Cold weather groups not up to snuff

[44man]

I have been shooting 200 yards with my revolvers and it is proving hard to get under 4" groups. Primer changes have not helped.
I hesitate to work loads with more powder but it might help.
Since colder weather shooting is for hunting, no big deal.
I am trying something else to see what happens. With my 45-70 BFR loads with 4759, I rapped the loading block a bunch of times to settle the powder before putting in the Dacron filler. I can't wait to test it but it is miserable outside.
How much difference have you found during weather changes? What, if anything has improved groups?

[dubber123]

Going to a very soft lube helped. I know you use a soft lube already, so other that that, wait patiently for spring...

[Lloyd Smale]

I notice it effecting powders like 110 and aa9 quite a bit. Mag primers help but dont cure it. About the only real cure is spring time.

[44man]

Yeah, it is just at freezing with 30 to 40 MPH winds today. Branches and limbs falling everywhere.

[BABore]

Keep the ammo in a small cooler with hot water bottle inside. Where I shoot, we have a wood stove within a few feet. Doesn't help a whole lot when the 10' garage door is open to shoot and it's zero out. I usually keep my ammo close enough to the forced air heat ducts to keep it close to 60 F or so. Been know to warm up my gun once in a while too.

[Bucks Owin]

I finally have a day that isn't peeing down rain, supposed to be high 50's temp, and am gonna burn some powder today myself. 4" at 200 yds huh? I love it! Can't wait to see how they do when you're not shivering at the bench! BTW, how much SR 4759 and what bullet in the .45/70? Maybe my Handi Rifle can learn something!?! Best amigo, Dennis

[2shot]

Us Bullseye shooter run into the same problem duing the winter months with both rimfire and centerfire. Most good shooters (Master >) keep their ammo in their pockets to keep it warm. It does make a difference in how it groups.This doesn't help you much though if your out hunting unless you have time to set up for the shot and can keep you gun unloaded until then.

[HCL]

I have not loaded for 45-70 pistol however; for my rifle I use only Benchmark due to temp changes up here. It is one of hodgdon's extream powders and over a crony, winter or summer I dont get hardly any change. And it turned out to be most accurate powder I have tried. Only thing I have notice that has any real affect on it is altitude, going from almost sea level to 4000-7000ft changed point of impact enough to notice. Have not drug the crony in the hills to check velocities.
Varget is another one of thier extream powders I tried but did not give me the velocity I was looking for, but very accurate powder. Varget is listed for 45-70 pistol.
I messed with alot of powders for 45-70 and always came back to Benchmark.
Mike

[targetshootr]

Even 6" at 200 yds would be 3" at 100, 1.5" at 50. Time to stay inside.

[runfiverun]

your thin lube will thicken up in the cold.
might just be why the northern guy's like the thicker lubes to begin with for year round shooting.
don't change viscosity much from -20 up to 90 only diff is to warm the bbl some or burn a couple then shoot group.
or experiment with a wet patch before going on target and when done shooting.

[44man]

I finally have a day that isn't peeing down rain, supposed to be high 50's temp, and am gonna burn some powder today myself. 4" at 200 yds huh? I love it! Can't wait to see how they do when you're not shivering at the bench! BTW, how much SR 4759 and what bullet in the .45/70? Maybe my Handi Rifle can learn something!?! Best amigo, Dennis
My boolit is a 384 gr WFN PB with 30 gr of 4759, Federal 155 primer and a tuft of Dacron.
My other boolit is a 317 gr WLNGC with 31.5 gr of 4759, everything else the same. It is usually my most accurate but in the cold, the heavier boolit is actually doing better. More resistance to the burn I guess.
Cold does not bother me, I am from Ohio. I didn't even put a fire in the stove last night and opened the bedroom window. But it seems to affect the powder. I don't usually shoot groups in the winter but wanted to compare drop between the boolits. The heavier one shoots about 6" higher from more barrel rise and recoil. My first try showed the same POI but I found it was just me. The second try did show a separation as did the third time.
The .475 and .44 are showing the same drop they have in the summer but groups are larger too.
I might try 1/2 gr more powder to see if it helps in the cold and is the reason I asked, to see if anyone tried that.
Lucky that it is not real cold here in deer season so my summer loads are fine.

