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View Full Version : Custom ruger 77 22 k HORNET (SUGGESTIONS)



357maximum
06-05-2006, 07:12 PM
I was going to spend some money on a 444 marlin rebarrel, but it appears as I do not need to (after some real good advise from some fellow members) so I have some project money burning my wallet.



I just prchased an action (ruger 77) to be made into a hornet based cast shooter.

Should I go 22K, 22K A.I , or other I like the traditional cartridge look of the K, plus it would seem to me easier than sizing the normal hornet, plus it just looks cool, but I am soliciting suggestions here, so speak openly. The only real 22experience I have similar to this is straight handloading a standard hornet and my .223's. And I have shot almost no cast out of either, some but not much.

Twist rates, bullet weight, designs ( I have this question on the group buy discussion " we need a 224 buy" also, So if you could look at the boolit they are designing may be of help. Thinkin I might just buy a bator to get me by in case that buy never happens, but that is just thinkin.

I need some twist rate info so my smith can order the barrel blank, he can chamber it later after I get my mold(s) so he can work of from a dummy round(s).
I know what he suggested, but he shoots 99% jacketed, so your opinions mean more to me.

Thanks in advance
Michael

Bret4207
06-05-2006, 08:00 PM
Bullshop and some others here have the skinny on the Hornet. I'd be inclined to pursue the standard K-Hornet for less case stretching and better ignition. Twist, tricks on the 77/22 action, etc will require someone with first hand experience.

35remington
06-05-2006, 09:01 PM
I would also go with the K, but it does have a slightly shorter neck than the Ackley if I remember correctly, so some of the longer cast bullet designs may seat into the powder space a bit more (if that matters to you). The differences in neck length really aren't much. It will be no problem if the guns are set up properly when they are chambered.

Twist? 1-12 or 1-14 for me, with the 1-12 being preferred. There are a lot of K reamers out there that do NOT cut a cast friendly throat, so be sure of what you are getting before you buy. This has a lot to do with the difficulty many have with getting any of the Hornets to shoot lead. Even given an ideal setup though, you still have to do things carefully when shooting cast through a Hornet.

I like the 225415 in the Hornet myself but I'm also waiting to see what Felix & Co. are cooking up for a .22 design. It will probably run a bit on the longer side to keep the BC up so that's my reason for the 1-12 preference, as that twist should keep it point forward at the lower velocities.

357maximum
06-05-2006, 09:20 PM
35


YEAH, slow and quiet is my train of thought here. If I wanna make a big boom I can always grab a .223. But I want something a little more discreet, just a tad more oomf than a 22 mag rimfire, and cast friendly. He gets some "shop special" barrels from one of the big names (cannot remember offhand) that should work well. It will only be about a 20 inch tube and of light contour. I have the traditional Varmint rigs (i.e heavy) and want something smaller (read lighter). Maybe it should end up with a 12 twist. I really want to do this right the first time around. I built a .280 rem mountain rifle a few years back and I still to this day would have done some things different.

Dale53
06-05-2006, 10:12 PM
I have limited Hornet experience but it has mostly been positive. What I HAVE learned is to NOT favor the 16" twist. Since you are talking of cast bullets, I would probably go with the 14" twist. I don't think you will have any problems stabilizing the 225415 with this twist. The Hornet is actually a better cast bullet rifle than a jacketed rifle. I make this statement based on the extremely weak case. You will likely not be trying to make a .223 out of the Hornet. Just slightly overloading a Hornet will expand primer pockets rendering the case useless. Shooting cast at 1500-2000 fps, will, on the other hand, not be apt to cause any problems with case life.

I prefer the original Hornet case to the improved cases for cast because of the longer neck. You do not need the extra capacity (which is minimal, at best) when shooting cast. I prefer gas checks with Hornet bullets - I seem to have fewer problems getting them to shoot well (compared to plain base bullets). However, I would probably end up with two moulds, a plain base and a gas check. Both of the moulds would look like the 225415 (really like the extra killing power of the flat nose - it is dramatically better than a round nose, in my experience).

All of that said, I ended up rechambering my Custom #3 Ruger to .221 Fireball just for the better brass (and it is MUCH better brass). I shoot cast with it and also in my TC 10" .221 with excellent results. Both will do 1/2" at fifty yards with 4.0 grs of Unique behind the Lyman 225415 (my #3 has 14" twist - some of them had 16" twist).

Whichever way you go, I would suggest that you choose your gunsmith wisely - someone who has experience with cast bullets. The throat is critical for good work with cast. You are starting fresh so have the opportunity to get it right.

Just some thoughts of an idle fellow...

Dale53

357maximum
06-05-2006, 10:25 PM
Dale

Could you kindly paint me a picture of a cast friendly throat. I have a tapered throat in my max (tapered lands) is that what you mean? Most my other toys have an abrupt start to the lands, am I following you correctly. I have never built a cast shooter from the ground up, not on purpose anyway. My max encore with the tapered lands works beautiful, but I am cornfused as to your meaning,.

My plan was to have a minimum length throat with the boolit just touching tapered lands, am I in the right zipcode with this?

Michael

lar45
06-06-2006, 01:46 AM
How about the 22 hornet blown out for a 270 Ren? Different caliber, but it's different.

and it's late.

