Question about 45acp moonclips

[Trey45]

I picked up a brazilian contract SW 1917 last night, it came with 8 moonclips. My question is, are all 45acp moonclips alike? If I were to buy some moonclips that are listed as SW 625 moonclips, will they work in my 1917? (or 1937 for you purists)

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/SimonLegree/P1010003-3.jpg

I've been wanting one of these forever, I got a call from a buddy last night asking if I wanted to trade for his, he wanted 500 rounds of Wolf 122gr 7.62x39 ammo for it! I can easily replace that ammo, I can't easily get one of these for that kind of price, anywhere! I drove over last night before he came to his senses and changed his mind.
I shot it this morning, it has a few issues, but for the "price" I paid for it, I can live with it. I think I need to replace some springs. This one is 72 yrs old, that's probably old enough to need springs. It may need a new firing pin too, the reason I think new springs are needed is the occasional light firing pin strike, so, it could be springs, or firing pin, or both? The pin definitely shows some shine and wear on the tip.

Anyhow, any tips, clues or directions on moonclips, springs and maybe a firing pin would be appreciated. You guys have never failed me before. Thanks!

[dragonrider]

Been looking for another since I sold my first one. Stupid, stupid, stupid.

[45nut]

how many is a brazillion anyway?

ok,, any moon clips marketed should fit and work fine,, now on my old Colt 1917 I am limited to half moons since the star is larger and the center of the moon clips does not slip over it.
Not a 'smith, not even a jones so can't offer advise on the new parts.

Will offer a bit of advise for the removal of brass from the clips, an old fashioned clothes pin.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/45nut/100_1557.jpg

works great for popping the empties out!

[Mk42gunner]

Yes the full moon clips for a 625 will work. You can make a tool to unload clips with a 6" piece of 1/2" copper, by filing about a 1/8" ledge on one ebnd and putting a cap on the other. Twist the empties out then dump in your empty brass container.

Wish I'd bought several of those when they were cheap.

Robert

[AnthonyB]

Very timely thread for me. We had an office trip to the range last week, and a co-worker asked me to buy some full-moon clips for his S&W 1917. He couldn't use the full-moon clips; the rounds wouldn't go into the chambers. He brought the revolver today for me to take it home and try to figure it out. Any pics or links would be greatly appreciated.
Tony

[machinisttx]

Very timely thread for me. We had an office trip to the range last week, and a co-worker asked me to buy some full-moon clips for his S&W 1917. He couldn't use the full-moon clips; the rounds wouldn't go into the chambers. He brought the revolver today for me to take it home and try to figure it out. Any pics or links would be greatly appreciated.
Tony

Why won't they go into the chambers? If it's a 1917, it was made to use moon clips and there isn't any reason why they won't work.

I'll share something I ran into once--I spotted a nice looking U.S. Mil 1917 on the shelf at gander mountain. Price was right, so I decided to buy it. Something looked "off", but I couldn't figure out what it was. After I got home, I figured out that some fool had replaced the .45 ACP cylinder with one from a .45 Colt New Century. I was...unhappy...and gander mountain didn't give me any problems as they refunded my money.

[imashooter2]

Old Sarge's Drop Zone, $35 per hundred delivered. I haven't managed to find a better deal.

For a removal tool, a broken golf club shaft or piece of 1/2 inch copper pipe cut with a notch on the end similar to this tool from Brownell's:

http://www.brownells.com/userdocs/products/p_352197100_1.jpg

[Trey45]

UPDATE: Received a phone call from a shooting partner of mine who has a couple of these, he had me tighten the screw on the gripframe that adds tensions to the mainspring, no more misfires!

[Dale53]

Trey45;
Thanks for the "Rest of the story"...

Sometimes people ask, then never report back what the solution was.

This sounds perfectly correct. I was trying to understand what would be wrong with this particular revolver. They are extremely reliable and I didn't buy the "needed new springs". They seem to last nearly forever.

FWIW
Dale53

[Guesser]

My late model New Service(1942) doesn't like full clips as the ones I've got are too big outside diameter and rub on frame when closing the cylinder. I ground them down and polished smooth, now they work, also, I was first using ammo loaded for my 1911A1 and had not taper crimped enough to enter the chambers in the Colt cylinder, I had to run them back thru the taper crimp die and squeeze them a little smaller. Glad I have a supply of A.R. cases, they are so much easier to deal with.

[Trey45]

I'm going to be buying a supply of auto rim cases eventually, and solve this whole moonclip issue once and for all.

[m.chalmers]

Army issued half moon clips by the millions. Most moon clips will not work. Just like the .455 Brits cut to 45ACP.

Send me a PM, I have a bag of half moons in the white I can send you. You can park them or use them as is.

[Trey45]

PM sent, and thanks!