[Lloyd Smale]

heck pal it is below zero and a blizard here right now. i would think adding a bit of powder will help some. Pressure is good when powders are hard to light off
Yeah, it is just at freezing with 30 to 40 MPH winds today. Branches and limbs falling everywhere.

[44man]

heck pal it is below zero and a blizard here right now. i would think adding a bit of powder will help some. Pressure is good when powders are hard to light off
I am going to try it, need something to do, cabin fever. :holysheep
I have to build a giant, 8' span biplane for a friend. There is no instruction book because he bought the kit used. I keep putting it off. [smilie=b: It's like making a rifle stock, I stare at the wood for a long time or like seeing all the dust in the garage, I kick the shop vac out of the way!
There are priorities you know. :cbpour:

[Bass Ackward]

Cold weather problems. Hmmmmmmm........................

[44man]

Cold weather problems. Hmmmmmmm........................
Well, it happens with all of my guns, even the 6.5 Swede. Varget powder seems to have the least change but 4831 was not too good.
Normally, after deer season, I hang up my revolvers and work around the house unless someone comes to shoot. Then we just shoot off hand and have fun.
Take my .44 for example. I tried magnum primers in the cold and groups were still larger then standard primers but groups were overall, still larger then in the summer. Yes, I know the cold effects powder burn and even primer heat. Yes lube gets stiff but I still get zero leading.
I never worked loads in the winter because I don't want over pressure in the summer and do not like the idea of separate loads for each season. I assure you I can plunk a deer when it is below zero with my summer loads so that is a moot point.
But just for fun shooting, will adding more powder bring back accuracy when it is cold?
I am not hauling a chronograph down the hill this time of year. I can't drive the utility wagon back up the hill and I am not making two or three trips each way on foot. :groner:

[Bass Ackward]

Yes lube gets stiff but I still get zero leading. :groner:



Leading is not a variable here. At least it never was for me.

I can save you time and expense, Lloyd has the best advice. It is lube. And the higher the velocity you have the worse the phenomenon is. Your is manageable because you are going soooooo slow. (Real velocities start at 2000 on up.) :bigsmyl2:

It will get better as it gets warmer. It just happens no matter how hard you are.

Welcome to the club.

[Frank]

A bit warmer over here. I tried the 45-70 BFR at 200 yds. Had to hang it over the target stand to get it on the bottom target. I need to click the scope to a higher zero. I tried WLP in the 475 and had a decent 100 yd 1" group going, but the last two were fliers. It was looking good with a lesser powder charge. So maybe the WLP is hotter. I'd like to see a flame test with pics of those two primers.

[NHlever]

I think the cold affects most everything from bullet pull to velocity. It's hard to keep everything at a uniform temperature. I thought I had the secret to my little .22 Hornet with some H-110 loads until it got cold, and then that sensitive case explained a few things to me. Even how long the cold rounds sit in the warm chamber before the round is fired seems to change things sometimes............ of course revolvers have their own chamber cooling mechanism.... :D

[BD]

I had problems with my .44s down around zero using WC820. I tried all kinds of primers and the only ones I found to be completely reliable below 10 deg were the WLPs. Keeping the revolver inside my coat in one of those Uncle Mike's chest holsters also helped.

Hasn't been an issue so far in SC.
BD

[Lloyd Smale]

just keep in mind what below zero does to your truck or anything else mechanical and youd about have to bet it plays heck on a cartrige.

[44man]

just keep in mind what below zero does to your truck or anything else mechanical and youd about have to bet it plays heck on a cartrige.
So what you are saying is that we should just sit inside with a drink, some snacks, maybe watch TV and let it snow????
HEY, I AGREE WITH THAT. Thanks Lloyd, good idea! :redneck:

[Bullshop]

Here at BS acres we shoot year round and very nearly every day.
If we didn't learn to shoot in the cold we wouldn't get much shooting done.
We not only have to deal with cold but also dark. We have to set up a generator and flood lights at our shooting shack in winter.
Even during the couple daylight hours we get we have to use the lights to chronograph.
BIC/BS

[Char-Gar]

It is bitter cold today in deep South Texas. The reading outside is 64 degrees.

