inch, our cull rate drops to zero-to-5 percent.

Hope this helps.

[Bret4207]

I ladled for 30+ years, one disasterous term with a Lee pot put me off the BP for years. Recently I got hold of a SAECO pot. It's a much, much better pot than the Lee, it grows on you. BUt, I still have issues- With a ladle you can see and "feel" what you're doing. The BP you have to have the pot up at eye level to see anything and I can't feel what I'm doing at all. I never got a bad burn till I used the BP. My BP boolits seem to be good shooters, they cast well and the quality seems to be alright, but I get better results from a ladle overall. I'm sure much of that is operator error.

BTW- I cast from 22- 45 cal. From 40ish grains to 400+. If given a choice of one or the other, I'd take the ladle without hesitation. I'd prefer to have both available.

[rob45]

Volume = Bottom pour

Quality = Ladle

Heavy bullet = Ladle

Long bullet = Ladle

Aluminum mold = Bottom pour (allows faster rate of casting for me to keep the mold hot)

These are my general rules of thumb. There is always an exception. Also, I did drill out the nozzle on one of my BP pots to provide better fillout on the larger stuff while keeping volume up. But now that pot is dedicated to those situations.

[Slow Elk 45/70]

Volume = Bottom pour

Quality = Ladle

Heavy bullet = Ladle

Long bullet = Ladle

Aluminum mold = Bottom pour (allows faster rate of casting for me to keep the mold hot)

These are my general rules of thumb. There is always an exception. Also, I did drill out the nozzle on one of my BP pots to provide better fillout on the larger stuff while keeping volume up. But now that pot is dedicated to those situations.

+1 for this approach...WFM:cbpour:

[FAsmus]

Gentlemen;

Well I thought this thread might be one of those "hot" topics, judging by what I've seen in the past.

I'm pleased to have read a pretty good consensis per the two methods.

Thanks and good afternoon,
Forrest