[sargenv]

You may be able to get moons made by Hearthco. Dave Hearth cuts them to different thicknesses and likely different patterns for different revolvers. I'll warn you that they are not cheap, but they are a premium product.. I have shot with him down at the IRC and at other matches in the area. Nice guy.

[AnthonyB]

Ok, got the revolver home and just tried it. One round in the full moon clip - no problem. Two rounds directly opposite one another in the full moon clip - will go into cylinder with pressure and hard to extract. Load the full moon with six rounds - will not chamber. These are Cylinder and Slide full moon clips. Any ideas?
Tony

[beagle]

Tony....I never did like the full moons or the 1/2 moons. I settled for 1/3 moons when I had my M25s and they work well. Easier to replenish a partial load too. The problem I had with the full moons was that there was insufficient grip clearance. 1/2 moons were all right but they're h_ll to cary in a levi pocket/ 1/3 moons carry better. You can box ammo loaded with 1/3 moons as well which save time at the range./beagle


Ok, got the revolver home and just tried it. One round in the full moon clip - no problem. Two rounds directly opposite one another in the full moon clip - will go into cylinder with pressure and hard to extract. Load the full moon with six rounds - will not chamber. These are Cylinder and Slide full moon clips. Any ideas?
Tony

[AnthonyB]

Beagle:
Do you have a source for the 1/3 moon clips? I'll do a Google search but wanted to ask first.
Tony

[azrednek]

You can make a de-horning tool for a bit less than 50 cents if you have a grinding wheel. Just bend a pipe strap that are available at just about any hardware store. Bend it around a tire iron, grind a little and you're set.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y17/dnisbet/moon-5.gif

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y17/dnisbet/moon-2-1.gif

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y17/dnisbet/moon-4.gif

I got mine dirt cheap in the late 80's. I was in the uniform business and also sold guns. I didn't like dealing with the guns but was forced to as my chief competitor was nearly giving guns away to attract what we called blue uniform business. Blue uniforms to laymen are police, security, corrections, postal etc.

When Davidson's moved from North Carolina to Arizona they had a deal on the Brazilian 45's. If I bought in lots of 12 or more they cost me less than 90 bux a piece. For an additional $9.95 I could get them Brazilian arsenal re-blued and it included a set of Pachmeyer knock-off Taiwan made grips. I sold them like gang busters and cherry picked two for myself. One original and one re-blued.

My 20/20 hind sight kicks me every time I handle these. Sure wish I'd cherry picked a dozen or more for myself. If you ever want to lose interest in gun collecting and shooting. Try dealing with firearms and see how fast they become just merchandise. A short time after I got these my liability insurance re-newed and it excluded military surplus guns. I had to move what I had in stock and never ordered more. Another problem was with serial numbers. All had the original S&W numbers and many had Brazilian numbers also stamped in them. a few had three different sets of numbers. These were before the current ATF regs requiring importer's stamps and new numbers.

They were all in pretty sad shape appearance wise but Davidson's stood behind them if there was a problem with function. I returned a few and Davidson's promptly replaced them. The wood grips on my original model are Brazilian made replacements. Of all I bought and sold. None that arrived with the original S&W grips were usable. They were cracked, missing pieces or just some how damaged. I added 99cents to my cost and sold the Taiwan rubber grips with them for about 5 or 6 bux.

Several of my customers returned to show me their custom jobs. Many were re-barreled, added adjustable sights, grips of all sorts and several, myself included had trigger jobs done. After apx 10 years of use I did have to replace the main spring on my shooter. I couldn't turn the screw in any further and was still getting plenty of failure to fire.

The revolvers can get a bit stubborn using ACP brass, lead boolits without the moon clips. Have to be certain the cartridge is in the cylinder as deep as possible. If it is not completely seated the impact from the firing pin is cushioned.

Don't know what these are fetching now days but I recently turned down a $500 offer for my original condition vault queen. I haven't shot it in years but just don't want to part with it. About the only use it has had in 10 years was me borrowing the main spring for my shooter until i got a replacement.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y17/dnisbet/1917-1.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y17/dnisbet/a-1917-2.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y17/dnisbet/a-1917.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y17/dnisbet/1917-b.jpg


http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y17/dnisbet/1917-c.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y17/dnisbet/1917-a.jpg
EDIT: If you're the patient type, scrounge through loose junk and parts boxes at gun shows and you might be surprised how many moon clips will show up. Don't think I've paid more than two-bits for one. Occasionally you will find a jerk claiming it is a rare US WW1 type demanding a small fortune. Remington and Starline seem to do annual runs of 45 AR brass. When it is available grab it, it may be months before you see it again. I noticed recently Dillon is selling 45AR brass from a company named Top Brass. Never heard of them so I have no idea if it is any good or not. Last time I looked though, apx a month or so ago they had it in stock.