[Bass Ackward]

BS Acres? Everywhere shooting takes place qualifies as BS Acres. :grin:

It was 12 with a 20 MPH wind while I was out this morning. I would like to say that the cold affected what I did, but I can't blame everything on the weather. Might as well have used a shotgun.

[Changeling]

My son came to visit yesterday at 10:00 am (Temp 21 Deg), he came in the house and got warm and I suggested we go to town for lunch and forget about him cutting off some tree limbs and a tree till it got warmer, no problem with him saying OK. When he tried to start his car (Girl friends) it was totally dead, couldn't jump it.
So, off to town to get a new one at Sam's Warehouse. The hold down bolt for the battery had been cross threaded at the factory. I sprayed it down with liquid wrench and was finally able to get it off with a "6pt socket".
All this to just put in a new battery, took 3 1/2 hours!! Wind had picked up into the forties or so.
He left happy, I pay for everything of course.
Went into the house poured a drink, bottle slipped !/2 gal, broke all to hell on the kitchen floor.

Now thats a bad day!!!

Now today they were calling for flurries only, Well I have 6 inches of "Flurries Only" and its snowing like hell!

[Bass Ackward]

Went into the house poured a drink, bottle slipped !/2 gal, broke all to hell on the kitchen floor.


I hope that wasn't 1/2 gal of Jack or Shine.

If it was Scotch, that's not too bad.

[44man]

Same here, cold and snowing like crazy. I want to pack up a truckload and dump on Al Gores house! [smilie=l:
I am making two stick bows out of Hickory. I got the overlays on the tips on and shaped so the strings do not slip off. Putting finish on now. They are 60# but it takes a gooorilla to pull them back.
I just hope I don't have to get the snow blower out.
Changeling, buy booze in plastic bottles, they were designed for us drunks! :bigsmyl2:

[Changeling]

I hope that wasn't 1/2 gal of Jack or Shine.

If it was Scotch, that's not too bad.


It was "JACK", I bought it for a friend because i don't drink the hard stuff, beer man, but I was so dam cold I needed something to get the blood going, SO, crash!

[Changeling]

Same here, cold and snowing like crazy. I want to pack up a truckload and dump on Al Gores house! [smilie=l:
I am making two stick bows out of Hickory. I got the overlays on the tips on and shaped so the strings do not slip off. Putting finish on now. They are 60# but it takes a gooorilla to pull them back.
I just hope I don't have to get the snow blower out.
Changeling, buy booze in plastic bottles, they were designed for us drunks! :bigsmyl2:

Doesn't bother me, it was your bottle, LOL. However I guess I will have to replace :oops:

How long you been building bows?

[44man]

Doesn't bother me, it was your bottle, LOL. However I guess I will have to replace :oops:

How long you been building bows?
Not long, made one out of Osage Orange a few years ago. I missed a huge 10 point because I forgot to aim low from the tree. He jumped when the arrow hit the ground and turned to see what the noise was. I put another arrow on and asked myself what was I going to do with him. I watched him for 20 minutes, rubbing trees and making a scrape. I already killed 7 deer that season, sure did not need a buck. Let him breed.
My friend bought these hickory staves, one for me to make both of them. $39 each is cheap. They are fun to shoot.

[Bullshop]

B A
Wrong BS.
BIC/BS

[targetshootr]

We woke up to 6" of snow and 20 degrees max today. Went out to the garage intendng to do some loading but after ten minutes of fiddling with the heater I wimped out bigtime. I like cold weather better than summer weather but I think my viking genes are old and decrepid and worn out. Like me.

[44man]

OK, guys, this might not be the right place but since it is so cold with global warming, you might take time out.
I sliced venison 1/4" thick. 1-1/2 tsp of Kosher salt, 3/4 cup of brown sugar, 1/2 tsp chili powder, 1 tsp Cayenne pepper, 1 tsp onion and 1 tsp garlic powders, 3 TBSP Worchestershire, 2 TBSP soy sauce, 1 TBSP course black pepper, a dash of Teriyaki sauce, some Cummin, 3 cloves and enough red wine for enough liquid.
I soaked the meat a day and, put in on the smoker racks to drain. Then I smoked it with one pan of apple and a pan of cherry chunks. Too cold out to dry it so I put the meat in my dehydrator to finish.
I forgot the kitchen sink but it is GREAT!