Does Midsouth still have some of the 6 cavity 22 molds they made up for us a few years back? I think it was the 22 Bator.

357maximum
06-06-2006, 02:23 AM
Does Midsouth still have some of the 6 cavity 22 molds they made up for us a few years back? I think it was the 22 Bator.
__________________
They have some on order..they had a couple last time I checked, but not now..

Bodydoc447
06-06-2006, 07:08 AM
All MidSouth has on order is double cavity moulds. I got one of them a couple weeks ago. Wish they did have a 6 cavity. Do I smell another group buy?

Doc

waksupi
06-06-2006, 08:55 AM
Does Midsouth still have some of the 6 cavity 22 molds they made up for us a few years back? I think it was the 22 Bator.
__________________
They have some on order..they had a couple last time I checked, but not now..

For some reason, I was thinking I had a six cavity. Turns out, it is a two. Good thing the guys I was trying to sell it to, didn't take me up on it! I would have had to get out my mold stretcher.

felix
06-06-2006, 09:09 AM
A LEE 6 banger is too large in surface area for a 22. Any group buy we come up with will be a 4 banger in a 2 banger iron mold. ... felix

Dale53
06-06-2006, 12:15 PM
.357 Maximum;
I am currently in Utah, for another week or so, visiting relatives. All of my material is at home in Ohio. IF you would e-mail me direct, I will look up the information with details and send it to you. I do not want to mislead you, so we'll have to wait until the information is at hand.

Dale53

Bucks Owin
06-06-2006, 12:48 PM
Oh 357Max, you're breaking my heart!

I always wanted a Ruger 77 Hornet that I could have rechambered to "K" Hornet....What a "classic" varminter!
(As well as a 28" Douglas heavy barrel in 6mm/.284 for a tired M-70 .243 I own...)

You lucky dog! :D

Dennis

(If you ever decide to sell it, call me first OK?) ;)

Bodydoc447
06-06-2006, 02:55 PM
Felix,

A four cavity would double production! I see your point about the small cavities and large blocks. I'll stay tuned and be hopeful.

Doc

Bullshop
06-06-2006, 05:14 PM
Just for the record I have a 6 cav #4 NEI and it has never given any problems with insufficiante heat. The #4 is a 45gn and Walts 6 cav blocks are comparible in size to the lee six. This one is by far the most used mold I have. Me and the boys have a passle of 22 cf rifles and all like the #4.
Should be getting my CBE mold soon. Hope to send some samples for evaluation.
BIC/BS

felix
06-06-2006, 05:53 PM
Thanks, Dan. Corky and I will be looking foward to them. Please don't size and check them, because we might have to find out which gun likes what the best after things get narrowed down some. We plan on this being a full day of activity at Corky's range shooting out of an enclosed house. We will have all necessary equipment set up on site under full air conditioning. Please include a butter tub of your lube ready to go. ... felix

357maximum
06-06-2006, 07:33 PM
Dale

My digits are awiting your return, thanks in advance.

Michael


Dennis :

Do not hold your breath, when I sell a meber of the family it is usually because it was a piece of $#!^ and or I did not need it to begin with, I need this one. My other varmint rigs are big heavy and noisy, this one is for walking around and for stealth. Can you say " Here kitty kitty".?
Michael

Antietamgw
06-06-2006, 11:27 PM
"My other varmint rigs are big heavy and noisy, this one is for walking around and for stealth. Can you say " Here kitty kitty".?
Michael"

That brings back memories of 10 years or so back. I took a day off of real work to piddle in the shop with my 10 year old son on a Marlin .22 we were building and restoring for him. About 200 yards from my shop benchrest at the edge of my pasture was large white cat (not ours, owner unknown at the time) sitting on a rock outcropping. That cat liked to catch young rabbits and drop them off by the house, sometimes dead, sometimes wishing they were. It upset my young daughter a good bit to find them and I was tired of doctoring baby rabbits I couldn't save or eat. About 100 yards off to the side was a house that an elderly neighbor lived in. My '06 came out, the sight picture was perfect and I had about 2lbs out of a 3 lb trigger when I hear my neighbor calling "Fluffy, fluuuffy". All I could think of was my neighbor, a sweet old gal, seeing her cat explode in front of her eyes. Thankfully I was able to stand down in time and the cat lived to catch more rabbits. Every time we see a cat around that isn't one of our barn cats my son, now grown, does the "Fluffy" call.

slughammer
06-07-2006, 07:39 PM
No good advice on the cartridge, lots of others with experience on that. My only advice is to not worry about the fianal weight to the extreme. If it's a carry around gun you'll still need to eventually shoot it and hit something. Make sure you have a balance that is good for YOU for off hand shooting. Think about the long guns that you shoot best and what kind of balance they have.

357maximum
06-07-2006, 07:46 PM
Them cats are always lurking waiting to kill something they do not plan to eat, they are a terror on my rabbit/bird population, and quite a few have accidents every year. The feral cat population in my area is waaay out of control, but getting better all the time. 30/06 meets fluffy, that would have been bad real bad. I am the only house on my side of the section, so there is nil risk of the fluffy thing. These critters were for the most part spawned in the wild, you cannot get within a hundred yards of them (for good reason, they know what they deserve).