[Trey45]

Just beautiful guns there! Now that I finally have one I can look at those without getting a case of the green eye.

[Dale53]

Starline seems to wait until they have enough orders before they run .45 Auto Rim brass. So, do what I did, and pre-order. They don't charge you until you ship. I MUCH prefer Starline brass to Remington. If a bunch of people order, maybe it'll shorten the wait.

There seems to be plenty of .45 ACP brass around, so get some good, once fired ACP brass to keep you going until the Starline .45 Auto Rim brass comes.

Regarding problems with full moon clips. Sometimes it is sub-standard clips (I prefer Ranch Products) and sometimes it is "offbrand" brass. Some .45 ACP brass doesn't have deep enough extractor groove to work well with full moon clips. I really prefer military .45 ACP even tho' most of it requires "one time" primer pocket swaging.

FWIW
Dale53

[462]

Made one of these using PVC pipe: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=160599

It's 7 1/2" long with a plastic cap on the end to hold the empties.

[Bass Ackward]

I haven't had a hard time finding AR brass by any maker for the last couple of years. Midway has both brands and Grafs has Remington. Seems like it is out there.

[Trey45]

Starline seems to wait until they have enough orders before they run .45 Auto Rim brass. So, do what I did, and pre-order. They don't charge you until you ship. I MUCH prefer Starline brass to Remington. If a bunch of people order, maybe it'll shorten the wait.

There seems to be plenty of .45 ACP brass around, so get some good, once fired ACP brass to keep you going until the Starline .45 Auto Rim brass comes.

Regarding problems with full moon clips. Sometimes it is sub-standard clips (I prefer Ranch Products) and sometimes it is "offbrand" brass. Some .45 ACP brass doesn't have deep enough extractor groove to work well with full moon clips. I really prefer military .45 ACP even tho' most of it requires "one time" primer pocket swaging.

FWIW
Dale53



I'm on the list at Star-Line for 45 AR (as of yesterday), I have a few thousand pieces of 45 acp brass, more than enough to keep me shooting with moon clips, or half moon clips, or 3rd moon clips. I'm thinking a nice mild load of 4 gr Red Dot under an H&G 118 boolit. I've used this same load in a ruger blackhawk for plinking.

[Dale53]

Many people do not understand that ordering direct from Starline will save a person a good bit. Starline has free shipping. They DO have minimum orders but it the numbers are realistic, so not really a problem.

I recently bought a new Ruger SS Bisley (5½") .45 Colt/.45 ACP convertible:

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj80/Dale53/DalesPistolsRevolvers4Selects-0386.jpg

I was concerned what the accuracy might be with the .45 ACP cylinder. I needn't have worried. This was shot indoors, at fifty feet off an improvised rest (it was COLD outside):

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj80/Dale53/img072.jpg

I find the .45 ACP to be the most user friendly big bore cartridge of all. It works equally well with light target loads as well as more serious loads (in the right platform).

I would have one caution. The 1917 revolvers (of all makes) can be rather tender. There have been a number of accounts of split cylinders. These guns were built without heat treating the cylinders. It is not a problem if you stay with SAAMI standard loads, so WORD TO THE WISE! If you use them with the proper loads, you can shoot them forever. If not, then you too, may find a frown on your face...

Dale53

[Trey45]

Dale, that's a good looking gun, and a good looking group! And sage advice too about SAAMI standards. I'm playing it on the safe side and going low velocity, low pressure in this 1917. All I'm planning on doing is punching holes in paper, and the occasional tin can plinking. If I need faster than 750 fps, I'll grab another gun!

My Ruger is a convertible too, but it's not a purdy stainless Bisley. I do love those Bisleys, I'm giving some serious consideration to one of those new Lipsey 44 Special Bisleys.

[wallenba]

The best moon clip tool I have found> https://www.dillonprecision.com/content/p/9/pid/25534/catid/30/Deluxe_Mooncliptool_for_45ACP and a video of it sold under a dfferent brand name
http://www.mooncliptool.com/

[Char-Gar]

I have 6 Smith and Wesson pistols in 45 ACP. Three are 1937 Brazilians, two are 1955 Target Models and one is a 625. I use full moon clips in them all. The only glitch is when I use the Keith (452423) bullet in the ACP cases. The 625 and 1955s are not touchy in this regard. Sometimes, the clip will require a little jiggling for the front band on all six bullets to enter the charge wholes. With RN bullets I can just throw the clips in without problems.

I guess my favorite all time sixgun is a Model 1955 with the barrel choped to 4". I picked it up in a pawn shop in Farmington New Mexico about 20 years ago. Some fellow had it choped to hunt mountain lions. The darn thing had the worst mismatched set of internals I have every seen. A few minutes with my parts box and I had a smooth as glass sixgun. I had to change out the hammer, trigger and trigger return block, plus a few springs.

This sixgun has the ideal weight, size and power to be a real brush country packing pistol. The truth is, if I had a good Smith and WEsson or 1911 in 45 ACP it would be just about all I need. Even so I would like a 38 Spl. and 22 LR to make a battery. You could keep all the rest. I am talking practical real world need here, not just "want".

[AnthonyB]

Chargar:
Any idea what my problem with the guy's 1917 might be? It takes significant pressure to get two rounds positioned opposite each other chambered. I did not try to force a fully loaded clip into the cylinder.
Tony

[Bass Ackward]

I find the .45 ACP to be the most user friendly big bore cartridge of all. It works equally well with light target loads as well as more serious loads (in the right platform).

Dale53


I suspect that there is one heck of a lot of people that agree with this statement. The only disqualifier would be if "serious" wasn't enough BOOM to suit them.

The big thing for me is now it is all I can hold in a big bore to shoot half way well.

[Dale53]

I suspect that there is one heck of a lot of people that agree with this statement. The only disqualifier would be if "serious" wasn't enough BOOM to suit them.

With a modern revolver (the late S&W Model 25's, the late 625's and the Ruger BlackHawk Convertible) you can quite safely get 900 fps with a Keith 250 SWC. That is a much better bullet (nice wide meplat) than the original black powder .45 Colt and at least equal velocity. A lot of big game has fallen to that level of power.

My take is this - if that isn't enough for what I want to do, I pick up one of my .44 magnums or a "Ruger Only" .45 Colt.

Back to the OP post on 1917's. The probable reasons for problems with the full moon clip would be either a badly dimensioned clip OR the brass involved has poorly dimensioned extraction grooves. Their have been many producers of full moon clips and some of them may be less than they should be. I am only speculating here as the only problems I have had was some off brand range pick up brass.

Keep in mind that RIMZ clips are made in two styles due to changes in the extractor star (I know that the RIMZ are polys, not steel, but that tells me that there is a potential for different kinds of clips).

FWIW
Dale53

[9.3X62AL]

Beagle:
Do you have a source for the 1/3 moon clips? I'll do a Google search but wanted to ask first.
Tony

Ranch Products in Malinta, OH.

[beagle]

Tony....I want to say Ranch Products. Had them for 10 years or so back when I was into S & W N models./beagle


Beagle:
Do you have a source for the 1/3 moon clips? I'll do a Google search but wanted to ask first.
Tony

[BLTsandwedge]

I noticed recently Dillon is selling 45AR brass from a company named Top Brass. Never heard of them so I have no idea if it is any good or not. Last time I looked though, apx a month or so ago they had it in stock.[/QUOTE]

I ordered directly from Top Brass 6 months ago- good prices, good products- they shipped promptly. For some reason they go by scharch.com. It looks like they don't do much web optimization because they don't readily come up on a search. Not a big mystery as to why they aren't well known. Link:

http://www.scharch.com/categories.php?cat=39

[machinisttx]

Chargar:
Any idea what my problem with the guy's 1917 might be? It takes significant pressure to get two rounds positioned opposite each other chambered. I did not try to force a fully loaded clip into the cylinder.
Tony

I think someone covered this already, but....

Some clips don't work well with some brands of ammo/brass. The extractor groove on the ammo/brass he/you are trying to use may not be cut deep enough to work well with those clips. If the same problem occurs with multiple brands of ammo/brass, I'd suspect the clips are either defective, or made for a slightly different gun.

[918v]

I was concerned what the accuracy might be with the .45 ACP cylinder. I needn't have worried. This was shot indoors, at fifty feet off an improvised rest (it was COLD outside):

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj80/Dale53/img072.jpg



What load did you use?

[Dale53]

This was H&G #130 SWC cast bullet and 4.0 grs of Bullseye. I have had equally good results with 231 and 5066 (no longer made) at the same velocities. This is a load I shoot in my 625's and also my 1911's for target use. That's what makes it so dern nice - these loads work wonderfully well in all of my .45 ACP handguns.

I have equally good results with the H&G #68 SWC MiHec clone (my favorite 200 gr cast bullet for the .45 ACP). The #68 cuts a cleaner hole in the target.

For those that hunt edible small game with a handgun - these loads work extremely well on cotton tail and snowshoe rabbits and as well on grouse.

Dale53

[918v]

Thanks.

Oh, what kind of alloy? I'm liking your results. Can't get my 625 to shoot that well.

[Dale53]

Here's a typical result with my 625's - shooting standing at 25 yards:

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj80/Dale53/img069.jpg

My standard alloy is WW's + 2% tin. I size to .452" in all of my .45's. My two 625's are among the easiest revolvers I own to get to shoot well. Almost anything I run through them shoots well (under an 1" at 25 yards, often under 2" at fifty yards).

FWIW
Dale53